|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Grimalkin
Joined: 22 May 2005
|
 Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:04 am Post subject: |
 |
|
philipjames
| Quote: |
| A charming little mini-Afghanistan in Western Europe. |
Amazing how these little hotbeds of terrorism crop up uncaused around the world! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Grimalkin
Joined: 22 May 2005
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| philipjames wrote: |
| There was definitely discrimination in the South. There was also discrimination in the North. But while the Nat. population in the North grew to the extent that they felt empowered to confront the State in 1969, the Protestant population in the South was dwindling away. The Irish State made no effort to reverse or stem this tide. Why would they? Ireland was to be Catholic and gaelic; a tidy little mono-ethnic sectarian state. No wonder Ulster Protestants were less than enthusiastic about joining the South. And when religious Roman Catholics started bombing Protestant towns and neighborhoods after 1970 the Republic, rather than arresting them, gave them a free haven to carry out their operations. A charming little mini-Afghanistan in Western Europe. The 1916 declaration talked about 'honouring all the childen of the nation equally." Subsequent events showed that actions spoke louder than words. |
No doubt the Ulster protestants would have preferred it during the time of the penal laws in Ireland when Irish catholics were by law forbidden under pain of death to practice their religion as well as forbidden to attend schools, own property and when through willfull neglect a protestant administration allowed over one million Irish catholics die in the so-called famine.
And you're suprised that there was a backlash when an Irish catholic adminstration came to power.
The most suprising thing is that it was so restrained.
It might be worth going back from 1911 an equal period in history to the time before the famine and see what the proportion of catholic to protestant was before the population was reduced to a little over three million from a pre-famine figure of over eight million.
However unwecoming the Free State government was at least they weren't starving people out of the country! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yea lets not forget that until the 90s Ireland had very high emigration. I'm sure more than 200,000 catholics left Ireland between 1906 and 1921 also. Maybe those figures are skewed a bit.
Especialy as the first world war*, Easter Rising and War of independence were in that period. Alot of reasons to leave, not all discrimiation. I'm not doubting there was discrimination though. You can't however say, 200,000 left because of discrimination unless you have ruled out other reasons as well.
*
| Quote: |
| About 140,000 enlisted in Ireland during the war |
I don't know how many of them were protestant or protestant from what would later became the south. The web page is interesting though..
http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/eng/index.asp?docID=2517 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Grimalkin
Joined: 22 May 2005
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| philipjames wrote: |
| There was definitely discrimination in the South. There was also discrimination in the North. But while the Nat. population in the North grew to the extent that they felt empowered to confront the State in 1969, the Protestant population in the South was dwindling away. The Irish State made no effort to reverse or stem this tide. Why would they? Ireland was to be Catholic and gaelic; a tidy little mono-ethnic sectarian state. No wonder Ulster Protestants were less than enthusiastic about joining the South. And when religious Roman Catholics started bombing Protestant towns and neighborhoods after 1970 the Republic, rather than arresting them, gave them a free haven to carry out their operations. A charming little mini-Afghanistan in Western Europe. The 1916 declaration talked about 'honouring all the childen of the nation equally." Subsequent events showed that actions spoke louder than words. |
The leaders of the 1916 revolution may have been a little hampered in their pursuit of the ideal of 'honouring all the childen of the nation equally' by the fact that they were executed shortly after that declaration. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bingo
Joined: 22 Jun 2006
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Of those two authors one is a self-hating Ulster Protestant. The book cited is extremely critical of Ulster Protestants. The other author, Donald Akenson, is a Canadian (of Swedish ancestry). So they're hardly biased in favour of the Ulster Prod. cause.
And concerning the penal laws, they applied equally to Protestants who weren't Church of Ireland. Why do you think such vast numbers of Ulster Presbyteriand fled to the 13 Colonies and enthusiastically took up arms in support of the American Revolution? The fiction that the penal laws only applied to Catholics is just that, fiction. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Grimalkin
Joined: 22 May 2005
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Bingo wrote: |
And concerning the penal laws, they applied equally to Protestants who weren't Church of Ireland. Why do you think such vast numbers of Ulster Presbyteriand fled to the 13 Colonies and enthusiastically took up arms in support of the American Revolution? The fiction that the penal laws only applied to Catholics is just that, fiction. |
Doesn't it strike you as a little bit one-sided to criticise the Free State Government for being unwecolming to protestants and not criticise their own government who had previously, by your own accounts, actually passed legislation to discriminate against them?
You also seem to have a very twisted view of what constitutes equality!
| Quote: |
| The main intended effect of the Penal Laws was to ease the conversion or dispossession of the landed Catholic population. In 1641 Catholics had owned 60% of land in Ireland and by 1776 Catholic land ownership in Ireland stood at only 5%. |
Of the eighteen penal laws only two applied to presbyterians and they were not subject to the laws regarding dispossession of property, disenfranchisement, and total denial of access to education.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_Laws_(Ireland)[ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
