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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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 Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| itaewonguy wrote: |
| Daechidong Waygookin wrote: |
Ok genius, so, what are YOU doing? Arent you in Korea?
Money here stretches much more than back home. You cant just compare it dollar for dollar, you have to look at all the factors. Taxes, cost of living, number of expenses etc.
Look at it like this. Ever been to Europe? Go to eastern Europe. Hungary, Poland, czech Rep. If you go to the big cities you will see people driving nice new Peugeots or Renaults, live in fairly nice homes, wearing nice clothes. Now, how can they live like that if people there make less money than we English teachers in Korea? Well, money stretches far more there for a lot of reasons.
2.5 is a very good salary. It allows you to bank 1.5 a month, and if you have a spouse, and they work, you can bank even more.
Im a lifer, like you, so maybe your post wasnt directed at us lifers. But even for short termers, they can come here, save tons, go back and start a life debt free. Lifers can pretty quickly make a nice nest egg, so that by the age of 30, they can potentially own an apartment, furniture, a car. Without debt, without mortgages.
Back home 30 grand a year would suck for sure. Herem it can give you a very good life. |
no the point I was trying to make was..
with a university degree is making 30.000 dollars a year a good salary?
thats my point... |
Yes. It's an excellent salary for the basic requirements: a BA and no work experience needed. I'm not sure what your degree is in or how long you've been in Korea or what part of the world you come from but where I come from finding an entry level job with a BA and no skills is not an easy job. I don't know too many places in Canada, say, where you can get a BA in History from Trent and walk into a 30K a year/18-working-hours a week job.
But does a hagwon job pay the equivalent of a 30K a year job in North America? No. Based on my back of the envelope calcs, a typical hagwon job provides a life style, a savings rate, and a cash flow equivalent to a 45K a year job in North America.
You have to look at what you net and factor in the free apartment. What would you have to earn in a North American city to afford a 1 bedroom apartment and have $1,900 cash money in your account each month to play with? You pretty much need to gross 45K a year to afford a typical one bedroom apartment and have $1,900 a month in after tax income to spend.
You would be lucky in many cases to be making 45K after 5 years in the work force in North America with a simple BA.
And again we have to come back to it's a 45K a year PART TIME JOB. If you really wanted to fill those other 22 hours a week your average BA-holding slob works in North America, well, 22 hours of privates at $30 an hour = $34,000 a year in additional income. So that's $64,000 a year. All for having a BA, no experience, and some drive to work hard. What was your point exactly? |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:36 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| itaewonguy wrote: |
| Daechidong Waygookin wrote: |
Ok genius, so, what are YOU doing? Arent you in Korea?
Money here stretches much more than back home. You cant just compare it dollar for dollar, you have to look at all the factors. Taxes, cost of living, number of expenses etc.
Look at it like this. Ever been to Europe? Go to eastern Europe. Hungary, Poland, czech Rep. If you go to the big cities you will see people driving nice new Peugeots or Renaults, live in fairly nice homes, wearing nice clothes. Now, how can they live like that if people there make less money than we English teachers in Korea? Well, money stretches far more there for a lot of reasons.
2.5 is a very good salary. It allows you to bank 1.5 a month, and if you have a spouse, and they work, you can bank even more.
Im a lifer, like you, so maybe your post wasnt directed at us lifers. But even for short termers, they can come here, save tons, go back and start a life debt free. Lifers can pretty quickly make a nice nest egg, so that by the age of 30, they can potentially own an apartment, furniture, a car. Without debt, without mortgages.
Back home 30 grand a year would suck for sure. Herem it can give you a very good life. |
no the point I was trying to make was..
with a university degree is making 30.000 dollars a year a good salary?
thats my point... |
Yes. It's an excellent salary for the basic requirements: a BA and no work experience needed. I'm not sure what your degree is in or how long you've been in Korea or what part of the world you come from but where I come from finding an entry level job with a BA and no skills is not an easy job. I don't know too many places in Canada, say, where you can get a BA in History from Trent and walk into a 30K a year/18-working-hours a week job.
But does a hagwon job pay the equivalent of a 30K a year job in North America? No. Based on my back of the envelope calcs, a typical hagwon job provides a life style, a savings rate, and a cash flow equivalent to a 45K a year job in North America.
You have to look at what you net and factor in the free apartment. What would you have to earn in a North American city to afford a 1 bedroom apartment and have $1,900 cash money in your account each month to play with? You pretty much need to gross 45K a year to afford a typical one bedroom apartment and have $1,900 a month in after tax income to spend.
You would be lucky in many cases to be making 45K after 5 years in the work force in North America with a simple BA.
And again we have to come back to it's a 45K a year PART TIME JOB. If you really wanted to fill those other 22 hours a week your average BA-holding slob works in North America, well, 22 hours of privates at $30 an hour = $34,000 a year in additional income. So that's $64,000 a year. All for having a BA, no experience, and some drive to work hard. What was your point exactly? |
so working here for 5 years and still earning 30.000 a year?
this is a business where you cant really grow..
you said no experience needed,..so is having a degree really important?
a free apartment? is that what you call that place,.,
you can share a nice house in the city with a room mate or two.. in any major city in the world..for the price of 500 bucks a month..
I always believed that going to university was so you could get a high paying job and grow in the work force..
Garbage collectors make more money than ESL...
plumbers, electricians, carpenters, builders..
so now is a trade more better than a degree?
I mean .. going 4 years through uni so you can come to KOREA and teach ESL? and make a not growing income of 30.000 ....?
sure its a good income if you are only planning on staying here for a couple years.. then head home to use your degree to make a better living.
if money is a major priority to you.. where many its not...
you go to uni for 4 years and make 30,000 with a free house..and work 30hours.. and no way can your income grow or your status in the industry!
yeah.. ok..
everyone in this industry are not qualified to teach it..
well ok,, if you do have a teaching degree.. it doesnt give you any more benefits or money than someone with a math degree... does it?
I was earning 30.000 a year when I was 16 years old!!!
as a waiter after schools from 5:30 - 11:30pm...
I think ESL teaching should not require a 4 year degree..
most people can make this money in any job back home..
a dish washer can make this money. sure requires longer hours..
but doesnt require a 4 year degree to pay off either..
my point again..
is 30.000 a year for a uni grad good money!
if you are 22-- 32 or 42 years old...
If you ask me.. ITS NOT.. |
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Daechidong Waygookin
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: No Longer on Dave's. Ive quit.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:40 am Post subject: |
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What do you do then?
You still dont get it. You cant compare it dollar for dollar.
Those people may make more money than me but they are scraping by from paycheck to paycheck and living in dumps. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:42 am Post subject: |
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I recall reading an article in Forbes, from way back in the day when even a few Forbes readers were impressed by six-digit salaries. While I can't remember the precise figures, I know I'm very close. They found that the average American six-digit couple (grossing about US$125,000 p.a.) was saving less in a year than I was then in a very good month: $4,000.
Where did it all go? Taxes, mortgage, Lexus payments, insurance payments, more insurance payments, even more insurance payments, and private school for one of their kids. They bought food and dined out, as we all do, but it was more expensive. They took vacations as we do, but they were more expensive. Ditto transportation, ditto clothes, ditto utilities, etc.
They also had some stock & unit trust assets, which I'll wager crashed and burned in 2000. And I also wouldn't be at all surprised if the "average couple" are now divorced, either or both under-employed, and so forth.
Forbes really ought to scour the mobile home parks, track them both down, and do a "Where Are They Now?" 10-year retrospective.
For my money, Korea wins hands down in the saveability department. It's like big financial weight-watchers camp. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| itaewonguy wrote: |
so working here for 5 years and still earning 30.000 a year?
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Are you drunk? I'm suggesting a hagwon job pays enough for a North American life style and savings level that requires a 45K a year gross to enjoy. And, again, that's 45K for an 18-hour-a-week part time job. If you're lucky enough to secure an entry-level, 40-hour-a-week, career track job at 30K, assuming a generous 5% raise each year, you would be grossing 36,000 after 5 years. You would need to get 11% raises each year to gross 45K.
| Quote: |
| this is a business where you cant really grow.. |
Pretty much. Pity the lifers. We're not really talking about them tho. If we were, we'd be talking about you. We're talking about people who zoom in, work a year or two, and go home with 10K-a-year saved.
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| you said no experience needed,..so is having a degree really important? |
You can't get an E2 work visa without one.
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a free apartment? is that what you call that place,.,
you can share a nice house in the city with a room mate or two.. in any major city in the world..for the price of 500 bucks a month |
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Really now? Tell that to people paying $1,000 a month for a one bedroom "garden level" apartment in Toronto and Vancouver. And who wants to live with another person when you can get a free "all your own" apartment?
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| I always believed that going to university was so you could get a high paying job and grow in the work force.. |
What was your degree in? There are many reasons to go to university over trade school. The almighty dollar is not the end all.
| Quote: |
Garbage collectors make more money than ESL...
plumbers, electricians, carpenters, builders..
so now is a trade more better than a degree? |
It can be for sure. Skilled workers, whether they have a degree in computer science or their electrician's papers, can always command a nice wage. Having a BA in History or Sociology doesn't really train you for anything specific. So what's your point?
| Quote: |
I mean .. going 4 years through uni so you can come to KOREA and teach ESL? and make a not growing income of 30.000 ....?
sure its a good income if you are only planning on staying here for a couple years.. then head home to use your degree to make a better living.
if money is a major priority to you.. where many its not... |
I think we agreed we're not talking about lifers. We're talking about people who want to do just that. Find some quick work out of university, save money, pay down a student loan.
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I was earning 30.000 a year when I was 16 years old!!!
as a waiter after schools from 5:30 - 11:30pm... |
Great. As teaching is not something everyone is cut out for, waitering is a job not all are cut out for. Good waiters can make good money in tips. Not everyone has a good disposition or legs for that line of work. To wit, serving the public can really, really suck.
| Quote: |
I think ESL teaching should not require a 4 year degree..
most people can make this money in any job back home..
a dish washer can make this money. sure requires longer hours..
but doesnt require a 4 year degree to pay off either.. |
Right longer hours. You can't make 45k a year working 3-4 hours a day. Assuming you're a dishwasher making a generous $9 an hour, to make 30K you would need to work only 64 hours a week. Wow, only five 12-hour days, plus 4 hours on Saturday. Your point? Oh wait...
| Quote: |
my point again..
is 30.000 a year for a uni grad good money!
if you are 22-- 32 or 42 years old...
If you ask me.. ITS NOT.. |
As I pointed out, it's more akin to grossing 45K in North America. But lets go with your raw figure. 30K for a 22 year old. Great. 32 or 42? Nope. Pathetic if you're 42 and you're here because you're unemployable back at home and you can't earn more. But what if you're 42 and you're taking a break from your career, shifting gears, and in dire need of a fun and funky working vacation that lets you save some money and spend spend spend without having to worry too much? Super, in my correct opinion. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:47 am Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| IIt's like big financial weight-watchers camp. |
That's one thing I liked about living in Seattle so far away from my social safety net. When you're an H1B worker, you're a slave to your company. If they don't want you anymore, you have to move home. Seattle to Toronto is a long, expensive way. It makes you plan for the worse. And it makes you second guess major purchases. "Why should I buy that for my apartment when I'm going to move in a couple years?"
Also you're far away from your friends and away from the spending culture that developed with them. "Come on... just one more plate of sushi dude!" |
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dutchman
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: My backyard
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 5:39 am Post subject: |
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I've always felt a far better measurement of income is how much you save each month as opposed to how much you make each month. Have any of you ever read "The Millionaire Next Door?" It's a great read for anyone wanting motivation to save. The authors profile typical millionaires. They aren't the people one might expect. They are the small biz owners, electricians...not the doctors and lawyers. The key is living below your means. My wife and I have been living far below our means for the last six years and are now ready to leave Korea with a sweet chunk of change.
Here's a link to the book if anyone is interested:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0671015206/002-7476407-3301648?v=glance |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| Daechidong Waygookin wrote: |
What do you do then?
You still dont get it. You cant compare it dollar for dollar.
Those people may make more money than me but they are scraping by from paycheck to paycheck and living in dumps. |
im not comparing it dollar for dollar..
ok what would you be earning back home with a uni degree?
I have friends earning 70K plus benefits..
not to mention health care all free also..
sure they buy a house.. have a morgage.. SO WHAT..
thats what people will do here.. they will live frugal and save money to return to use that money for a deposit.. either way the money is being spent..
if you could earn 30K after taxes in canada would you be here or there?
Im not saying the money and life in korea is bad..
I guess what I was trying to say was..
IS this the best we can do?
uni grads to make a decent life.. need to live in korea and earn 30K a year...
sure can save 1k a month.. but can save 1 k a month back home if you get a good job.. isnt that what a degree is for? to get a high paying job?
anyway I happy living in korea. foreign country etc...
easy money for less hours..
but the life style is way different ... my brother has a boat, 3 houses, 2 cars, etc... morgages... but hey.. he is living a lifestyle...
what I am going to save all my money.. living in korea so I can just go and buy a boat out right???
get what I am trying say?
either way the money is spent...
anyway im happy with the life I am chose..
what about you dudes..? |
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dutchman
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: My backyard
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| itaewonguy wrote: |
anyway I happy living in korea.
what I am going to save all my money.. living in korea so I can just go and buy a boat out right???
get what I am trying say?
either way the money is spent...
anyway im happy with the life I am chose..
what about you dudes..? |
Seriously, are you a native English speaker? |
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philinkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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yeah i see what your saying. your bro really does have a good life. for me im 24 almost 25, in my second year here. for me id have to say im happy with my life at the moment. my first year i just enjoyed my job, took some great vacations and lived a party lifestyle and never intended to save.
i came back and lived in seoul, do a few private classes, teach adults to vary my experience and have been studying korean which is cool. ive been saving a nice amount.
your bro has a cool life. i guess for me i dont really value the lifestyle in england, i think k lifestyle is great for me at the moment and id much rather be here now than there. im going to keep putting money away and enjoying my time here. i may stay a 3rd year but not sure yet if i can improve my situation.
im interested in studying counselling and getting into that which is usually as a career change from something like teaching so i may use some of the money i save to do that. i like my free lifestyle right now and living with my options open and enjoying this unique experience. i dont want to nail myself into england lifetsyle and im not sure if even if i had a lot of money if id still see it as ideal or not. i have friends here who ditched jobs earning 28,000 pounds a year, one guy 42,000 pounds a year to come out here and get a different lifestyle.
i respect them for having the nerve to do this and ditch this conventional lifestyle and thinking. the thing with korea i think is that the majority of people are in some sort of limbo, saving some cash then deciding what they really want. the post about how 'much is living in korea is reality' was an interesting one. teaching here is cool for now. getting good deals and saving lots can make a great unique lifetstyle but i dont want to do this and live like this my whole life or i would feel like a loser. whatever happens i ultimately want the car house family. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| dutchman wrote: |
| itaewonguy wrote: |
anyway I happy living in korea.
what I am going to save all my money.. living in korea so I can just go and buy a boat out right???
get what I am trying say?
either way the money is spent...
anyway im happy with the life I am chose..
what about you dudes..? |
Seriously, are you a native English speaker? |
No. He's Italian. And according to him Italians always do it better. |
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dutchman
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: My backyard
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| dutchman wrote: |
| itaewonguy wrote: |
anyway I happy living in korea.
what I am going to save all my money.. living in korea so I can just go and buy a boat out right???
get what I am trying say?
either way the money is spent...
anyway im happy with the life I am chose..
what about you dudes..? |
Seriously, are you a native English speaker? |
No. He's Italian. And according to him Italians always do it better. |
 Okay. That explains it. |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| dutchman wrote: |
| itaewonguy wrote: |
anyway I happy living in korea.
what I am going to save all my money.. living in korea so I can just go and buy a boat out right???
get what I am trying say?
either way the money is spent...
anyway im happy with the life I am chose..
what about you dudes..? |
Seriously, are you a native English speaker? |
NO.. ok, does that make you feel better now??
should I ask permission from you before I post on this board too?Is it ok
that I post here??
DUTCHMAN!!
you stupid IDIOT!!! |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| dutchman wrote: |
| itaewonguy wrote: |
anyway I happy living in korea.
what I am going to save all my money.. living in korea so I can just go and buy a boat out right???
get what I am trying say?
either way the money is spent...
anyway im happy with the life I am chose..
what about you dudes..? |
Seriously, are you a native English speaker? |
No. He's Italian. And according to him Italians always do it better. |
now you're taking brother!! now you're talking!!! |
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dutchman
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: My backyard
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| itaewonguy wrote: |
| dutchman wrote: |
| itaewonguy wrote: |
anyway I happy living in korea.
what I am going to save all my money.. living in korea so I can just go and buy a boat out right???
get what I am trying say?
either way the money is spent...
anyway im happy with the life I am chose..
what about you dudes..? |
Seriously, are you a native English speaker? |
NO.. ok, does that make you feel better now??
should I ask permission from you before I post on this board too?Is it ok
that I post here??
DUTCHMAN!!
you stupid IDIOT!!! |
Wow. I'm sensing a lot of hostility.  |
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