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| Will George Bush have a good legacy? |
| Yeah, he will be on the same level as Lincoln |
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5% |
[ 2 ] |
| Yeah, the same as Reagan |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| Yeah, but less than Reagan |
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7% |
[ 3 ] |
| No, on the same level as Carter |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| No, on the same level as Nixon |
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57% |
[ 22 ] |
| No, on the same level as Hitler |
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21% |
[ 8 ] |
| Worse than Hitler |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 38 |
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| Author |
Message |
laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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 Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| but as others have argued there's been a big increase of persecution against Muslims |
On what do you basis this? The hysterical whining of Muslim pressure groups? |
Look, I don't know about England, and I am not a big fan of Islam (or any religion, but that one is really low on my list), but in North America persecution has gone up. |
I would be interested in seeing stats....I could believe that. |
Stats. Since when did you care about stats? You could believe those? Stats can be found for this no problem. Stats on the internet can also be found for the existence of leprechauns.
Anyways, here you go.
The Article |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
| Just so you know, I thought I would separate the issues, because I thought Bush would be a relevant conversation in the midst of what is happening in the world rather than a thread that focuses on the negative of Christianity. Right? |
Right. But don't then try and say I'm changing the topic, when you were the one to seperate an issue and then take it in another direction.
Well fiveeagles - no-one can accuse you of lacking in compassion when it comes to Bushy. I'm going to have to agree with the comment assigning you rose coloured glasses. For you Bush is babe in the wood,
naive and misled at every turn. I suppose you're giving him the benefit of the doubt...It's very Christian of you.
I guess it's just another example of blind faith that you expound as being necessary to enter the 'kingdom of heaven'. So... rational arguments and reason aren't going to make any impression on this issue??
Again, if it's back to making judgements about a person, then after looking at how they treat their enemies, next would have to come how well they walk their talk. George has some big responsibilities and I can appreciate he's still part of a bigger system...BUT while you can excuse him others think that part of having responsibility means you are accountable for your actions. Zulu has a point with the execution of retarded criminals on one hand and family values on the other. I think most of Bush's detractors feel he's a hypocrite with some differences between what he says (your linked article as an example) and his actions. Personally he seems to have made some dubious choices that don't speak well to his character, and I'm not too accepting of the 'he's made mistakes and is learning from it' explanation. Repeated behaviour over a long period of time - means that that is just who you are.
Back to the media - if Anne Coulter isn't representative of the right, than I guess that means the right can stop complaining about Micheal Moore. Again it's back to the Fox News vs The Daily Show. It's just people being sensationalist and pandering to partisan thinking. Moore tops the bestseller lists giving his one side of the two party system, Coulter gives
the other side of the same system. Achieving what?? Apparently a whole country who now buy books and watch TV according to how they vote. If the rest of the world doesn't think America's evil exactly, they probably think you're all a bit too earnest.
You're probably right to say the war needs to be fought against terror ie fundamental and agressive muslim based groups , Big Verne has convinced me of that at least (through consistent and shrill hysteria), but those groups weren't in Iraq until the US Army was. Oil was.
To finish up - there's just a few specific questions I want to ask of Fiveeagles
Why don't 'true' Christians (I assume you number amongst them) like gay marriage??? Hate to be reptitive, but after the 4th or 5th time asking I'm still waiting for an actual resonse to this one. Yes, you're right ... people will want to slam and slander you for being on the wrong side of this one, but you keep mentioning it as being, why people hate Bush, and why you support him. Seems a cop out not to adress the issue. How is it a religious matter that needs lobbying for, instead of...oh I don't know...shutting up and minding your own business (of having compassion and concern for all of god's kiddies)?
I do respect christian works and efforts to help those worse off, but for the cynically minded there's always the whiff of "what's in it for them". If Christians are supposed to give willingly to help others than why the need or desire to convert?
Really what people hate is resistance to ideas and technologies that is based on blind faith to a 2,000 year old book. Christian opposition to evolution is solely motivated by the fact that it contradicts a 2, 000 year old book!!! What's so special about this book? Really the New Testament is the only bit that includes Jesus - where his world shattering notion was we should be nice to each other. The Old Testament is the Hebrew worlds creation myth, "history" and code of conduct. WTF does this have to do with different ideas? The fact that there's a brand of Christianity that allows itself to be motivated by this kind of pettiness. "Ooh they're saying something that's different to what we say...we have to put a stop to this", puts Christian opposition to Islam on the same level of a disagreement.
What I don't like about the missionary aspect of Christianity and the Christian stances on 'intelligent design' (which is a RETARDED argument, by the way, a real problem for people who try to use reason to convince what they believe on faith), evolution, gay marriage etc etc....
What it all boils down to is that Christians don't like difference - they want everyone to be like them....
Why is that?? |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| happeningthang wrote: |
Well fiveeagles - no-one can accuse you of lacking in compassion when it comes to Bushy. I'm going to have to agree with the comment assigning you rose coloured glasses. For you Bush is babe in the wood,
naive and misled at every turn. I suppose you're giving him the benefit of the doubt...It's very Christian of you.
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It's actually called discernment. "You shall know them by their fruit." In a world that calls evil, good and good, evil. It would behoove people to know what is actually good. Though I speak of Bush's mistakes, he also has a lot of character. The character to make choices where they are out of line with popularity. Like I have previously said. Why hasn't he aligned himself with public opinion on stem cell research and Intelligent Design if he is about selfish ambition? Look at how he has been mocked.
| Quote: |
| Again, if it's back to making judgements about a person, then after looking at how they treat their enemies, next would have to come how well they walk their talk. George has some big responsibilities and I can appreciate he's still part of a bigger system...BUT while you can excuse him others think that part of having responsibility means you are accountable for your actions. Zulu has a point with the execution of retarded criminals on one hand and family values on the other. I think most of Bush's detractors feel he's a hypocrite with some differences between what he says (your linked article as an example) and his actions. Personally he seems to have made some dubious choices that don't speak well to his character, and I'm not too accepting of the 'he's made mistakes and is learning from it' explanation. Repeated behaviour over a long period of time - means that that is just who you are. |
Depends on how you see Justice. Some people see social justice where criminals receive penalities for the crime. While others don't. Once again, huge issue.
| Quote: |
| Why don't 'true' Christians (I assume you number amongst them) like gay marriage??? Hate to be reptitive, but after the 4th or 5th time asking I'm still waiting for an actual resonse to this one. Yes, you're right ... people will want to slam and slander you for being on the wrong side of this one, but you keep mentioning it as being, why people hate Bush, and why you support him. Seems a cop out not to adress the issue. How is it a religious matter that needs lobbying for, instead of...oh I don't know...shutting up and minding your own business (of having compassion and concern for all of god's kiddies)? |
You don't consider this issue to be as important as Bush's foreign policy, but yet you continue to hound me with this question. You also suggest that people should shut up and mind their own business on homosexuality, but yet you are demanding me to reply?
If you really want to talk on Homosexuality then make a thread. It should be its own thread. There are others. Have you read those? |
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