|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
|
 Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 1:24 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| The Bobster wrote: |
Your experiences are valid, but without knowing for sure I'd have to guess you are a western woman over here - am I going to shatter your illusions if I say that Korean men, especially in a bar, don't treat Western women they would Korean women in the same context? Hope not.
Okay, yeah, and that might be racist, too, let's argue about that for a while, why not? But I don't think so - western guys don't treat Korean women like they do the girl next door back home, either ... or if they did they wouldn't get very far, I think. |
Yeah, I am a western woman, but I have lots of female friends who are Korean and I've seen Korean guys do this kind of thing to them too. Admitedly, it's probably not a common occurence, and it usually happens in a foreign hang out type place, but yeah, I have seen Korean guys treat a Korean woman the same way they would treat a foreign woman. Usually, noting especially sleazy, just go over to the table where she's sitting and start chatting her up. These people might be more westernised than most, but it does happen.
By the way, not all the experiences I had were bad. Generally, they were harmless attempts at English, flirting or both. Once in a while, I got whiskey spilled on me, or a rude comment, not all that often. I've seen and experienced much worse on an average night in Itaewon.
| Quote: |
| In short, Koreans often behave toward us in ways they would do toward each other. |
You meant wouldn't right?
| Quote: |
As foreigners, we don't have a particular niche where they can place us and thus know how to behave towards us. Again, call it racism, or zenophobia, or what have you - terms like that don't mean a whole lot in this millieu; rather they are concepts we bring with us, and Koreans have a bunch of other concepts that don't have any clear meaning in our western minds also. |
I understand that, completely. There were times when I lived in a small town that I felt like I lived in a petting zoo for ajumas! 
I know that as a western woman, when most Korean people see me they asume that I'm either an American (please no more Canada vs US threads)or Russian. I've had Korean friends tell me that it's meant as a compliment, but. . . when I'm on my way to class and dressed professionally, it's disturbing to be asked if I am a dancer. I don't appreciate it, but more because I'm concerned about safety than anything else.
I think that yes, there is a perception that western women from any country are easy. I'm basing this on questions that adult students have asked, and experiences with male friends.Maybe we are easy in relation to Korean girls, but not as easy as the perception they get from movies and things. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 1:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Gwangjuboy wrote: |
Bobster made references to Korean men not approaching Korean women.
RUBBISH YOU FOOL! You obviously don't get out much. Even though I was with my girlfriend she was approached by some Korean men a few times. My korean male friends always scout around the bars for loose women. I concede that without a drink Korean men are more inhibited. After a couple of beers they are on heat. I have seen Korean men with more sex drive than a rotweiler dog. You obviously hang out with geeks. I agree with a lot of what Dominic has said. What is wrong with it? He has warned us all of a D.U.M.P. More Westerners should be prepared to speak out about such matters. Now I know to avoid the place when I next take a trip to Busan. To many Westerners are prepared to seek some bizzare satisfaction by peddling the usual "it's their culture," bull. Shame on you idiots. In the UK there would be an uproar if clubs in my city reacted in the same way. It was probably the bartenders nightmare to see Korean women "stolen," by a waygook so he got his panties hunched up over it. Sad coward, he deserved a lot more than a push as well, but of course he sad lackeys would probably join in. Good for you Dominic. Thanks for the post. |
When in Rome...around and around and around the wheel spins, ready to go for Round 3! Fight! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'd have to agree.. at one time I didn't think Korean guys chased down the girls at night.. but I don't think that anymore. They are constantly popping up and surprising korean girls left and right. Grabbing them and everything else you can imagine. The thing that gets me is the Korean girls always entertain them.. almost always.
Having said that.. western guys do approach alot of single girls as well.. and its true it is highly visible.. but I'd say Korean guys are pretty big hound dogs as well.. if not more. (Hard to say who is more - I'm going to say its 50/50).. its just alot more highly visible when its a foreign guy.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Squid
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
Location: Sunny Anyang
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 3:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
Back with you there Schwa, ol' buddy.
I feel like a pendulum.
Dominic, helluvaguy, get them all matey beffore they get yu 
Anyway, ash for the bar in queshchun, don't go to hofs Dom. They're all the same rouwnd these pharts.
I'd better put this one through the spelczecher. 
Yours Squidly |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mongrel
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 6:46 pm Post subject: everyone please read |
|
|
| have to agree with tiger beer and co. i asked a female korean about this and she said it has nothing to do with culture (the rule in the pusan bar about approaching women). apparently it's ok to appraoch, but the biggest problem is if the girl doesn't want the attention, it could be difficult for her to convey this to a foreigner. i guess it means approach, but be polite as well. which is what you should be doing anyway. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 8:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Working backwards ...
mongrel
| Quote: |
| i asked a female korean about this and she said it has nothing to do with culture (the rule in the pusan bar about approaching women). apparently it's ok to appraoch, but the biggest problem is if the girl doesn't want the attention, it could be difficult for her to convey this to a foreigner. |
I think this actually does agree with what I'm saying, but I'm not sure how it has nothing to do with culture - in fact, the woman is saying precisely what I did, that it's not easy for foreigners to accurately judge when a Korean is enjoying the attention.
peppermint knob
| Quote: |
| I have lots of female friends who are Korean and I've seen Korean guys do this kind of thing to them too. Admitedly, it's probably not a common occurence, and it usually happens in a foreign hang out type place, but yeah, I have seen Korean guys treat a Korean woman the same way they would treat a foreign woman. |
Again, people are agreeing with me without quite realizing it.
Peppermint, see, the fact that you saw it means you were at the table. This makes the context a non-Korean one. Okay, sure, Korean guys do behave that way in foreigner bars and probably toward korean women they see in those places, and even more likely so to ward Korean women sitting at a table with one or more western women ... goes back to what I said about how people in Asia are attracted to western lifestyles because of the liberating nature of it.
And, sure, Korean guys do goofy stuff when they are drunk, and even become "hound dogs." (Love that Elvis, fella, don't you?  ) However, I can't imagine a bar posting a list of rules for behavior that says "Don't do X, Y and Z ... unless of course, you are drunk. Then, it's okay."
Thing is, when a bar becomes a foreigner hangout, it becomes a very different sort of bar than a bar where only and predominantly Koreans go. I personally hate it when bars exclude waygooks, especially in areas like Hongdae here in Seoul where foreigners commonly go and spend money on the weekend ... but in the end, the bar is deciding that they'd rather be a Korean bar, all I can figure. If foreigners wanted to go into such a place and try behaving as Koreans do, the story would be different - not likely to happen, though, since going out in the evening is precisely what we do to escape the stresses of living in a culture not our own, and I count myself in that group.
mongrel
| Quote: |
| bobster, i didn't mean to imply that every, let alone any, korean woman would be waiting for me to talk to them. |
I was probably a little rough on you. Don't let it get you down. The novelty factor you speak of leads a lot of guys over here to think God put them on earth to make pretty women happy by means of their wonderful selves. If it doesn't apply to you, don't sweat it.
| Quote: |
| the insecure korean man thing, it's just a gut feeling i get. everyone's got insecurities though. |
Yup, we all do, but the perception you have is culturally influenced. Get to know the place a little more, your opinion might change a bit ...
| Quote: |
| why is it that they don't seem to treat foreign women by the same standards as their own? |
That's because they are quite clear about the fact that foreigners are not the same as Koreans, except biologically. Do you treat Korean women by the same standards as you do western and vice versa? I doubt you do ... in which case, why don't you?
And, yeah, Peppermint, I did mean "wouldn't," ought to have proofed that a bit better, what I get for posting here during my lunch break, haha.
I didn't mean to get into the whole thing about whether Koreans view western women on the same level as cheap floozies, haha, and courtesans, hahaha ... again, a whole different topic, though you guys can go at it if you like.
Me, I'll probably not have time to stop by this thread much over the weekend cuz, contrary to some amusing comments here, I do in fact get out a lot, maybe way too much. If you're in Seoul on Saturday, come on out to Yellow Bar in Hongdae for the get-together and watch me throw down tequila shots (2000 won) and chasing them with black russians (3900 won). It'll be fun and hope to see ya ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mongrel
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 4:54 pm Post subject: everyone please read |
|
|
| fair enough bobster. but you did say it was a cultural thing, when really it's just one more of the many problems that the language difficulties bring to situations. as far as treating korean women differently than western women, i'd say i'd treat ww more casually, not like " hey wanna f**k", but more like a mate, buddy, whatever, and kw more politely, or more cautiously. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 7:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
haha dominic thanks for the laff dickhead! Talking of G.I mates, I'm rounding up mine for a drink in Itaewon 2 nite. Fancy a rumble?
By the way, "schwa" is a phoneme used to signify a particular sound in the English language. But then I didn't seriously expect you to know that...you and your punctuation are an asset to the ESL community here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Blue Flower
Joined: 23 Feb 2003
Location: The realisation that I only have to endure two more weeks in this filthy, perverted, nasty place!
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 8:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| rapier wrote: |
| haha dominic thanks for the laff *beep*! Talking of G.I mates, I'm rounding up mine for a drink in Itaewon 2 nite. Fancy a rumble? |
Another one getting the Itaewon super punch? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wishmaster
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 10:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I can understand why they don't let foreigners into the bar. The way that most of these jokers act...they try to apply their North American, aggressive tendencies in a Asian setting and the result is a group of mindless, stoned and pathetic morons. I've seen this kind of behavior constantly in Seoul. It is pathetic. Try some sensitivity. Why don't I ever have the kind of problems that you people do? Simple. I actually RESPECT the country. I actually converse with the people and don't try to make my voice louder trying to intimidate them. You people fail because you are ignorant. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Another idoit on this site peddling the usual good for nothing garbage. "Why don't I have the problems you have? because I actually respect the country." Hahahaha! What a sentimental piece of rubbish. Don't bother posting if you can't actually symapthise with your compatriates when they encounter trouble. Dom wasn't actually "Korea bashing," but warning us of a bad bar that could easily be found anywhere in the West. If you insist on posting then at least do it when it is appropriate. After all, with that attitude who is trying to make their voice the loudest now? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
weatherman
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: Korea
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2003 1:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| I'd have to agree.. at one time I didn't think Korean guys chased down the girls at night.. but I don't think that anymore. They are constantly popping up and surprising korean girls left and right. Grabbing them and everything else you can imagine. The thing that gets me is the Korean girls always entertain them.. almost always. |
This is very true. I remember once I was leaving a nite club with my Korean friend, who has a knack for picking up girls. Very simply, he went up to two women who just left the club too, and ask them to have some soju with us. Girls said yes. And by the number of new chicks he has about him, I'd say being bit outgoing produces results for him. It is all in the langauge I believe, you have to communicate. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2003 1:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
you insist on posting then at least do it when it is appropriate. After all, with that attitude who is trying to make their voice the loudest now?
|
Yes, KJ Boy, but you see, this is an cyber forum, not a Korean bar, so nobody can actually HEAR Wishmaster's voice. It's, like a metaphor, y'know?
| Quote: |
| Don't bother posting if you can't actually symapthise with your compatriates when they encounter trouble |
Ahh, ex-pat tribalism. Puts the Korean variety to shame. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2003 1:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
On The Other Hand.
Yes I know he was using a metaphor. So was I. We can refer to someones online opinion as a "voice." My post was not an expat groupie thing as well. I was defending Dom's post as being informative about a bad bar. I would appreciate the same advice back home. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2003 8:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
Gwangju boy:
Point taken about my own literalism, though I still find the "compatriots" line a bit "tribalist" for my tastes.
So, did you enjoy the festivities downtown last night?  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
