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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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JohnML
Joined: 05 Jul 2015
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 Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:12 am Post subject: |
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Pretty much sums it up, applying for EPIK positions has become notably more competitive. The jobs are still there and for experienced people 2.1 seems to be the norm still but it's a little harder to find a job across the board in any type of institute. Also I could find sources for the decline in side benefits like housing and airfare but I'm too lazy. It's all over this board anyway.
People say it's too simplistic of an outlook but the amount of university graduates in my country has around doubled in the last 20 years, many of them are essentially unemployable with the current market/degree types. A lot of them are choosing to go abroad to teach. So combined with the decline in jobs, things aren't looking too good even for the qualified individuals in asia (not only Korea) as it's the number one newbie teaching destination. At least I'm just assuming it is but it seems obviously so. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnML wrote: |
Pretty much sums it up, applying for EPIK positions has become notably more competitive. The jobs are still there and for experienced people 2.1 seems to be the norm still but it's a little harder to find a job across the board in any type of institute. Also I could find sources for the decline in side benefits like housing and airfare but I'm too lazy. It's all over this board anyway.
People say it's too simplistic of an outlook but the amount of university graduates in my country has around doubled in the last 20 years, many of them are essentially unemployable with the current market/degree types. A lot of them are choosing to go abroad to teach. So combined with the decline in jobs, things aren't looking too good even for the qualified individuals in asia (not only Korea) as it's the number one newbie teaching destination. At least I'm just assuming it is but it seems obviously so. |
Friend in China just told me they are asking you to verifiy the degrees there now. Too many folks with fake degrees. If this happens, there'll be even more jobs for waygook teachers with real degrees. There already is a huge demand even with these fake degree hosers increasing competition somewhat. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:49 am Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
I think it will shrink slightly but will hold at about the 20,000 E2s level in the longer run (next decade or so).
Like Japan the craze has slowed, the market has stabilized (in terms of overall job numbers) and will sustain itself at close to present levels. |
Demand is drastically declining:
http://populargusts.blogspot.kr/2016/03/immigration-statistics-showing-e-2.html
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| E-2 numbers are now below 2007 figures. |
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| the number of hagwon-employed E-2s peaked in 2008. |
At the same time supply (the number of applicants) is going up due to an increased awareness of Korea / an increased awareness of the opportunity to teach English overseas / a maturing market. So much competition now. More people are getting into it / staying, even as the market shrinks. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
I think it will shrink slightly but will hold at about the 20,000 E2s level in the longer run (next decade or so).
Like Japan the craze has slowed, the market has stabilized (in terms of overall job numbers) and will sustain itself at close to present levels. |
Demand is drastically declining:
http://populargusts.blogspot.kr/2016/03/immigration-statistics-showing-e-2.html
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| E-2 numbers are now below 2007 figures. |
| Quote: |
| the number of hagwon-employed E-2s peaked in 2008. |
At the same time supply (the number of applicants) is going up due to an increased awareness of Korea / an increased awareness of the opportunity to teach English overseas / a maturing market. So much competition now. More people are getting into it / staying, even as the market shrinks. |
E2 Visas by year.
1993 - 1,136
1994 - 2,241
1995 - 4,230
1996 - 7,473
1997 - 7,607
1998 - 4,927
1999 - 5,009
2000 - 6,414
2001 - 8,388
2002 - 10,864
2003 - 10,822
2004 - 11,344
2005 - 12,439
2006 - 15,001
2007 - 17,721
2008 - 19,771
2009 - 22,642
2010 - 23,317
2011 - 22,541
2012 - 21,603
2013 - 20,030
2014 - 17,949
2015 - 16,144
Peak was 2010. Now less are here due to China and the USA recovering. Lots of ASAP offers for hakwons. Public still competitive for now. But probably not for much longer if this trend continues. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:29 am Post subject: |
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Supply has exceeded demand since 2010. If E-2 numbers are going down, it's because the number of jobs is going down. (The number of applicants is probably higher than it's ever been.)
Look at the number of NETs working in public schools in Busan:
2012: 528
2013: 399
2014: 304
2015: 170
That's quite the decline. |
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Fallacy
Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Location: ex-ROK
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:57 am Post subject: RE: Why the market is flooded |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| That's quite the decline. |
Precisely. Get out now, ahead of the stampede. There is little reason for anyone to stay just to watch as society tries to grapple with managing the decline. "The market is flooded" analogy is probably not as descriptively accurate, for a drought has evaporated water faster than the fish have been able to escape the receding levels. There is currently a run on the pension funds, so get yours out now before outflows are halted. |
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JohnML
Joined: 05 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
I think it will shrink slightly but will hold at about the 20,000 E2s level in the longer run (next decade or so).
Like Japan the craze has slowed, the market has stabilized (in terms of overall job numbers) and will sustain itself at close to present levels. |
Demand is drastically declining:
http://populargusts.blogspot.kr/2016/03/immigration-statistics-showing-e-2.html
| Quote: |
| E-2 numbers are now below 2007 figures. |
| Quote: |
| the number of hagwon-employed E-2s peaked in 2008. |
At the same time supply (the number of applicants) is going up due to an increased awareness of Korea / an increased awareness of the opportunity to teach English overseas / a maturing market. So much competition now. More people are getting into it / staying, even as the market shrinks. |
That's extremely interesting and just as I thought, the overall num of expats in Korea has been on the increase due to high skilled labour + cheap labour from neighbouring countries. There are plenty of industries that are seeing a growth for expatriates in Korea but yeah, teaching isn't one of them. I wonder when the cuts will tail off. I don't see it ever recovering to what it was before. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:43 am Post subject: |
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Look to Japan for a comparable morphing of the ESL industry. Korea is going through the same process.
Adjust accordingly. |
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JohnML
Joined: 05 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Look to Japan for a comparable morphing of the ESL industry. Korea is going through the same process.
Adjust accordingly. |
Given the cost of living and lack of benefits in Japan it's a much worse place right now to teach than Korea and is often citied as one of the most mediocre paying (but coolest places) to teach. Also salaries still haven't shifted positively in a long time. You are right, this is the way Korea is going. |
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Kwangjuchicken
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Location: I was abducted by aliens on my way to Korea and forced to be an EFL teacher on this crazy planet.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| Matthew 24: 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away. |
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ArabicTeacher
Joined: 20 Jan 2016
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| JohnML wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Look to Japan for a comparable morphing of the ESL industry. Korea is going through the same process.
Adjust accordingly. |
Given the cost of living and lack of benefits in Japan it's a much worse place right now to teach than Korea and is often citied as one of the most mediocre paying (but coolest places) to teach. Also salaries still haven't shifted positively in a long time. You are right, this is the way Korea is going. |
I know that many Arabs who teach Arabic in Japan are leaving the country in droves over the past several years. It's strange since Japanese people in general are slightly more eager to learn Arabic than Koreans. But isn't Japan still French-friendly? I know that there are still cram schools in Japan that teach French even to elementary kids. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: RE: Why the market is flooded |
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| Fallacy wrote: |
| "The market is flooded" analogy is probably not as descriptively accurate, for a drought has evaporated water faster than the fish have been able to escape the receding levels. |
Yeah, that's right. Demand for native English teachers is way down. Just saw this in today's paper: http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2016/06/116_206298.html
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| "English villages" across the nation, which were popular in the mid-2000s as venues for English language immersion camps for students, are now facing closure due to a lack of demand. |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like Korea is going down the same road as Japan: better credentials required for better (or, in cases, the same) jobs, flattening pay and benefits, and experienced people with networks still doing OK.
My wife was there for six years from the late 80s to early 90s and saw the writing on the wall. Based largely on her advice, I got out of ESL over 15 years ago.
I still have friends here who are trained, professional ESL teachers (with zero proper training, I had hit my wall of mediocrity in the field and knew it), and they're still doing fine at universities or foreign schools. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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More and more Koreans are going to the Philippines to study English/be immersed in English.
http://www.tourism.gov.ph/Pages/IndustryPerformance.aspx
Even the number of Chinese going there doubled from 2015 to 2016.
In other news:
Until recently, Issuance of an E2 visa (for the teaching of English) was limited to people (passport holders) from 7 countries: Australia, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa, the United Kingdom and Ireland, and the United States.
http://www.korea4expats.com/article-E2-English-teaching-visa-Korea.html
The concern about 'correct' accents has diminished in recent years.
In 2015, Korean media reported that Korea is also now accepting citizens of 4 additional countries for English teaching positions at primary and secondary schools nationwide - India, Malaysia, Philippines and Singapore. These are countries that have trade agreements with Korea. |
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