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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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 Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| kimchi_pizza wrote: |
Though I admire his work, but as a "true American" shouldn't I ALSO read and study his work with some skepticism and form my OWN independent thoughts and opinions?
Actually, from the little that I have read he isn't that great of a man. His thoughts and opinions are what I call "common sense" and nothing awe inspiring.
I don't even pretend to be knowledgable in this area, just a few thoughts of my own. Now let me prepare myself for the coming onslaught of Chomsky Champions!  |
Sounds like you've already made up your mind to an extent, but all fair things to say. As you say, you might need to read more to understand what's going on here.
clandestine782 thinks he's a chemist! LOL! |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| kimchi_pizza wrote: |
Though I admire his work, but as a "true American" shouldn't I ALSO read and study his work with some skepticism and form my OWN independent thoughts and opinions? |
He himself encourages people to do just that.
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| Actually, from the little that I have read he isn't that great of a man. His thoughts and opinions are what I call "common sense" and nothing awe inspiring. |
He would say the very same thing. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| skinhead wrote: |
Aah were good fer nowt t'oother naaht.
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Aah'm gooin' doon t' pub fer a pahnt lahke. A wham bitter an'a bag o' Smith's crisps will do us soomit grand. |
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Atassi
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Location: 평택
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:14 am Post subject: |
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Clandestine wrote a nice, well thought out summary of how he/she feels about Chomsky and why. I will differ on a few points.
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| they don't have all that much to say. Lee Kwan Yew has probably written a fraction of what Chomsky has written and yet he has created more wealth (by orders of magnitude) and had more of an effect on people's lives than Chomsky ever will. |
More effect on people's lives? I would think that a chemist would realize that that can't be calculated.
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| The only thing is: NO ONE that I have ever met can design a 5 step synthesis and just know that it will work with nothing more needing to be said about it. You must TEST the synthesis. And that can take WEEKS. I have known people that worked for a whole year just to synthesize a single starting material. |
True.
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| My problem with people like Chomsky is that they have the idea that they can say something that sounds very lofty and cute and that if some people put it into practice it would work *just because it sounds good.* There is no empirical component to what they are talking about. In their mind, for example, if they talked about the idea that there should be "no discrimination" and how everyone should be equal they have this (empirically false) notion that people are all equal and that you could legislate equality. |
Wait, wait, wait, hold up. Who says that Chomsky has formulated plans that are to be implemented right away? He is providing information, both to the decision makers and citizens, so that they may make better decisions in the future. I can't believe you would miss that.
Chemists get all their information from other sources in order to plan an imperfect experiment. Although imperfect, they at least have guidelines to follow and rough expectations of the outcome. Elementary my dear Watson.
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| There are "intellectuals" (defined as: "someone whose economic output consists of generalized information") that can give you every reason that the mosque should be at the center of decision making (as well as people that can give you every intellectual/ abstract/ non-empirical reason that it should NOT)-- but this is not what turns out to be true in practice. |
I'll be a devil's advocate here. How can you be so sure that the church or mosque cannot function together along with the government? If it is so unpredictable as you suggest, then maybe the intellectuals you disagree with are really right, and you are wrong. Maybe it can be implemented in a better way. Your argument can easily be turned around on it's head.
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| So, in conclusion, Noam Chomsky has a lot to say but how much of this has a basis in empirical reality such that we know that it would actually work? |
Chomsky provides guidelines of what we should aim for, what we should keep in mind, and what we should avoid. I think his IQ does a lot of good doing what it's doing.
And the facts that he puts out there - people need to know the truth about things. He's one of the few that will do that without spinning it to protect his interests. Good man. |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| clandestine782 wrote: |
| What do you know about me, you stupid Harlot? |
Already much more than I want to. For example, that you're obsessed by Asian vaginas, that you try to brag about your education every chance you get (wow a master's), and that you don't understand what goes on in the humanities and social sciences. |
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otis
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:13 am Post subject: |
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Noam Chomsky is just another Marxist who hates America.
Big deal.
If you're a Marxist who hates America, then fine. That's your choice.
But that's all Chomsky is. Don't make him to be something he isn't. |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| How's the feudin' going otis? |
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otis
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| gang ah jee wrote: |
| How's the feudin' going otis? |
My feudin' stage is over.
I just educate. |
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Woland
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:34 am Post subject: |
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Or miseducate by lying.
| otis wrote: |
Noam Chomsky is just another Marxist who hates America.
Big deal.
If you're a Marxist who hates America, then fine. That's your choice.
But that's all Chomsky is. Don't make him to be something he isn't. |
As noted above by me, Chomsky is an anarchist. He is not in any way, shape, or form a Marxist. Marxists when in power in different places have generally had little tolerance for anarchists. Chomsky's political writings were banned in the Soviet Union because of his criticisms of it.
Asked about the influence of Marxism on his work, Chomsky responded (and here I'm paraphrasing) that Marx was an important thinker and were he still to be alive today, he would have seen that history had not played out as he predicted and would have changed his mind about a number of things. He continued that Marxism is relevant only to the study of the history of religions.
His point was that Marxism is the product of people who treat Marx's writings as irrefutable holy texts, much like Christian consrevatives view the Bible.
Calling Chomsky a Marxist is the kind of thing illiterate right wingers who haven't read anything he's written but get their news from Bill O'Reilly would say. You know, people like you, Otis. |
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ChopChaeJoe
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:16 am Post subject: |
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Chomsky is definitely not a Marxist. he does hate the U.S. government though.
As for hating America, not sure what that even means, because I love America, but I hate the U.S. federal government. |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:15 am Post subject: |
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| otis wrote: |
Noam Chomsky is just another Marxist who hates America.
Big deal.
If you're a Marxist who hates America, then fine. That's your choice.
But that's all Chomsky is. Don't make him to be something he isn't. |
Let's get this straight folks....
Chumpsky is an aging baby boomer Jewish guy, masquerading as an anarchist, in the guise of an academic, who feigns pretense to being a communist, or at least a socialist, but who in reality is an intellectually astute capitalist......
who cashes in big time on all of the above tendencies amongst collegiate youth who want to express their distaste and agitation for the status quo.....whatever that may be. |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| sundubuman wrote: |
Let's get this straight folks....
Chumpsky is an aging baby boomer Jewish guy, masquerading as an anarchist, in the guise of an academic, who feigns pretense to being a communist, or at least a socialist, but who in reality is an intellectually astute capitalist......
who cashes in big time on all of the above tendencies amongst collegiate youth who want to express their distaste and agitation for the status quo.....whatever that may be. |
This post is nonsense! You don't actually know anything about Chomsky, do you, sundubuman? Be honest.
Last edited by gang ah jee on Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Woland
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| sundubuman wrote: |
Let's get this straight folks....
Chumpsky is an aging baby boomer Jewish guy, masquerading as an anarchist, in the guise of an academic, who feigns pretense to being a communist, or at least a socialist, but who in reality is an intellectually astute capitalist......
who cashes in big time on all of the above tendencies amongst collegiate youth who want to express their distaste and agitation for the status quo.....whatever that may be. |
You're trolling in the wrong forum, sdbm. And inaccurate to boot.
Chomsly is pre-baby boom, not at all masquerading as an anarchist, certainly not a communist and not feigning being one, socialist perhaps insofar as anarcho-syndicalism is socialist...
As for the last charge, Chomsky does make a comfortable living as a professor at MIT, but if he were really interested in cashing in, he could have done a lot better. He generally speaks for expenses. If he accepts an honorarium, he generally donates it to others (as he did with my group's honorarium). He has, where possible, refused copyright on his books (asllowing anyone to repreint them without fear of or recompense to him). In other cases, he has directed the royalties of his books to a fund for his children.
In any case, his argument has never been one of obligatory poverty, but rather that wealth should be shared and opportunity to provided for all. He has dnoe his bit in that regard.
You "misunderestimate" the intelligence of his readers.
He is Jewish. You got that right.
PS My apologies for not answering your earlier pm. Got overwhelmed with things. I hope you'll still consider defending Chicago pizza, if necessary, on another thread.
Last edited by Woland on Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| Woland wrote: |
| sundubuman wrote: |
Let's get this straight folks....
Chumpsky is an aging baby boomer Jewish guy, masquerading as an anarchist, in the guise of an academic, who feigns pretense to being a communist, or at least a socialist, but who in reality is an intellectually astute capitalist......
who cashes in big time on all of the above tendencies amongst collegiate youth who want to express their distaste and agitation for the status quo.....whatever that may be. |
You're trolling in the wrong forum, sdbm. And inaccurate to boot.
Chomsly is pre-baby boom, not at all masquerading as an anarchist, certainly not a communist and not feigning being one, socialist perhaps insofar as anarcho-syndincalism is socialist...
As for the last charge, Chomsky does make a comfortable living as a professor at MIT, but if he were really interested in cashing in, he could have done a lot better. He generally speaks for expenses. If he accepts an honorarium, he generally donates it to others (as he did with my group's honorarium). He has, where possible, refused copyright on his books (asllowing anyone to repreint them without fear of or recompense to him). In other cases, he has directed the royalties of his books to a fund for his children.
In any case, his argument has never been one of obligatory poverty, but rather that wealth should be shared and opportunity to provided for all. He has dnoe his bit in that regard.
You "misunderestimate" the intelligence of his readers.
He is Jewish. You got that right.
PS My apologies for not answering your earlier pm. Got overwhelmed with things. I hope you'll still consider defending Chicago pizza, if necessary, on another thread. |
You're right about the pre-baby-boom, Chompsky was in the position to capitalize on the nation's largest demographic cohort, my mistake.
And capitalize he has done. Oh, what a wonderful guy, for being wise enough to set up a scheme whereby his capitalist earnings can be transferred to his children so as to avoid the same "death tax" simpleton Republican farmers want to repeal so that their children can reap the rewards of their HARD WORK (as opposed to Chumpsky's HARD intellectualizing).....
Another tribute to this most despicable American........ |
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Sleepy in Seoul
Joined: 15 May 2004
Location: Going in ever decreasing circles until I eventually disappear up my own fundament - in NZ
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| To write Chomsky off as some sort of half-wit seems to be ludicrous. I majored in Computer Science and Psychology and did first-year Linguistics at university and he seemed to have a large part in almost every subject I studied. He has had (in any form whatsoever) a larger impact in so many fields than almost any other person that it almost defies description... even if you disagree with his stance, give him the credit of being a fairly intelligent sort of person and listen to his message before condemning him. |
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