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Meegook
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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 Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| there is a difference between the Jesus-nut saying "gays are dirty" |
How far is from saying 'Jesus nut' to saying 'Jesus nuts should be killed?'
The Christian doctrine that I'm aware is one that accepts the homosexual but calls what the homosexual does a sin. That's no different than accepting the sinner but disliking the sin.
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| All men are created equal. |
True, but what all men do should not be treated equally. You're mixing the is and the do. What all men do should not be equally treated under the law, despite how much homosexuals have succeeding in accomplishing just that.
Homosexuals started out telling the rest of us what they should be allowed to do in the privacy of their bedrooms. Then it went to marching in the streets and telling us what they should be able to do in our face,then it went to homosexuallity is a 'lifestyle choice'. Then it was that they are not homosecuals, but 'gays', perverting a perfectly good word. Then it went to we should treat them differently than others, not equally, and a new set of crimes had to be established to treat them and other minorities differently, not equally, in the so-called 'hate crimes' and now we've arrived at where a minority is telling the majoity that they should be able to engage in same sex marriage like 'normal' people.
Last edited by Meegook on Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
...you are unable to extend your criticism to others... You baby them; treat them like 3-legged dogs who are pathetic and in need of protecting.
I hold them to the same standards that I do us... |
Don't let them get to you, BJWD.
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| The leading imam in Manchester, confirms that he thinks the execution of sexually active gay men is justified, the rights group Outrage reported. |
He is wrong in saying this. Such a response to homosexuality is not morally justifiable in any context.
Also...
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| Sara Suleri offers "life in Pakistan" as an example of postcolonial "lived experience." She reports that in 1980 the Pakistani military dictatorship enacted the Hudood Ordinances, a series of harsh laws inspired by Muslim notions. In part they dealt with rape and fornication committed by nonMuslims and unmarried Muslims. A fifteen-year-old was raped by her aunt's husband and son and because of the Hudood Ordinances and the prevailing Muslim rules of evidence, the young woman herself was sentenced to one hundred public lashes. Suleri's conclusion: "Let me state the obvious...It is not the terrors of Islam that have unleashed the Hudood Ordinances on Pakistan, but more probably the United States government's economic and ideological support of a military regime." |
I disagree. The problem here is that two men raped a woman. It is not all right to rape a woman in any context. It is absurd to punish a woman for being raped. And it is laughable to bring U.S. foreign policy into this as the primary culprit.
There. I said it. I perniciously and most insensitively imposed my arbitrary, corrupt Western values onto three (and only three) innocent, guiless Middle Easterners. I guess I am a malicious imperialist after all.
In seriousness, Said, Spivak and company have accomplished this very well: if anyone in the West talks about or dares to criticize anyone outside of the West, then they are hostile, insensitive, racist, a biggot, and, underneath it all, accomplices of a cruel and aggressive imperialist project.
And as you point out above, these same people, particularly Spivak, have ironically moved into mainstream Western institutions and insisted that only they can speak for "the oppressed," without acknowledging that they themselves have now moved into a dominating, middle-man position of power with respect to the very people they claim to be protecting, in effect recolonizing the peoples and cultures they so righteously claim to be liberating.
Indeed, look at how they make their "subjects" speak once they get hold of them, in cases such as Rigoberta Menchu's "autobiography," where many factual points are, shall we say, "bent" for leftists' convenience.
Just because quite a few people on this board, then, have been indoctrinated by these "scholars," well, this proves nothing except that quite a few people on this board have been indoctrinated by these "scholars..." |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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Meegook wrote:
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| Homosexuals started out telling the rest of us what they should be allowed to do in the privacy of their bedrooms. Then it went to marching in the streets and telling us what they should be able to do in our face,then it went to homosexuallity is a 'lifestyle choice'. |
What exactly are homosexuals asking to do "in our face"? Are gay groups demanding the right to have sex in public?
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| Then it was that they are not homosecuals, but 'gays', perverting a perfectly good word. |
The word "gay" to mean something like "sexually different" pre-dates the movement for homosexual rights, and was in fact originally applied to supposedly deviant heterosexuals, during the Victorian era. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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now we've arrived at where a minority is telling the majoity that they should be able to engage in same sex marriage like 'normal' people.
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What does gays being a minority have to do with whether or not they should be allowed to marry? If there were still laws against mixed-race marriage, would they be okay because mixed-race couples are a minority?
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How far is from saying 'Jesus nut' to saying 'Jesus nuts should be killed?'
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Interestingly, this is the same type of logic that some gay and minority advocates use to justify the "hate speech" laws that you claim to oppose.
And the correct answer to your question: quite far. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Meegook wrote: |
| Quote: |
| there is a difference between the Jesus-nut saying "gays are dirty" |
How far is from saying 'Jesus nut' to saying 'Jesus nuts should be killed?'
The Christian doctrine that I'm aware is one that accepts the homosexual but calls what the homosexual does a sin. That's no different than accepting the sinner but disliking the sin.
| Quote: |
| All men are created equal. |
True, but what all men do should not be treated equally. You're mixing the is and the do. What all men do should not be equally treated under the law, despite how much homosexuals have succeeding in accomplishing just that.
Homosexuals started out telling the rest of us what they should be allowed to do in the privacy of their bedrooms. Then it went to marching in the streets and telling us what they should be able to do in our face,then it went to homosexuallity is a 'lifestyle choice'. Then it was that they are not homosecuals, but 'gays', perverting a perfectly good word. Then it went to we should treat them differently than others, not equally, and a new set of crimes had to be established to treat them and other minorities differently, not equally, in the so-called 'hate crimes' and now we've arrived at where a minority is telling the majoity that they should be able to engage in same sex marriage like 'normal' people. |
Calling someone a jesus-nut is not in any way related to saying that someone should have harm done unto her/him, which they most certainly should not.
Ask yourself, wwjd? Do you think Jesus would care if a man preferred to love a man, regardless of why (nature/nurture)? Would he use the powers of the state to legally seperate them from us? Would he even worry about it in a world as rich in suffereing as our own?
It has no impact upon us, our our lives as heterosexuals are not impacted by what they choose to do with their bodies. Consenting adults and that. Love and relationships don't have the characteristics of property, in that what you do to/with yours affects the value of my own.
And they should be treated equally, not uniquely, under the law. In every way. And this because they are individual humans and we ought to respect individual rights.
"Hate-crime" laws, well, I share your skepticism. Aren't all violent crimes hate-crimes?
But we cannot deny that the world over gay people are having their lives ruined in a wide variety of sick and twisted ways for the simple reason that others refuse to adhere to that important rule: mind your own business. |
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cerulean808
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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BJWD
| Quote: |
| "Hate-crime" laws, well, I share your skepticism. Aren't all violent crimes hate-crimes? |
No, a mugger doesn't mug out of hate, he wants your wallet. Anyone with more than 2 brain cells can see the difference.
What a laugh, a conservative wailing about rabid antigay statements. You lot fought and continue to fight tooth and nail against the advancement of gay rights. |
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