Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Walter Mitty]

[some waygug-in]

Not angry, just pointing out the discrepancies in your claims. - quote from Gord.

I have read over the original posts by Catalina, and I can't seem to find these discrepancies you speak of. I can, however find a lot of discrepancies in your logic.

You do raise some valid points. Points about how we should give our employers the benefit of the doubt in order to avoid conflict. But according to the original post, she had already done that. She had been deceived into working overtime for regular pay, and was willing to take her lumps for that. Then the boss came shouting at her about filling in report cards during class time. (a capital offence in Gord's books I'm certain )

She decided enough was enough and stood up for herself. Not an easy thing to do, being a foreigner here and all. I'm sure it took a lot of courage on her part to do that.

So Gord, I suppose you are right. We should all bow down and let our bosses walk all over us. How dare those "uppity waegooks" have the nerve to stand up for themselves. Who do they think they are anyway, Koreans?

According to your logic, we should all just accept being ripped off and exploited as being part of the "greater cultural experience".

Yes, boss. Yes, boss. I'm sorry for your mistakes. Yes, yes I will accept half my agreed upon salary. Oh no, don't hit me boss. I be good waegook from now on!


Get a grip.

[Corporal]

[bourquetheman]

Gord never stands up for the teachers, instead always defends the Korean way and that we have to understand and take what we can get, and blah blah blah blah blah. Heck my wife is Korean and even SHE says that the Korean way of doing business is screwed up, including Catalina's situation. On a side note today we met a girl from England who had been fired after a week working at Kid's Camp because she has "dark skin" and the parents complained. Sure I know this isn't the same thing, but if she had posted her situation on here, I'm sure Gord you would have had SOME way of defending the school on that one. I think you gotta be an assistant at your school or married to a director as you never empathize with the teachers on this forum, instead you nitpick at every little detail and try to twist it around.
I'm sure Gord you could have (and I'll give you credit for your ability to express yourself) convinced the abovementioned girl above that she was in the wrong somehow and that she should just accpept the Korean way and go home. You're a class act my friend..................

[The Lemon]

[lesza]

[TECO]

All of you have just played into his hands.

Stop responding to his posts.

You feed the fire by talking about him

*Which is what he wants*

Stop acknowledging.

Some posters are attention whores and that's all it is.

Don't be fooled - he sits back and laughs at all the fires he's started on these threads.

Wise up, people!

[The Bobster]

[some waygug-in]

You offer some really good advice. Yes negotiation is always the better option. But how much should a teacher put up with before we say, "enough already"? Yes there are a lot of foreigners here who need to learn how to deal with Korean managers in more constructive ways.

Korean mangagers have a lot to learn, as far as treatment of employees goes. When I try and think about it objectively, I can see that a manager's job must be as difficult as a teacher's. Trying to control a bunch of whiny parents, waegooks with little or no experience in another country, (who may panic and jump ship at the first sign of unpleasantness)

But starting out by conning teachers is not the way to make things better.
Sure, the OP could have tried to remain calm and tried to "negotiate". But she, and only she can say whether or not she had reached her limits. No doubt she had already tried to "negotiate" for the overtime and failed.
Only she can say for sure what her relationship was with her manager and whether or not there was any hope of "negotiation". Some managers are just "block heads" and there is no negotiation to be had.

It's also easy for you as a man to say negotiation is possible. Some managers treat men and women very differently. I've seen this in my own workplace. I know for a fact that I was treated better than the female teacher on staff because the manager felt she could push the woman around but I wouldn't put up with it.

Yes, I've seen some waeguks fly off the handle and do embarassing, stupid things. But what did their managers do to provoke them? If managers want teachers to act rationally, professionally and honestly, they have to be willing to treat teachers honestly, professionally, courteously etc. The manager of that school (the one described by the OP) is only reaping what he sowed. If he hadn't tried to cheat the teacher before, then perhaps she would have been more willing to accept blame for her actions and try and keep things calm.

When mangagers go out of their way to be "cheapskates", they deserve what they get.

I doubt very much that there is any chance that Catalina would go back and work for that school now. Why on Earth would she? I wouldn't. Be honest now, would you?

Cheers

[Arthur Fonzerelli]

[Arthur Fonzerelli]

[Catalina]

I want to thank all of you for your posts. Alot of what you have said has been very, very helpful. And I have given alot of thought to the advice with which I do not agree. I have not been at the school for three days and, while packing up my apartment and looking for a new job in a different country, I have had time to think about how to get out of this mess.

Here is a bit of history about me and the school.

1. I found out I would teach kindy despite a verbal promise to teach elementary and middle school students. But I tried to do it. Liked the kids and hated the prep but I kept at it. After a while I tried to calmly negotiate a Korean assistant . The employer agreed but the assistant never materialized.

2. A few months later I was offered a uni job. When I tried to calmly negotiate a release letter all h*ll broke loose. Shouting, screaming, internet cut off. I gave that a few days to blow over then sat down with the director and was denied a release letter. There were no recuiter fees as a friend had found me the job. I offered to return the airfare for flying me here. No release letter. I found them another foreign teacher with experience. No release letter. There was no room to manoever. The director was not giving on any part. It was irrational behaviour. But I stayed at the school.

3. Overtime issue. Contract states I work 30 classroom hours per week. When I was scheduled for 35 classes in August I confirmed that I would be paid overtime. No. The director told me that 30 classroom hours means 30 hours even though our classes are 50 minutes long. 35 classes are alot. Keep in mind I am not paid for prep, report cards, fieldtrips, helping students on breaks. When I told the director this was really unfair they offered to go to court to fight it out - I had to pay 50% of the costs of the lawsuit. The overtime was not worth potiential of losing at court. So, I SWALLOWED HARD and did the work.

4. The report card issue. Only in this last month, when I was working those long hours, did I multi-task in class. The kids have done word searches before, they were working in teams, and I was there to answer questions. The first and last time I heard this was unacceptable was during the shouting match the director and I had this week.

I feel like the frog in the pot of water. Slowly as the temperature increases the frog does not notice and ends up being boiled alive.

Yes - I agree with you that yelling (while it felt great and I do not regret it) may not have been the best option but I am fried this month - really exhausted. Every time I calmly negotiate with the school I loose. I think the school is not interested in making lasting deals that create win-win situations for both parties. The school is looking to cut costs and has a selective memory about its obligations to its employees.

I am not a "first time out of the nest, never been to a foreign country before" girl. In Canada, I have experience negotiating contracts in a labour relations setting (where some yelling is normal). I have worked as an Ombudsman at a community college. I have taken conflict resolution courses. I recognize the dynamics here.

At this school, they do not follow the contract. I have not negotiated where a signed agreement is constantly opened up and re-interpreted. I am supposed to know things that are not in the contract and I am not told about. This is a precarious setting for deal making.

My experience is that negotiation only works when both parites hold some power and clearly we are not two equal parties at the table. The school holds my visa and my options are limited. They can refuse a release letter and I have no grounds to fight it. Going to court is not an option.

My bottom line is that I will not return to work for the school. That's enough. I am not discounting any other hagwon, nor am I angry with Korea or Koreans. My experience is that these people are bad managers and my life is too short to suffer through bad managers.

So, now how do I find a way out of this. I agree completely that saving face for the director is important. Keep in mind that I do not want to complete my contract with this school and I am not seeking another position in Korea but I would like the option to return in the future. How to do that?

I am asking for helpful information here.

Perhaps I should call the diretor and arrange a meeting. And tell them....?

I'll leave if they give me some or all of the following:
Letter of Release, a Letter of Reference, a portion of pay in lieu of notice, my wages.

And they say....NO, go to court.

And I threaten to report them to all the embassies, blacklists I can find?

What are my cards here? I can withhold my labour which they need. Do I offer to return for a few weeks until they find a replacement and give me some of the above list?

How do I negotiate this?

Catalina

[TECO]

Catalina:

Walk away.

Cut your loses and pursue another opportunity somewhere else.

Don't spend another second of your life dealing with these people.

Yup, you may loose money but be over it and move on.

ps - I'd do the above but still black list them at my Embassy and anywhere else I could.

Like I said, Taiwan is full of opportunities!

[Skarp]

I am not in Korea yet ( will be soon)

This is the kind of story that scares me. Catalina seems to have been pushed around and treated very unreasonably.

Report cards in class may have been a mistake. It's not really fair on the students in some peoples eyes. Actually - leaving students alone to work is sometimes a very good idea, but the boss is not going to see it that way.

Anyway - if not the report cards, then something else would have done it. I have read a few threads where a teacher is pushed to breaking point then something trivial tips them over the edge - the frog in the hot water analogy is very apt.

Teachers don't seem to get a lot of respect in the workplace anywhere in the world - but I suppose all employees in Korea have to shut up and put up with a lot of rubbish from overbearing bosses.

I had a very similar nightmare experience in a College in the UK. Very poor and hazy management structure. A senior coleague was an idiot and rude to everyone - I was shouted at numerous times for disagreeing and refusing to work overtime. In the end I left. Annoying cos the pay and conditions where excellent.

So - it can happen anywhere.

Since the director is in breach of the contract on a few counts - can't she resign and sign her own letter of release? Seems like the boss has overstepped the mark? Or is the contract too vague to enforce the breaches?

I guess Catalina would lose money anyway.

It must be good practice to save a reserve of emergency money at all times - enough for two months or so?

Well - not sure this is a very informative post - just a letter of support.

I agree in principle with the poster who said compromise, negotiate etc. Very sound advice - just difficult in the heat of the moment.

Anyway - the water in the pan is getting warm - time to jump out...


Skarp

[TECO]