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Abe Scrap
Joined: 01 May 2011
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 Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 8:07 am Post subject: |
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So, just to recap, here are the
10 Facts That Prove The Bin Laden Fable Is a Contrived Hoax
Merely a week after President Obama announced the death of Osama Bin Laden, there is literally a deluge of evidence that clearly indicates the whole episode has been manufactured for political gain and to return Americans to a state of post-9/11 intellectual castration so that they can be easily manipulated in the run up to the 2012 election. Here are ten facts that prove the Bin Laden fable is a contrived hoax�.
1) Before last Sunday�s raid, every intelligence analyst, geopolitical commentator or head of state worth their salt was on record as stating that Osama Bin Laden was already dead, and that he probably died many years ago, from veteran CIA officer Robert Baer, to former Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, to former FBI head of counterterrorism Dale Watson...
2) The official narrative of how the raid unfolded completely collapsed within days of its announcement...
3) The alleged body of Bin Laden was hastily dumped in the sea to prevent any proper procedure of identification. The White House claimed this was in accordance with normal Islamic burial rituals, however numerous Muslim scholars all over the globe disputed this claim, pointing out that Muslims can only be buried at sea if they die at sea...
4) Despite the fact that the White House released �situation room� photos which purported to show Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden and the rest of Obama�s security staff watching the raid which killed Bin Laden live, it was later admitted by CIA director Leon Panetta that Obama could not have seen the raid because the live feed was cut off before the Navy SEALS entered the compound...
5) As even mainstream journalists began to cast suspicion on the official narrative behind the raid, the media reported that Al-Qaeda itself had confirmed every detail of Obama�s address the the nation. However, the conduit for such a claim was in fact an organization called SITE, which is a notorious Pentagon propaganda front run by the daughter of an Israeli spy that has been caught on numerous occasions releasing fake cartoonish �Al-Qaeda� videos at the most politically expedient times for both the Bush and Obama administrations. (See previous post.)...
6) Almost every single neighbor that lived near the alleged Bin Laden compound in Abbottabad that was interviewed by news reporters said with absolute certainty that they had never seen Bin Laden and that they knew of no evidence whatsoever to suggest he lived there...
7) The videos released by the White House this past weekend which purport to show Osama Bin Laden making Al-Qaeda tapes in October-November 2010 are almost identical to footage first released by Pentagon front group SITE nearly four years ago...
8: Despite the fact that numerous neo-cons came out on the days after the alleged raid to erroneously assert that torturing terror suspects at Guantanamo Bay led to the discovery of Bin Laden, Osama himself, the supposed world�s most wanted terrorist and a treasure trove of terror information, despite the fact that he was unarmed, was not taken in for questioning, he was instantly shot in the head according to the official narrative...
9) The US government has been caught on several occasions within the past decade staging military operations for the purposes of generating contrived, pro-war sentiment amongst the American public. Both the �rescue� of Jessica Lynch and the death of Pat Tillman were complete fables, scripted and staged at complete odds with the truth and unleashed on Americans as part of a psychological warfare offensive to elicit support for the war on terror, almost identical to what we�re seeing now with the Bin Laden sideshow...
10) Despite the fact that Obama announced last Sunday on live television that the world was now �safer� because Bin Laden was dead, his administration, with the aid of the fearmongering mass media, instantly seized upon the situation to terrify Americans into being afraid of imminent �reprisal� terror attacks inside the United States, later claiming that Bin Laden had formulated an �aspirational rather than operational� plan to derail US trains that travel over 500mph, although no trains in the US can actually travel at such speeds...
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Let me save you the trouble of attacking the messenger. Everyone knows you'll do that. Now, refute the substance. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 11:02 am Post subject: |
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Okay, I'll fisk this. Best to give it the summary dismissals it deserves and move on.
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1) Before last Sunday�s raid, every intelligence analyst, geopolitical commentator or head of state worth their salt was on record as stating that Osama Bin Laden was already dead, and that he probably died many years ago, from veteran CIA officer Robert Baer, to former Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, to former FBI head of counterterrorism Dale Watson...
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Pundits got it wrong. So its Tuesday already?
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2) The official narrative of how the raid unfolded completely collapsed within days of its announcement... |
Yes, in the age of the internet and twitter, secrets were divulged.
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| 3) The alleged body of Bin Laden was hastily dumped in the sea to prevent any proper procedure of identification. The White House claimed this was in accordance with normal Islamic burial rituals, however numerous Muslim scholars all over the globe disputed this claim, pointing out that Muslims can only be buried at sea if they die at sea... |
The US violated Islamic law. *shock*
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| 4) Despite the fact that the White House released �situation room� photos which purported to show Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden and the rest of Obama�s security staff watching the raid which killed Bin Laden live, it was later admitted by CIA director Leon Panetta that Obama could not have seen the raid because the live feed was cut off before the Navy SEALS entered the compound... |
Journalists got something wrong. So its Tuesday already?
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| 5) As even mainstream journalists began to cast suspicion on the official narrative behind the raid, the media reported that Al-Qaeda itself had confirmed every detail of Obama�s address the the nation. However, the conduit for such a claim was in fact an organization called SITE, which is a notorious Pentagon propaganda front run by the daughter of an Israeli spy that has been caught on numerous occasions releasing fake cartoonish �Al-Qaeda� videos at the most politically expedient times for both the Bush and Obama administrations. (See previous post.)... |
What?
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| 6) Almost every single neighbor that lived near the alleged Bin Laden compound in Abbottabad that was interviewed by news reporters said with absolute certainty that they had never seen Bin Laden and that they knew of no evidence whatsoever to suggest he lived there... |
Yes, well, Bin Laden was the most wanted man on earth, so he kept out of sight.
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| 7) The videos released by the White House this past weekend which purport to show Osama Bin Laden making Al-Qaeda tapes in October-November 2010 are almost identical to footage first released by Pentagon front group SITE nearly four years ago... |
Almost identical? You don't say.
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| 8: Despite the fact that numerous neo-cons came out on the days after the alleged raid to erroneously assert that torturing terror suspects at Guantanamo Bay led to the discovery of Bin Laden, Osama himself, the supposed world�s most wanted terrorist and a treasure trove of terror information, despite the fact that he was unarmed, was not taken in for questioning, he was instantly shot in the head according to the official narrative... |
People who weren't there described the incident wrong. It happens. Everyday. On the television.
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| 9) The US government has been caught on several occasions within the past decade staging military operations for the purposes of generating contrived, pro-war sentiment amongst the American public. Both the �rescue� of Jessica Lynch and the death of Pat Tillman were complete fables, scripted and staged at complete odds with the truth and unleashed on Americans as part of a psychological warfare offensive to elicit support for the war on terror, almost identical to what we�re seeing now with the Bin Laden sideshow... |
The US gov't lies. Of course, Al Qaeda admitted Bin Laden was dead. But they lie, too! Ergo, they are both lying now!
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| 10) Despite the fact that Obama announced last Sunday on live television that the world was now �safer� because Bin Laden was dead, his administration, with the aid of the fearmongering mass media, instantly seized upon the situation to terrify Americans into being afraid of imminent �reprisal� terror attacks inside the United States, later claiming that Bin Laden had formulated an �aspirational rather than operational� plan to derail US trains that travel over 500mph, although no trains in the US can actually travel at such speeds...[/list] |
Number 10, like all the previous numbers before it, do nothing to prove that Osama Bin Laden is still alive, or was already dead. |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| 2) The official narrative of how the raid unfolded completely collapsed within days of its announcement |
Definte "completely collapsed".
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| 5) As even mainstream journalists began to cast suspicion on the official narrative behind the raid, the media reported that Al-Qaeda itself had confirmed every detail of Obama�s address the the nation. However, the conduit for such a claim was in fact an organization called SITE, which is a notorious Pentagon propaganda front run by the daughter of an Israeli spy that has been caught on numerous occasions releasing fake cartoonish �Al-Qaeda� videos at the most politically expedient times for both the Bush and Obama administrations. |
Source? (outside of prision planet/Alex Jones)
By the way, what about the Taliban? Any ides about their retribution attacks in Pakistan? |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Abe Scrap wrote: |
So, just to recap, here are the
10 Facts That Prove The Bin Laden Fable Is a Contrived Hoax
Merely a week after President Obama announced the death of Osama Bin Laden, there is literally a deluge of evidence that clearly indicates the whole episode has been manufactured for political gain and to return Americans to a state of post-9/11 intellectual castration so that they can be easily manipulated in the run up to the 2012 election. Here are ten facts that prove the Bin Laden fable is a contrived hoax�.
1) Before last Sunday�s raid, every intelligence analyst, geopolitical commentator or head of state worth their salt was on record as stating that Osama Bin Laden was already dead, and that he probably died many years ago, from veteran CIA officer Robert Baer, to former Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, to former FBI head of counterterrorism Dale Watson...
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EVERY analyst, commentator and head of state. Wow, every single one. Ok.....Oh only the one's "worth their salt"...the one's who come from your political/conspiracy base. Ok....  Whereas one can easily drum up a list quite longer than 5 people (the 3 mentioned above, AJ and SP) who say he was still alive.
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| 2) The official narrative of how the raid unfolded completely collapsed within days of its announcement... |
Such as.....? And is it really surprising that the government decides what information to release about a highly classified, stealth operation involving our most bad ass troops?
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| 3) The alleged body of Bin Laden was hastily dumped in the sea to prevent any proper procedure of identification. The White House claimed this was in accordance with normal Islamic burial rituals, however numerous Muslim scholars all over the globe disputed this claim, pointing out that Muslims can only be buried at sea if they die at sea... |
This seems to be actual evidence that they did in fact kill him and bury him at sea. Seeing as how they are tiptoeing around the photos because they don't want to incite further violence. So they denied OBL supporters a long drawn out trial and a grave. And they can also claim the moral high ground by doing it in 24 hours.
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| 4) Despite the fact that the White House released �situation room� photos which purported to show Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden and the rest of Obama�s security staff watching the raid which killed Bin Laden live, it was later admitted by CIA director Leon Panetta that Obama could not have seen the raid because the live feed was cut off before the Navy SEALS entered the compound... |
This story about the video feed and the situation room has never changed. News flash - TV's can be used to show other information besides live video! You can use a TV to double as a computer monitor. It's quite reasonable to think he was viewing satellite photos, listening to audio, receiving updates from the command center. Or, maybe the picture was taken while they were watching video leading up to the assault. You don't know at what point that picture was taken. Or maybe like in VQ's news sources, they lacked live video so instead BHO and his team watched a scene from the Patriot Games. I kid, I kid.
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| 5) As even mainstream journalists began to cast suspicion on the official narrative behind the raid, the media reported that Al-Qaeda itself had confirmed every detail of Obama�s address the the nation. However, the conduit for such a claim was in fact an organization called SITE, which is a notorious Pentagon propaganda front run by the daughter of an Israeli spy that has been caught on numerous occasions releasing fake cartoonish �Al-Qaeda� videos at the most politically expedient times for both the Bush and Obama administrations. (See previous post.)... |
I'm not too familiar with SITE, can you show me some evidence that it was them that released the AQ confirmation statements?
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| 6) Almost every single neighbor that lived near the alleged Bin Laden compound in Abbottabad that was interviewed by news reporters said with absolute certainty that they had never seen Bin Laden and that they knew of no evidence whatsoever to suggest he lived there... |
Ya don't say. Either A) people knew he was there and are obviously not going to go around telling everyone they did because they will be rounded up and killed for supporting terrorism and embarrassing Pakistan or B) they really didn't know he was there. This is not evidence of anything.
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| 7) The videos released by the White House this past weekend which purport to show Osama Bin Laden making Al-Qaeda tapes in October-November 2010 are almost identical to footage first released by Pentagon front group SITE nearly four years ago... |
You mean it looks like the same guy in the same place? Well that kind of goes to prove the entire idea that the videos are in fact real, because it was the same guy in the same place for years.
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| 8: Despite the fact that numerous neo-cons came out on the days after the alleged raid to erroneously assert that torturing terror suspects at Guantanamo Bay led to the discovery of Bin Laden, Osama himself, the supposed world�s most wanted terrorist and a treasure trove of terror information, despite the fact that he was unarmed, was not taken in for questioning, he was instantly shot in the head according to the official narrative... |
To me it sounds like a bunch of guys trying to justify torture for political gain and an "I told ya so" moment to steal some spotlight from Obama and his administration.
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| 9) The US government has been caught on several occasions within the past decade staging military operations for the purposes of generating contrived, pro-war sentiment amongst the American public. Both the �rescue� of Jessica Lynch and the death of Pat Tillman were complete fables, scripted and staged at complete odds with the truth and unleashed on Americans as part of a psychological warfare offensive to elicit support for the war on terror, almost identical to what we�re seeing now with the Bin Laden sideshow... |
Yet there are even more times over the past 10 years that our elite soldiers have pulled off daring raids and assaults that have killed or captured over 2000 enemy combatants. (In Afghanistan alone)
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| 10) Despite the fact that Obama announced last Sunday on live television that the world was now �safer� because Bin Laden was dead, his administration, with the aid of the fearmongering mass media, instantly seized upon the situation to terrify Americans into being afraid of imminent �reprisal� terror attacks inside the United States, later claiming that Bin Laden had formulated an �aspirational rather than operational� plan to derail US trains that travel over 500mph, although no trains in the US can actually travel at such speeds... |
I only remember reading stories that we should be careful about revenge attacks and that AQ was planning an attack on trains but it was months away from going operational. Then they grounded a plane because of some Muslims were on it and other passengers were nervous. Is that government's fault or is it that the majority of Americans are fearful of Muslims? That doesn't really prove anything. |
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Abe Scrap
Joined: 01 May 2011
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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Gee, Kuros, I sure hope you didn't strain yourself in those so-called "rebuttals." Now I'll give you the responses you deserve and move on.
1. No
2. Nope
3. Wrong
4. False
5. Wrong again
6. What?
7. Not true
8. Never happened
9. Impossible
10. Uh-uh.
Great conversation we're having here. What I can't believe is that jrwhite gave a more substantive response than you. How embarrassing! If I were you I'd lay low for a couple of weeks until this all blows over. |
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Abe Scrap
Joined: 01 May 2011
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| catman wrote: |
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| 2) The official narrative of how the raid unfolded completely collapsed within days of its announcement |
Definte "completely collapsed". |
First there had been a 40 minute shootout, then there was no shootout and just one man was armed, first Bin Laden was armed then he was not, first Bin Laden used his wife as a human shield and then he did not. First the compound was described as a �$1 million dollar mansion� then it turned out to be a rubbish-strewn dilapidated compound that was worth less than a quarter of that. Almost every single aspect of the official narrative has changed since Obama first described the raid last Sunday as the White House struggles to keep its story straight.
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| 5) As even mainstream journalists began to cast suspicion on the official narrative behind the raid, the media reported that Al-Qaeda itself had confirmed every detail of Obama�s address the the nation. However, the conduit for such a claim was in fact an organization called SITE, which is a notorious Pentagon propaganda front run by the daughter of an Israeli spy that has been caught on numerous occasions releasing fake cartoonish �Al-Qaeda� videos at the most politically expedient times for both the Bush and Obama administrations. |
Source? (outside of prision planet/Alex Jones) |
Accessed October 9, 2007, the SITE website seems to be an aggregator of publicly-available data on the internet, mostly consisting of current news items, including but not limited to:
* A "Terrorism Library",[14] which on cursory investigation, looks to be a straight data scrape from the U.S. Department of State's Patterns of Global Terrorism - 2003, Appendix B,[15]
Sources at http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=SITE_Institute#cite_ref-13 |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Abe Scrap wrote: |
| catman wrote: |
| Quote: |
| 2) The official narrative of how the raid unfolded completely collapsed within days of its announcement |
Definte "completely collapsed". |
First there had been a 40 minute shootout, then there was no shootout |
40 minutes is consistent with the time frame. Was there shooting continuously for 40 minutres?
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and just one man was armed, first Bin Laden was armed then he was not, first Bin Laden used his wife as a human shield and then he did not. |
The narrative changed that he was armed to reaching for a weapon. So?
One of his wives was shot in the room.
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| First the compound was described as a �$1 million dollar mansion� then it turned out to be a rubbish-strewn dilapidated compound that was worth less than a quarter of that |
They never saw inside the compound/mansion. It it really a big deal that they got the real estate value wrong?
[quote Almost every single aspect of the official narrative has changed since Obama first described the raid last Sunday as the White House struggles to keep its story straight.[/quote]
It is the same government that is realing this new info that contradicts the old info they released. A new narrative was not discovered by investigative journalists putting the white house on the defensive.
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| 5) As even mainstream journalists began to cast suspicion on the official narrative behind the raid, the media reported that Al-Qaeda itself had confirmed every detail of Obama�s address the the nation. However, the conduit for such a claim was in fact an organization called SITE, which is a notorious Pentagon propaganda front run by the daughter of an Israeli spy that has been caught on numerous occasions releasing fake cartoonish �Al-Qaeda� videos at the most politically expedient times for both the Bush and Obama administrations. |
Source? (outside of prision planet/Alex Jones) |
Accessed October 9, 2007, the SITE website seems to be an aggregator of publicly-available data on the internet, mostly consisting of current news items, including but not limited to:
* A "Terrorism Library",[14] which on cursory investigation, looks to be a straight data scrape from the U.S. Department of State's Patterns of Global Terrorism - 2003, Appendix B,[15]
Sources at http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=SITE_Institute#cite_ref-13[/quote]
.......................................................................................
You guys previously claimed that SITE was responisble for the Al-Qaeda message. In fact it appeared on numerous militant websites.
Please source that SITE was responsible for the AQ message.
Also, anything on the Talibin reprisal attacks in Pakistan? |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| Seeing as how they are tiptoeing around the photos because they don't want to incite further violence. So they denied OBL supporters a long drawn out trial and a grave. And they can also claim the moral high ground by doing it in 24 hours. |
We can claim no 'moral high ground' whatsoever. 1) Pakistani sovereignty was violated by the unauthorized raid; 2) unarmed people were murdered; 3) OBL was explicitly ordered to be executed without a trial (refer back to the murder in #2); and 4) his body was dumped in the ocean not in accordance with traditional Muslim burial rights and then broadcast as being the exact opposite.
Whether you or not you believe OBL was actually killed during the raid, no one should feel the least bit proud about what has been reported as having happened. |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| Seeing as how they are tiptoeing around the photos because they don't want to incite further violence. So they denied OBL supporters a long drawn out trial and a grave. And they can also claim the moral high ground by doing it in 24 hours. |
We can claim no 'moral high ground' whatsoever. 1) Pakistani sovereignty was violated by the unauthorized raid; 2) unarmed people were murdered; 3) OBL was explicitly ordered to be executed without a trial (refer back to the murder in #2); and 4) his body was dumped in the ocean not in accordance with traditional Muslim burial rights and then broadcast as being the exact opposite.
Whether you or not you believe OBL was actually killed during the raid, no one should feel the least bit proud about what has been reported as having happened. |
The White House is claiming the moral high ground by burying him within 24 hours by keeping with Muslim tradition. I'm not saying if what they are doing is right or wrong. I'm just saying what the White House's stance on it is. They are trying to claim they threw OBL in the ocean so as to keep with OBL's Muslim traditions. Whether or not that is right or wrong, it doesn't provide any evidence that he was or wasn't killed. But when you connect that motive with the motive to not release the pictures, it looks like the Obama Administration is tiptoeing around offending a large number of conservative Muslims that they might be afraid will turn radical if AQ uses the grave site and the photos as a vehicle for further extremism. Like I said before, I think releasing the photos is not going to make terrorists want to kill Americans any more. And hiding them does not make them want to kill Americans any less. I understand his reason, but I don't agree with BHO's decision to conceal the photos and I also don't think it's proof of a conspiracy. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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Patriot Act extended for 4 years.
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WASHINGTON � Top congressional leaders agreed Thursday to a four-year extension of the anti-terrorist Patriot Act, the controversial law passed after the Sept. 11 attacks that governs the search for terrorists on American soil.
The deal between Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and House Speaker John Boehner calls for a vote before May 27, when parts of the current act expire. The idea is to pass the extension with as little debate as possible to avoid a protracted and familiar argument over the expanded power the law gives to the government.
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Some Patriot Act opponents suggest that Osama bin Laden's demise earlier this month should prompt Congress to reconsider the law, written when the terrorist leader was at the peak of his power. But the act's supporters warn that al-Qaida splinter groups, scattered from Pakistan to the United States and beyond, may try to retaliate.
"Now more than ever, we need access to the crucial authorities in the Patriot Act," Attorney General Eric Holder told the Senate Judiciary Committee. |
The American Military kills Osama bin Laden and now we need the Patriot Act even more! |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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Great line from Seth Myers regarding the conspiracy theorists
"Obama is the first black man in history that has to prove he killed someone"  |
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Menino80
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Location: Hodor?
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| Abe Scrap wrote: |
Gee, Kuros, I sure hope you didn't strain yourself in those so-called "rebuttals." Now I'll give you the responses you deserve and move on.
1. No
2. Nope
3. Wrong
4. False
5. Wrong again
6. What?
7. Not true
8. Never happened
9. Impossible
10. Uh-uh.
Great conversation we're having here. What I can't believe is that jrwhite gave a more substantive response than you. How embarrassing! If I were you I'd lay low for a couple of weeks until this all blows over. |
Stop posting paranoid Angelfire-quality crap and you'll get a more substantive response. |
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Abe Scrap
Joined: 01 May 2011
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 8:29 am Post subject: |
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^ Do you guys never tire of attacking the messenger?
OK, you can't rebut what was said. Got it. |
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Menino80
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Location: Hodor?
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| Abe Scrap wrote: |
^ Do you guys never tire of attacking the messenger?
OK, you can't rebut what was said. Got it. |
It is not worth the time to rebut what you say. What you say is below rebuttal. |
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Abe Scrap
Joined: 01 May 2011
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2011 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| Menino80 wrote: |
| Abe Scrap wrote: |
^ Do you guys never tire of attacking the messenger?
OK, you can't rebut what was said. Got it. |
It is not worth the time to rebut what you say. What you say is below rebuttal. |
Thank you for proving my point. |
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