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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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 Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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Moreover, of the people who you lump into this 'bitter attack' conspiracy, how many of them are equally as vociferous about their own government and attacks on it? Maybe brits against blair, or canucks against harper... Many of these same people who are anti-american, were and likely are fond of Clinton. They were likely very supportive and positive in their comments. What does that mean? It's a 'sustained attack' on bad, irresponsible, discriminatory, torturing, lying government. Not an attack on 'america', but on an administration and a conservative culture. Two things that happen every day and every night on American radio, TV and websites, often by far more aggressive and disgruntled people than anyone on this board.
Get a clue, professor... |
I think another way to put this is that those who would shrug off legitimate criticisms because they think they are not "in good faith" or merely an "attack" are those who want to be blind to their own shortcomings or beliefs. They prefer infallibility and ego and bluster and "I am always right" (because I have xyz degrees, I know xyz professors or I've lived xyz) and immediately when criticized, don't engage in reflection but rather -- dismiss those who'd point shortcomings out as "merely attacking", "in bad faith". To these people, the truth is nothing but a shuttle cock pushed to and fro on the table of power....
DD |
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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Those who oppose the war are legion...and many of them oppose it not for the sake of the Iraqi's...Who would now willing take away the new found freedoms the Kurds have in the North?? Well guess what , if the the Anti-war crowd had it's way they'd sill be under Saddam's iron fist...But who cares as long you can take up all your time bashing the Bush administration...? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| freethought wrote: |
| hundreds if not thousands of AMERICAN UNIVERSITY PROFESSORS... |
Now you're talking. I personally know three professors who behave as if they believed they existed in a de facto state of war against the United States govt -- and this long before the advent of W. Bush, and even longer before the Iraqi War. Not to mention those like Chomsky, who I do not know. And not unlike our friends Octavius, Ddoubletalk, and multiple others here. Let us, too, not neglect to mention my good friend BLT No-Brainer: a classic example of an unstable guy obsessing-on/hating-with-every-breath-he-takes the American President, and who thus ought to be on the Secret Service's list of people to keep an eye on if ever there was one...
Wake up, Freethought. There is ample room to criticize and condemn the W. Bush Administration and the Iraqi War. On the other hand, not a few use these as pretexts to advance other, more bitter, antiauthority, and, at times, destructive agendas...been going on in America since the Antifederalist movement. Was just talking about this with a colleague several days ago.
These people have much in common with what we saw in Seattle 1999, for example -- more than a year before W. Bush won the White House and two years or so before the so-called War on Terror...
| freethought wrote: |
| Moreover, of the people who you lump into this 'bitter attack' conspiracy, how many of them are equally as vociferous about [insert nearly any Establishment entity here]... |
Glad we find ourselves in agreement, for once.
| Ddoubletalk wrote: |
| "I am always right" |
Where is my friend Mindmetoo to shrilly denounce this as an obvious strawman...?
Ddoubletalk, who says they are always right and refuses legitimate, good-faith, constructive criticism? Unfortunately, you and Freethought are unable to see the distinction I show here.
Too bad, really. But, in any case, hardly surprising. Because it is not exactly that you are "unable" inasmuch as "unwilling..."
You protest...
| Ddoubletalk wrote: |
| ...blind to their own shortcomings or beliefs. They prefer infallibility and ego and bluster and "I am always right" (because I have xyz degrees, I know xyz professors or I've lived xyz) and immediately when criticized, don't engage in reflection but rather -- dismiss those who'd point shortcomings out... |
No. The problem is that your faction here -- including many resentful, nationalistic Commonwealth posters as well as Americans here and in America as well -- looks at America and sees only black, nothing good, nothing redeemable about it. In fact, you constantly and only denounce it. You look for new opportunities and pretexts to denounce it. Not unlike OP. And who remembers Octavius's thread on a Canadian Supreme Court appointment that he only posted a a springboard to attack Americans...?
This is because you are opposed to it. Know yourself, grasshopper. And end these denials that nobody buys but you and my now two pathetic hangers-on/rock throwers...Guess I should be flattered to have my own groupies following me from thread to thread, keeping track of what I say, constantly commenting on, analyzing, and discussing it. Hostily, aiming to descredit it, whatever it is nothwithstanding...
In any case, glad to have made such an impact on your lives and to have made it so imperative that you respond, gentlemen. (You will know who they are when they come back, attack this, ridicule it, or whatever, or bring my "name" up in threads where I do not even participate.)
Last edited by Gopher on Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:51 pm; edited 15 times in total |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Who would now willing take away the new found freedoms the Kurds have in the North?? |
Nice try, but the the Kurds have had autonomy and security since 1991, but good attempt at skewing the debate in a totally BS manner. |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Ddoubletalk wrote: |
| "I am always right" |
Where is my friend Mindmetoo to shrilly denounce this as an obvious strawman...? |
Well, it's not really a strawman, FYI. From wikipedia:
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| A straw man argument is a logical fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw-man argument" is to create a position that is easy to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent. |
It's pretty obvious that's not what ddeubel was doing. It looks to me like he was exaggerating certain tendencies to rely on (improper) appeal to authority (i.e. to oneself) in many of the arguments here.
edit: You edited your post above fifteen times? Way to poison the well! 
Last edited by gang ah jee on Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| freethought wrote: |
| Not an attack on 'america', but on an administration and a conservative culture. Two things that happen every day and every night on American radio, TV and websites, often by far more aggressive and disgruntled people than anyone on this board. |
Actually, rereading your post, it is insightful, especially where I added emphasis, above.
It is a very angry, bitter, intolerant liberal attack that has been building up and exploding since Vietnam and Watergate. And the liberals ran rampant in the mid-1970s, Freethought. Burning and destroying universities, etc.
Then Iran fell, Somoza fell, and the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, to name but three sensational events. All in one year. The liberals under Carter and Frank Church had unilaterally abandoned the Panama Canal -- not to mention the two key anticommunist American allies mentioned above -- gutted CIA's capabilities (not only destroying its covert ops capacity but wiping out its intelligence-gathering nets in favor of overhead assets in one fell swoop) and reduced defense spending across the board.
Meanwhile, French arms-sales drastically increased, taking markets liberal Americans had forced American arms dealers to unilaterally abandon, especially re: France's Mirage, which was able to make an impressive showing in Israel 1973. And, at the same time, Soviet defense spending increased, including a new strategic air-lift capability and, for the first time, aircraft carriers.
Then American conservatives won and retook the government, throwing liberals and their bad leadership out (conservatives are no better, Freethought: just as Truman led us into Korea and LBJ led us into Vietnam so, too, has W. Bush led us into Iraq). The so-called Reagan Revolution. Backlash against what the New Deal/Great Society-era had degenerated into. That is why, for example, Clinton stands somewhat to the right of Nixon, whose presidency occurred in the long liberal era, from FDR to the middle of Carter's term, even though conservatives feared Clinton might herald the Reagan-era's dethronement and a return to a liberal era. Thus they attacked him just as rabidly as you and your correligionists here attack W. Bush and co.
So part of this is simply that liberals cannot stand being on the outside looking in anymore than conservatives can. Confirms my own impression, however, that what we see is analogous to a poor sport who cannot stand losing, throwing his tantrum on the court, etc., etc. |
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freethought
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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gopher,
you have too much time on your hands, and your post is essentially irrelevant, again.
I'm not taking about Carter, Somosa, Iran or any of that. Nor are really 90% of these liberals you like to characterize. I'm talking about the PRESENT-DAY Bush admin and things like O'reilly, the PFNAC and AEI, evangelicals etc. I/we are talking about disastrous policy, both foreign and domestic, along with the violation of rights and freedoms.
All of these are valid and important criticisms. Most of the people making them on this board aren't part of a 'cycle', nor were they alive/conscious for many of the things you mentioned in your post. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| freethought wrote: |
| I'm not taking about Carter, Somosa [sic], Iran or any of that. Nor are really 90% of these liberals you like to characterize. I'm talking about the PRESENT-DAY [W.] Bush [A]dmin and things like O'[R]eilly, the PFNAC and AEI... |
In other words: you are fully embracing "presentist" bias and focusing on right-wing actors and then generalizing that they represent everything to the right of you.
And no, Freethought, you are not talking about the W. Bush Administration and its foreign policies, you are talking about the 1812 War, Vietnam, and everything else about American history -- as I said, whereever a pretext occurs.
Get a grip, you antiAmerican scumbag. |
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freethought
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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presentist... what a wonderful word. Anti-American, even better word.
Are you really this anal? if so, you should hook up with Octavius and he can pound your ass for a while. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| freethought wrote: |
Are you really this anal? if so, you should hook up with Octavius and he can pound your ass for a while. |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| freethought wrote: |
Are you really this anal? if so, you should hook up with Octavius and he can pound your ass for a while. |
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Oooh yeah, that is not cool. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| freethought wrote: |
| Are you really this anal? if so, you should hook up with Octavius and he can pound your ass for a while. |
You know what you moron...?
I am not homosexual, but if I were there is no one I can think I might be more intersted in hooking up with than Octavius.
Cannot stand his polictics but do find him cool. Sounds like many a woman I have dated. 
How about them apples...?
Oh yeah: I think you owe Octavius an apology. That was way out of line. |
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freethought
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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don't know about apples... too presentist for my liking. I prefer to think of seeds and trees, because I don't like the present, i prefer to think of the past, the future and the post-modern of everything.... and I'm the moron somehow out of all this.
It's ok boys, don't worry if you have cancer or aids, or if the building is on fire. That's only in the present, and the present doesn't matter.
What other nuggets of insight do you have for us today, professor? |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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freethought wrote:
Are you really this anal? if so, you should hook up with Octavius and he can pound your ass for a while.
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This type of hateful language is certainly not what I would expect from someone associated with the Liberal Party Of Canada. However, it does shed some light on freethought's usage of the racist slur "Japs" in another thread. |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
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freethought wrote:
Are you really this anal? if so, you should hook up with Octavius and he can pound your ass for a while.
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This type of hateful language is certainly not what I would expect from someone associated with the Liberal Party Of Canada. However, it does shed some light on freethought's usage of the racist slur "Japs" in another thread. |
This isn't hateful language. What about it is "hateful"? Is it not what homosexual males, in part, do? Maybe not the most tasteful thing to say, but far from hateful. And Japs is racist? Seems to me "Japs" is short for Japanese much like Brits is short for British, or Canucks for Canadians. PC run amock I'd say.
A while back I made a comment about people using Krauts for Germans...and everyone told me that it was OK. Why is it only racist for some people to be called names? |
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