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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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 Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| Unlike the Arabs who are stuck on religious fanatacism. |
Adventurer,
I have no disagreements with the rest of your comments other than to say what a pity that the Kurds have not received any political standing previously.... but the above....
This is just nonsense. First we have most Arab nations ruled by secular governments. Let's list them.....Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, ummmmmmmm Oh I forgot a few others.... what do you mean other than to state that the people are being suppressed, the will of the people is being suppressed????
DD |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="ddeubel"]
| Quote: |
| Unlike the Arabs who are stuck on religious fanatacism. |
Adventurer,
I have no disagreements with the rest of your comments other than to say what a pity that the Kurds have not received any political standing previously.... but the above....
This is just nonsense. First we have most Arab nations ruled by secular governments. Let's list them.....Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, ummmmmmmm Oh I forgot a few others.... what do you mean other than to state that the people are being suppressed, the will of the people is being suppressed????
The people are ruled by secular governments but not by choice, so it is kind of meaningless except in the case of Lebanon. You don't really know how ingrained still extremely conservative ideas are in those countries. Of course, it differs from country to country and they do have their liberals, but I know what I am talking about. I've been there.
They are being suppressed to some extent, because the seculars and Islamists are both fanatical, and either the seculars or the Islamists have the gun so to speak. Of course, it is not black and white since there are various alliances and degrees of religiousity. Many Arabs are stuck thinking of the glory of the ancient Islamic empire. Syria is a country that could move towards a secular democracy, but the government is afraid that liberalization made lead to another sectarian blood bath in the country or major strife. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 4:38 am Post subject: |
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Adventurer,
I thought that is what you meant but wanted to clarify it through that contradiction apparent all across the Arab world (secular/strong arm govts vs conservative Islamic populations/popular organizations).
But I still think you are over stating things by saying these countries are "religious fanatics". Too broad a stroke and ethnocentric.
Arab countries are going through the same types of changes Europe and America went through post WWII. Slowly changing and we'd best allow them the space to undergo that change. The strong arm govts at present, in many instances, are not helping this change take place but rather, are fossilizing things into extremes. This will lead their development down a much longer path.
I suggest we in the West have the patience to see their society as one undergoing conversion/change to more international norms of rights/freedoms. But we can't force it, demand it. It is a process that they must go through themselves. Labeling these countries, "religious fanatics" in no way helps this and is a gross overstatement. They are religious in their own way and the fanaticism is something you place onto it, not inherent. They appear fanatic from the place we stand but in real terms they are in their own state of development and not something "abhorent".
DD |
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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 6:42 am Post subject: |
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Labeling these countries, "religious fanatics" in no way helps this and is a gross overstatement. They are religious in their own way and the fanaticism is something you place onto it, not inherent. They appear fanatic from the place we stand but in real terms they are in their own state of development and not something "abhorent".
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translation: Hey Mr. Arab religious guy, its ok for you to act like a moron (ie kill homosexuals, marry really young girls). You just look fanatical from my point of view you helpless little child who will mature in time. Don't worry I won't label you a fanatic. I'm a nice superior western lefty
hey dd
It would be sooooo nice if Allah could turn you into a teenage girl who had to live in Morroco or Algeria. I'd bet you'd sing another tune...maybe you'd actually complain about religious beliefs that would make your life hell...
Last edited by postfundie on Mon May 21, 2007 1:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
Adventurer,
I thought that is what you meant but wanted to clarify it through that contradiction apparent all across the Arab world (secular/strong arm govts vs conservative Islamic populations/popular organizations).
But I still think you are over stating things by saying these countries are "religious fanatics". Too broad a stroke and ethnocentric.
Arab countries are going through the same types of changes Europe and America went through post WWII. Slowly changing and we'd best allow them the space to undergo that change. The strong arm govts at present, in many instances, are not helping this change take place but rather, are fossilizing things into extremes. This will lead their development down a much longer path.
I suggest we in the West have the patience to see their society as one undergoing conversion/change to more international norms of rights/freedoms. But we can't force it, demand it. It is a process that they must go through themselves. Labeling these countries, "religious fanatics" in no way helps this and is a gross overstatement. They are religious in their own way and the fanaticism is something you place onto it, not inherent. They appear fanatic from the place we stand but in real terms they are in their own state of development and not something "abhorent".
DD |
You may have a point that they are at a stage that Europe used to be at, I am referring to the Arab countries. It definitely depends which country we are talking about. If you said Lebanon and Syria and places like that I would perhaps agree. Kuwait only give women the right to vote a few years ago, that happened in the West in the 1930s, so that is prior to World War II for the West. Turkey is more along the lines of the West some decades ago especially in the western part of Turkey. The East needs to get in line and develop more. You can say that some parts of Eastern Europe and the Balkans are also behind, so it applies to some Europeans as well. The Arab states, however, do have a very long way to go, but some countries are much farther along when it comes to progress like the UAE, Lebanon, and Jordan... |
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