Korean Job Discussion Forums

[postfundie]

[tomato]

[postfundie]

tomato

of the people who have said that you are paranoid, how many of them are westerners who are actually studying this language seriously??

[tomato]

I have wondered the same thing myself.
Some of them are Westerners on this forum who SAY they are studying the language seriously.

[mrgiles]

the person i consider my best friend in korea and probably the world can't even speak english these days. we've been friends for about 7 years. we talk entirely in korean.

[tomato]

And you're in Seoul?
Call an ambulance! I'm about to have a heart attack!

[mrgiles]

lol. yeah i dunno how that happened either. i wdn't say it's usual at all. out of the korean people i'd consider friends in the west (but for some reason i seem to have lots of 형 and 누나), there are probably only 5 or 6 that i speak mostly in korean with, and maybe just 2 where it's only korean.

maybe it's got something to do with the fact that both those guys can't really speak english at all.

i know i overstated my case in my above long post, but i did it for effect. it's not a luxury learning korean; i actually find it really fu.king hard. but it is true that it doesn't help me get a job. if anything it may even be a hindrance here in korea for reasons we've been talking about here.

i just wanted to point out other reasons why it may be difficult to use korean with koreans.

another reason i find it hard to exclusively use korean with my friends who can speak english is laziness and lack of confidence on my part. if they can speak english, sometimes i slip back into my own language just because it's easier for me a lot of the time.

[contrarian]

Six or so years ago at Dankook University, one of the English teachers was fluent in Korean. The rule was we were not to speak Korean in class or on campus. He had to go to the administration to get permission to help me make travel arrangements over the phone in our bullpen office.

Overkill!

[tomato]

Contrarian, why does your university have that rule anyway?
They ought to have that rule at English Village, not at a university where some people are studying English and some people aren't.

[contrarian]

That was afew yeas ago. It always seemed a bit dumb bout thats they way the did it.

[syun79]

Don't mean to butt in on the conversation, but I thought I should throw in my two cents because I think I have a different situation...

As an American who is ethnically Korean, it makes it hard for me to get the students to understand that I am American and not Korean. I'm also married to a Korean and my parents are Korean! LOL. For me, I tell the students that I understand a little Korean (which is true, my Korean is not that fluent, but my pronunciation of what I can say is pretty close to native Koreans), but I would rather speak English. When I do use a little bit of Korean, I fake a totally "American" accent so it cracks them up, but keeps up the facade.

It may seem a little sneaky, but I find that if they think I don't know very much Korean, they try much harder to speak to me in English. Granted, these are middle school students, but it worked the same way at the elementary school. When I taught elementary school, one of the students found out that I spoke pretty fluently in Korean and from that day on only spoke to me in Korean!!!

As English conversation teachers in Korea, I understand that they want us to speak only English in the classroom. The Korean teacher is supposed to do the translating and explaining in Korean, not us. Sides, it makes my job that much easier!

[tomato]

The gavel hit the table. "The monthly meeting of the Miriam Ferguson Society will now come to order. Our chaplain will now lead us in the pledge."

The members all stood up and faced the Korean flag with their hands on their hearts. "I solemnly consecrate my life to the cause of the secrecy of the Korean language, to the infantilization of all foreigners, and to the defense of our great nation from all invading KSL students."

"Thank you, Mister Chaplain. You may now be seated. Will the Secretary please read the minutes of the last meeting."

The Secretary stood up and read from a clipboard. "The meeting was called to order on Saturday, September 8, 2007 at eight PM. The Secretary read the minutes from the previous meeting. The Treasurer and the Self-Report Chairman delivered their monthly reports. There was a motion that the Society investigate means of restricting or hampering the sale of Korean study materials for speakers of English. The proposal was defeated on the grounds that KSL students could derive the same benefit by studying ESL materials for speakers of Korean. The meeting was adjourned at nine PM."

"Thank you, Mister Secretary. Are there any corrections? The minutes are approved as read. And now may we hear the Treasurer's report."

The Secretary sat down and the Treasurer stood up. "We have received our monthly quota of sponsorship from the taxi translation services, from the Western bars, from the Itaewon businesses, and from the English language newspapers. The Society is clearly in the black."

The President smiled. "That is always good to hear. And now let us hear from the Self-Report Chairman."

The Treasurer sat down and the Self-Report Chairman stood up. "The monthly reading is as follows:

welcome-to-Korea's, down 2%
where-are-you-from's, up 3%
can-I-help-you's, up 10%
please-speak-English's, up 7%
dialing a number on the handphone, up 5%
showing the calculator, down 10%

That last statistic isn't very good. You store clerks are going to have to be more careful about KSL students getting by with making purchases without being shown the calculator."

The Self-Report Chairman then passed out the printed forms while saying, "I hope we do a little better this time. Let me remind you to fill these forms out with total honesty. You can lie before the Society, but you cannot lie before God and country."

The members dutifully filled out the forms and handed them back.

The President said, "Thank you, Mister Chairman. Is there any old business."

Mrs. 김 raised her hand. "외국인 한 사람이 제 가게에 왔습니다 . . .�

The President quickly interrupted. "Excuse me, Mrs. 김. May I remind you that the meeting is to be conducted entirely in English."

Mrs. 김 giggled nervously. "Oh, sorry. A foreigner came into my store and asked where a particular item was. I thought I was doing very well, because he asked two or three times and I pretended not to understand two or three times. But then he got out his--what do you call it, 전자사전?�

Another member said, "Electronic dictionary."

Another member said under his breath, "Oh, drat those things!"


Mrs. 김 continued, "Oh, yes, pocket dictionary! And that had me cornered. When he showed me the word on the screen, there was no way I could pretend not to understand."

Mrs. 이 raised her hand. "I had that problem one time, and I came up with a dandy solution. Instead of reading the screen, I pretended to think the customer was looking for a pocket calculator."

The President looked toward the Handbook Chairman, "A splendid idea! Did you get that?"

The Handbook Chairman made a circle with the thumb and forefinger. "Got it!"

The President said, "If that matter is taken care of, is there any other old business."

A new member's hand went up. "This is a little off the subject, but what are the reasons for our English-only rule? I know it's to sharpen our English skills, but why do we need to sharpen our English skills?"

The President said, "There are several reasons. Can someone help us?"

One member spoke up. "It helps us intimidate and overpower less advanced KSL students."

"That's a good one. Do I hear another reason?"

Another member spoke up. "It helps us induce comfort, contentment, and laziness on the part of less determined KSL students."

"That's another good one. Do I hear another one?"

"It helps us interrupt the KSL student's foreign language experience."

The President nodded. "We're hearing lots of good reasons. Any other reasons?"

"It helps us attack the KSL student's self-image."

"That's a very important reason. Any more?"

"It helps us demonstrate that KSL students are not welcome in Korea."

The President looked around the room, did not see any more hands, and then looked toward the Handbook Chairman. "Those are five very good reasons. Did you get them all down?"

The Handbook Chairman held up two fingers.

"Is there any other old business? If not, then without any further ado, let us proceed with the new business. Mrs. 장, I believe you were going to write a brief essay on 'Who Was Miriam Ferguson?' Is that essay ready?"

Mrs. 장 stood up. "It certainly is. And I have a picture of her, right here." Mrs. 장 showed the picture.



She then read from a paper. "Miriam Ferguson, commonly known as 'Ma' Ferguson, was born Miriam Amanda Wallace Ferguson in 1865 and died in 1961. She served two terms as Governor of Texas in the United States from 1925 to 1927 and from 1933 to 1935.

"During her first term, in 1925, the State legislature passed a bill which would mandate foreign language study for a high school diploma. Ferguson vetoed that bill. Holding up a King James Bible, she said, 'If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me!' It is in honor of this woman's brave and noble stand against foreign language literacy for English-speakers that we name our society the Miriam Ferguson Society."

The members applauded and the President smiled. "You certainly put a lot of hard work into that essay. Do I hear a motion that the essay be approved as read. I see a hand back there. Do I hear--I see another hand. All in favor, say 'aye.' The motion is carried."

Mrs. 장 passed the paper to the Handbook Chairman.

"Mrs. 홍, I believe you had an item on the agenda. Could you please come up here, where everyone can see you?"

Mrs. 홍 stepped up to the front of the room. "As you all know, October is the season for community harvest festivals in Korea. Last year, many KSL students all over the country visited these harvest festivals and had a wonderful time. They got to meet many people, make new friends, and learn a great deal about the language and culture of Korea.

"We cannot let this happen again. If even one KSL student gets in and out of a harvest festival without being offered bilingual help, this is a failure of the Society. So I compiled a list of harvest festivals all over the country, and I think I printed enough copies for everybody. So I encourage every one of you to visit the harvest festival nearest you, to meet as many KSL students as you can, and ruin the whole weekend for them."

While Mrs. 홍 was passing out copies of her list, the President smiled and said, "We need more hard-working members like Mrs. 홍. Mr. 조, you asked to be included on the agenda, but I'm not clear on what your item is.�

Mr. 조 stood up. "Maybe I should have explained myself more clearly. I recently learned that Dankook University has a rule that foreign English instructors are to speak English only on the campus."

There was a murmur of ooh's and ah�s. The President made a puzzled frown. "In the classroom--you mean."

Mr. 조 shook his head. "No, I mean on the campus. I don't know what their reason is, but I think it's a darn good rule. So I would like to find out what their reason is, and then, using whatever arguments they have, we might persuade other universities all over the country to pass similar rules for their foreign English instructors.

Mr. 조 paused for a moment and added a side comment. "Of course, it would be dandy if all foreigners were forbidden to speak Korean anywhere in the country, but we have to start somewhere."

The President said, "What would you like for us to do, Mr. 조?�

Mr. 조 said, "After the meeting, I would like to meet with any members who live near a university which they think they can infiltrate, and we will talk it over. Then we will prepare a report for next month's meeting."

The President said, "All in favor of Mr. 조�s proposal say aye. All opposed, say nay. The motion is carried. Is there any other new business?"

The President paused for a moment. "Next week, we will talk about our new handbook, and then we will talk about Mrs. 홍's harvest festival project and Mr. 조's new project."

The gavel hit the table. "The meeting is now adjourned."

[The_Conservative]

I got asked by the VP to speak MORE Korean to him, not less. Guess it depends on your school and adminstration. And all I ever hear from my co-teachers, adminstration or students is Korean...unless it's my class or they are speaking to me (and in the latter case it's not always English either)

[mrgiles]

conservative, i agree. one of my friends also works in a middle school, and he said that people are actually TEACHING him some korean.

tomato ur post was humourous, but i think it does point to something bordering on paranoia for the reasons i talked about before. remember that we as "ksl's" (is that what u called us?) are in a very small minority. i know so many "foreigners" here that wouldn't even dream of speaking anything more than "chooseyowwwwwww". it doesn't help our cause at all.

when i first came to korea (2002) i lived in anyang - but out in the sticks, anyang. i didn't see another "foreigner" all year. the people in my neighbourhood were very polite and patient with me (even though the kids stared and followed me around the place), and spoke to me mostly in korean - even before i learnt any of the language at all.

now the situation's changed. i live in an area with relatively many more foreigners. and i can see the difference. the people in shops etc, as soon as they see me, start to do mime shows and speak the few words of english they know, because they're used to dealing with so many foreigners who can't even manage to ask for fried chicken. can't really blame the koreans for expecting me to be as poor at the language of the country they're in as nearly all the other foreigners they see.

[tomato]