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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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 Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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So I am glad we are all getting along now and the topic is somewhat back on track.
So Henry the K suggests a diplomatic strategy to resolve Iraq. I think he may have incited something not intended.
The Islamic world is awaiting the rise of a Caliph. My understanding, and correct me if I am wrong, is that a Caliph becomes Caliph if he unites the two seats of the Empire, Damascus and Bagdad, once these seats are united the Caliph will then petition the Diyanet to restore the Caliphate and reunite all of Islam.
Some of my facts might be hazy so join in if you know something else or simply wish to clarify my naivete.
cbc |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| corroonb wrote: |
| Saudi Arabia and Jordan both share borders with Iraq and a civil war in Iraq would probably have consequences in these countries. I assume those foreign insurgents come from somewhere, Al-Zarqawi was Jordanian. If the conflict escalates into a full-scale civil war, both these countries (or their people would) would have a problem with sitting back and watching the Shia butcher the Sunni. They might have to deal with refugees and internal unrest. |
Yes. I agree that both should be involved. That is why I said last 4 (sorry, I was excluding those two).
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| Israel is major influence in the Middle East and has had problems with Iraq for a long time. A Shiite, Iranian-sponsered Iraqi government would probably not be acceptable to them. |
Yeah, but the odds of any type of Iraqi government being acceptable to Israel is highly unlikely.
The only influence Israel has on the Middle East is:
1. It works with the Egyptian, Jordanian, and Turkish military and intelligence agencies. The two arab countries keep it on the down low though and try to keep their citizens in the dark about that as much as possible.
2. It is the one country that (unintentionally) brings Arab countries together. THe one thing they agree on is the creation of a Palestinian state. Most also view it as the most evil thing to exist in the Middle East. There is no way Syria or Iran would show up if Israel was there and the present Iraqi gov't would be adios before you can say "masalaama" if it invited any representive of Israel to participate in any discussion related to Iraq.
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| Egypt is a relatively moderate Sunni dominated Arab nation and its important that this conference is not just a Shia tea-party. The Sunni dominated states should be involved in some form. |
Well there is Syria. If Jordan and Saudi are involved (which they should be), then voila, we got ourselves a Sunni party too!
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| Egypt was the first Arab state to establish diplomatic relations with the state of Israel, after the signing of the Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty at the Camp David Accords. Egypt has a major influence amongst other Arab states, and has historically played an important role as a mediator in resolving disputes between various Arab nations, and in the Israeli-Palestinian dispute. Most Arab nations still give credence to Egypt playing that role, though its effects are often limited. |
Yeah, well I think its influence is overhyped. Show me one place where Egypt has brought successful medition to anything. The only way Mubarak and his supporters stay in power is by scaring Egyptians into thinking all the alternatives are even worse. (debatable if that is true or not)
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| Kuwait is just facetious (they don't exactly have a neighbourly friendship) and the rest (Morocco, Sudan etc.)doesn't deserve a response. |
Hence my sarcasm. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| cbclark4 wrote: |
So I am glad we are all getting along now and the topic is somewhat back on track.
So Henry the K suggests a diplomatic strategy to resolve Iraq. I think he may have incited something not intended.
The Islamic world is awaiting the rise of a Caliph. My understanding, and correct me if I am wrong, is that a Caliph becomes Caliph if he unites the two seats of the Empire, Damascus and Bagdad, once these seats are united the Caliph will then petition the Diyanet to restore the Caliphate and reunite all of Islam.
Some of my facts might be hazy so join in if you know something else or simply wish to clarify my naivete.
cbc |
Who in the Islamic world is awaiting the rise of a caliph? Bin Laden and company? Perhaps. Where is joo with his cut and pastes when you need him?
Anyway, Damascus was the capital of the first caliphate while Baghdad was the 2nd. If there was one country that included both, it would not necessarily be a caliphate.
Basically "caliph" is an antiquated term. It is the idea that the whole Islamic world (these days from Morocco to Indonesia) is united under one ruler. The Ottomans called themselves a Caliphate simply because they controlled nearly all the Middle East (minus Persia) and North Africa. |
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corroonb
Joined: 04 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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I was wrong about the Palestinians, I'm not sure what they could offer. I guess I was thinking of Arafat and his Arab diplomacy.  |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:46 am Post subject: |
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Yes, standing corrected on my generalization.
The Islamic Zealots such as Bin Laden do not fully represent all of Isalm.
My apologies, and thank you for pointing out my inaccuracy.
The Zealots are disenchanted with the Diyanet and wish to return the entire Islamic world to the Abbasid traditions.
I would prefer the Umayyads, they have a tradition of lower taxes.
cbc |
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