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AmericanExile
Joined: 04 May 2009
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 Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:53 am Post subject: |
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Dublin. I swapped rounds with mostly the college crowd who used the term to be, or at least seem, more reasonable and less provocative. Then we would be thrown out of the bar for singing which just isn't done around Trinity.
I remember Van Morrison talked about it. I don't remember his exact words but he rejected the term. He doesn't think of himself as Anglo-Irish just Irish. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| AmericanExile wrote: |
Dublin. I swapped rounds with mostly the college crowd who used the term to be, or at least seem, more reasonable and less provocative. Then we would be thrown out of the bar for singing which just isn't done around Trinity.
I remember Van Morrison talked about it. I don't remember his exact words but he rejected the term. He doesn't think of himself as Anglo-Irish just Irish. |
interesting. I've never spent any amount of time (maybe a week total) in Dublin and basically spent all my life in Derry or Belfast. I suppose it could be used for an english person living in ireland?
It wasn't really a bad thing to be anglo irish. Alot of great men in irish history could be described as such. I just only remember it from history class. |
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AmericanExile
Joined: 04 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| JMO wrote: |
| AmericanExile wrote: |
Dublin. I swapped rounds with mostly the college crowd who used the term to be, or at least seem, more reasonable and less provocative. Then we would be thrown out of the bar for singing which just isn't done around Trinity.
I remember Van Morrison talked about it. I don't remember his exact words but he rejected the term. He doesn't think of himself as Anglo-Irish just Irish. |
interesting. I've never spent any amount of time (maybe a week total) in Dublin and basically spent all my life in Derry or Belfast. I suppose it could be used for an english person living in ireland?
It wasn't really a bad thing to be anglo irish. Alot of great men in irish history could be described as such. I just only remember it from history class. |
I love Dublin. Great theater on the cheap. Great pubs with fantastic music. World's worst Mexican food though. |
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kayakorea2
Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:10 am Post subject: Re: Irish American/ Italian American; who are you fooling? Y |
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| John_ESL_White wrote: |
All American families have a tie to another country (except, native Am, of course).
I asked if he had ever been to Ireland. He said, "No, but someday i want to visit".
I asked if his parents had ever been to Ireland. He said, "No, but they've always wanted to visit."
I asked if his grandparents ever visited Ireland and, get this, he said, "no, but his grandparents' parents came from Ireland", on one side of his family.
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John I thought I'd better check with you first to see if I am qualified to say I am Irish American. Yes, I've been to Ireland. Yes, my father has been there too, to see where his ancestors came from. And I am 4 or 5 generations, not 18 (or 3), removed from both my mom and dad's ancestors who came over from Ireland.
So when is the cut off after which one is not allowed to say the offensive I-A words? And in which contexts might it be okay? I had some students ask me when talking about the hyphenated nationalities what I considered myself. I said "I guess you could call me Irish-American since almost all of my ancestors came from Ireland and I'm not Native American." Have I overstepped my bounds?
Yes, it could only be a bunch of haters who really give a rats a** how one defines him or herself. What's the point in comparing or trying to understand. Just let us have a bit of fun and curiosity about where we came from. The U.S. is a young country. We don't have thousands of years of roots and culture to feel grounded or connected too.
Someone says "what about Australians? They're not going crazy claiming to be Irish-Australians." Well, they do speak a more similar English to the folks back in the British Isles and are a lot closer culturally too (not to mention still being part of the Commonwealth). So they just may not feel that urge that many Americans feel to identify with a distant past and some tradition.
Don't let it bother you. How could it possibly affect you anyway? There must be something more annoying than that. |
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bundangbabo
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| AmericanExile wrote: |
| JMO wrote: |
| AmericanExile wrote: |
Anglo-Irish.
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Anglo-Irish is a term for the protestant ruling class in Ireland pre free state.(ie in the 1800s) |
It is still used today. As I said before, I lived there. I've heard it. Any fool can look things up on the internet. It doesn't mean you actually know anything. |
Your arrogance is astounding - but apologies to you because we all know that Irish-Americans are more Irish than even the Irish themselves and you have just proved it!
JMO is right - you are wrong. An internet link from an Irish university professor is more legit than 'I heard the term 'Anglo-Irish' when I lived in Dublin' 
http://multitext.ucc.ie/d/The_Anglo-Irish
'Ohhhhhhhhhh my gaaaaaaaaawd - you can't get any goddamn Mexicin food here in Dublin - whadkindaciddy is this?'  |
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AmericanExile
Joined: 04 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| bundangbabo wrote: |
| AmericanExile wrote: |
| JMO wrote: |
| AmericanExile wrote: |
Anglo-Irish.
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Anglo-Irish is a term for the protestant ruling class in Ireland pre free state.(ie in the 1800s) |
It is still used today. As I said before, I lived there. I've heard it. Any fool can look things up on the internet. It doesn't mean you actually know anything. |
Your arrogance is astounding - but apologies to you because we all know that Irish-Americans are more Irish than even the Irish themselves and you have just proved it!
JMO is right - you are wrong. An internet link from an Irish university professor is more legit than 'I heard the term 'Anglo-Irish' when I lived in Dublin'
http://multitext.ucc.ie/d/The_Anglo-Irish
'Ohhhhhhhhhh my gaaaaaaaaawd - you can't get any goddamn Mexicin food here in Dublin - whadkindaciddy is this?' |
And here is the very first thread from my internet search that uses the term Anglo-Irish to refer to Van Morrison. A term used in our times about a living human.
http://www.usenet.com/newsgroups/rec-music-dylan/msg06970.html
You're just another internet expert and a lazy one at that. You call me arrogant. It takes one I guess.
Here's a thought. Maybe a term can be used for more than one thing. Hmmmm, I wonder if that has ever happened in the history of the world?
Were the romantics a group of poets or a rock band?
Oh, and I never said you couldn't get Mexican food in Dublin. I said it is terrible. I said that after saying I loved the city. It is a joke based on violation of expectations. You can look that up on the internet sometime. |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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I think the term Anglo-Irish is still used to describe the protestants of English descent who lived, or still live in little pockets around the Irish Republic. Oscar Wilde etc.
It's also a political term, e.g. The Anglo-Irish Agreement in the 80's.
I don't really see how it can describe Van Morrison. A Belfast protestant. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| JMO wrote: |
North Americans do not want to be 'American' or 'Canadian' because they think that means WASP.
Really though it is a horrible way to make a connection. Say 'I have family in...' might make a connection. Saying 'I am..' makes you a pretender. |
No, it doesn't. Its just the American way of speaking. Irish-Americans don't think they're Irish just because they put the word in front of American. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| eamo wrote: |
I think the term Anglo-Irish is still used to describe the protestants of English descent who lived, or still live in little pockets around the Irish Republic. Oscar Wilde etc.
It's also a political term, e.g. The Anglo-Irish Agreement in the 80's.
I don't really see how it can describe Van Morrison. A Belfast protestant. |
Yea, thats possibly why from a northern centric perspective I never heard the term in common speech.
Oscar Wilde was pre free state though. I can't think of anyone post free state being described as anglo irish. Other prominent lterary anglo irish I can think of would include Bram Stoker and I suppose Jonathan Swift. Parnell would be one of the most influential.
I think people forget that Ireland wasn't that nationalist a country in general until after 1916. Anglo Irish should not be thought of as a derogatory term.
American Exile
| Quote: |
Here's a thought. Maybe a term can be used for more than one thing. Hmmmm, I wonder if that has ever happened in the history of the world?
Were the romantics a group of poets or a rock band? |
That seems fair enough. It is just that this term has a very specific meaning in Irish history and people tend to associate it with that.
I have to agree with Eamo though, Van Morrison is a terrible example. dude is a protestant from Belfast. He is Northern Irish surely.
Kuros
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| No, it doesn't. Its just the American way of speaking. Irish-Americans don't think they're Irish just because they put the word in front of American. |
sorry, makes you a pretender in the eyes of a substantial number of Irish people. Thus does not help you make a connection. Maybe you meant make a connection with other Americans..possibly. |
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AmericanExile
Joined: 04 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| eamo wrote: |
I think the term Anglo-Irish is still used to describe the protestants of English descent who lived, or still live in little pockets around the Irish Republic. Oscar Wilde etc.
It's also a political term, e.g. The Anglo-Irish Agreement in the 80's.
I don't really see how it can describe Van Morrison. A Belfast protestant. |
And yet it is. The person who wrote the post I linked to earlier must have thought others would understand and agree with their use of the term.
I agree it isn't meant negatively. |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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A neat little bit of dialogue from a Behan play on the wikipedia page on 'anglo-irish'.
Pat: He was an Anglo-Irishman.
Meg: In the name of God, what's that?
Pat: A Protestant with a horse.
Ropeen: Leadbetter.
Pat: No, no, an ordinary Protestant like Leadbetter, the plumber in the back parlour next door, won't do, nor a Belfast orangeman, not if he was as black as your boot.
Meg: Why not?
Pat: Because they work. An Anglo-Irishman only works at riding horses, drinking whiskey, and reading double-meaning books in Irish at Trinity College.
� From Act One of The Hostage," 1958 |
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alphakennyone
Joined: 01 Aug 2005
Location: city heights
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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Beware, the head of state says she believes in leprechauns.
Irish folktales scare the **** out of me. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| JMO wrote: |
Kuros
| Quote: |
| No, it doesn't. Its just the American way of speaking. Irish-Americans don't think they're Irish just because they put the word in front of American. |
sorry, makes you a pretender in the eyes of a substantial number of Irish people. Thus does not help you make a connection. Maybe you meant make a connection with other Americans..possibly. |
Anyway, if your genetic origins are from Ireland, you're Irish-American. Its that simple. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:08 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| JMO wrote: |
Kuros
| Quote: |
| No, it doesn't. Its just the American way of speaking. Irish-Americans don't think they're Irish just because they put the word in front of American. |
sorry, makes you a pretender in the eyes of a substantial number of Irish people. Thus does not help you make a connection. Maybe you meant make a connection with other Americans..possibly. |
Anyway, if your genetic origins are from Ireland, you're Irish-American. Its that simple. |
JMO, are you Irish? Or just a jerk? Or just really thick in the head?
Irish-American...the 'AMERICAN' is part of the title. It is a key ingredient.
For whatever reason, you seem to think Irish-American = Irish. It does not. It also doesn't mean the person isn't American for being Irish-American nor is he trying NOT to identify with being American.
It simply IS what it IS. It is an American with Irish heritage...meaning Catholicism, Kennedys, and dozens of relatives with names like Mary and Patrick and such, crucifixes in the house, and grandparents with Virgin Mary statues in an American yard.
It's NOT that difficult of a concept. |
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Geckoman
Joined: 07 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:01 am Post subject: |
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The reason why Americans of Irish or Italian ancestry are very proud of their Irish/Italian roots is because historically Irish-Americans and Italian-Americans faced a lot of discrimination in the United States.
One reason they were discrimationed against was because those two respective groups were/are predominately Catholic and as we all know, the United States is overwhelming a Protestant country and historically Catholic-Americans were discriminated against.
To learn more about the discrimination that Irish-Americans and Italian-Americans and Catholic-Ameriacns faced in the US just search the web.
The internet is a great tool to learn history. |
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