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tatertot
Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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 Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:37 am Post subject: |
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To crossmr:
I don't really have many serious thoughts about the Korean education system one way or another. I'm not married, or even dating anyone, so I won't have to think about it for a long time, either. With that said, your argument that it is good enough for some, so it should be good enough for all, is specious. The US public school system was good enough for me, so it must be good enough for everyone then, right? That is clearly not the case since so many people are failing to succeed in the US education system.
Some possible complaints (the arguments can be made, but I'm not saying I agree or disagree with them) about the Korean education system:
1) The students study for far too many hours.
2) The students learn memorization but not critical thinking.
3) Teachers hit the students and shouldn't do this.
There are probably others, as well. And there are certainly benefits to the Korean education system. The students are far above the US in mathematical ability, for example.
What is your motivation for attacking the people who feel Korean education is not ideal for their kids? It doesn't make sense to me. They aren't saying that you can't send your kids to Korean school if and when you should choose to do so. There are some people who just seem compelled to defend Korea under all circumstances, and it seems like you are one of them. However, Korea is not perfect. It has faults, just like every other country in the world. You need to open your eyes to this truth. |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:41 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I don't really have many serious thoughts about the Korean education system one way or another. I'm not married, or even dating anyone, so I won't have to think about it for a long time, either. With that said, your argument that it is good enough for some, so it should be good enough for all, is specious. The US public school system was good enough for me, so it must be good enough for everyone then, right? That is clearly not the case since so many people are failing to succeed in the US education system. |
Wasn't my argument at all, carry on. |
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exit86
Joined: 17 May 2006
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:59 am Post subject: |
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We also must remember that some of the folks who have posted here
with a negative view of Korean schools are parents; and, as a parent myself, I can say that most parents are ultra-protective of their kids and only want the best for them. This makes non-Korean parents in Korea
much more sensitive to things which affect their children. Unfortunately, there really are a lot of things with Korean education which show up on a parent's protective radar: corporal punishment (hitting my kid), physical punishment (the arms up deal), overcrowded classrooms (average 40 students), old, out-dated buildings with a dearth of facilities for students,
nationalistic/ethnocentric/ethno-exclusive indoctrination in "Ethics" or "Sociology" classes, etc. These things do exist and are matters of great consideration for folks with kids in Korea.
On the other hand, it is reassuring to hear the positive comments from parents here as well.
I'd love to hear more from parents and informed individuals. |
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tatertot
Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I don't really have many serious thoughts about the Korean education system one way or another. I'm not married, or even dating anyone, so I won't have to think about it for a long time, either. With that said, your argument that it is good enough for some, so it should be good enough for all, is specious. The US public school system was good enough for me, so it must be good enough for everyone then, right? That is clearly not the case since so many people are failing to succeed in the US education system. |
Wasn't my argument at all, carry on. |
That's strange...it seems to be the gist of the argument I have quoted below.
| crossmr wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Therefore, I am wondering about the whole high-end education market here in Korea; because, it seems to me that there may be a great deal too many similarites between your Lotte/Hyundai/Shinsegae Dept. stores and such "superior" kindergartens and schools. |
I'm wondering why the system that likely educated your (using this generally) significant other and provided a fine human being for you to marry isn't sufficient for your children... |
You are arguing that the education system was good enough for someone's significant other, so it should be good enough for someone's children. Isn't that, in fact, the same argument? |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| tatertot wrote: |
| crossmr wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I don't really have many serious thoughts about the Korean education system one way or another. I'm not married, or even dating anyone, so I won't have to think about it for a long time, either. With that said, your argument that it is good enough for some, so it should be good enough for all, is specious. The US public school system was good enough for me, so it must be good enough for everyone then, right? That is clearly not the case since so many people are failing to succeed in the US education system. |
Wasn't my argument at all, carry on. |
That's strange...it seems to be the gist of the argument I have quoted below.
| crossmr wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Therefore, I am wondering about the whole high-end education market here in Korea; because, it seems to me that there may be a great deal too many similarites between your Lotte/Hyundai/Shinsegae Dept. stores and such "superior" kindergartens and schools. |
I'm wondering why the system that likely educated your (using this generally) significant other and provided a fine human being for you to marry isn't sufficient for your children... |
You are arguing that the education system was good enough for someone's significant other, so it should be good enough for someone's children. Isn't that, in fact, the same argument? |
No. I didn't say it must be, I was questioning why they felt it wasn't. |
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tatertot
Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: |
| tatertot wrote: |
| crossmr wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I don't really have many serious thoughts about the Korean education system one way or another. I'm not married, or even dating anyone, so I won't have to think about it for a long time, either. With that said, your argument that it is good enough for some, so it should be good enough for all, is specious. The US public school system was good enough for me, so it must be good enough for everyone then, right? That is clearly not the case since so many people are failing to succeed in the US education system. |
Wasn't my argument at all, carry on. |
That's strange...it seems to be the gist of the argument I have quoted below.
| crossmr wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Therefore, I am wondering about the whole high-end education market here in Korea; because, it seems to me that there may be a great deal too many similarites between your Lotte/Hyundai/Shinsegae Dept. stores and such "superior" kindergartens and schools. |
I'm wondering why the system that likely educated your (using this generally) significant other and provided a fine human being for you to marry isn't sufficient for your children... |
You are arguing that the education system was good enough for someone's significant other, so it should be good enough for someone's children. Isn't that, in fact, the same argument? |
No. I didn't say it must be, I was questioning why they felt it wasn't. |
Now you're just playing the semantics game. In the post I quoted above, you implied that Korean schools should be good enough for people's children, even though you never said it. When taken with the other posts you made (now quoted below) your stance is clearly that Korea's school system is "good enough," even though you never say it outright.
| crossmr wrote: |
| Most people living in Korea with children have ended up marrying Koreans. I never said you had to take your kids to tibet, but when you manage to pull your head out of your [mod edit] you might be able to figure it out. When faced with the same system that educated their spouse, why is it suddenly such a death trap? |
| crossmr wrote: |
| My question to them would be the same. if they turned out all right, what exactly is the issue? Are their better alternatives? probably, but are they worth $20,000 a year or moving to another country? |
| crossmr wrote: |
As I said, my you was a general you. there are people here bagging on the education system who are married to Koreans and who I assume respect what their partner is. They are likely a product of that education system. So while there may be better alternatives, it doesn't make it the death trap that some people are making it out to be.
So I was curious why it was sufficient to provide them an acceptable partner, but apparently the 9th circle of hell for their children. |
| crossmr wrote: |
It also drives many people not to kill themselves. I had people in my school and community commit suicide while I was growing up. Doesn't mean I automatically think its the worst place ever. And really when we look at it, while Korea is number 1, the number itself isn't that excessive.
The difference is 0.026% of people kill themselves in Korea vs say 0.011% in the US. If Korea were sitting at 0.5% or something like that I might consider it a "great number". Wifey made it out as did 99.974% of Koreans.
You could probably find many people who feel school was a hole back home as well.
Yet many here would claim its the promise land compared to Korea. |
And I'm still curious why you argue with people over every complaint made about Korea. I can admit that there are a lot of ridiculous complaints made on this board, and I think it's fine to show just how stupid they really are. There are also many valid complaints, though. Criticizing the Korean public school system seems to be one of them. After all, why do Korean parents send their children to hagwons? Is it because the Korean public schools are so good?
Why do you have to fight about everything that paints Korea in a negative light? What is your motivation for doing so? |
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Countrygirl
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Location: in the classroom
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| exit86 wrote: |
We also must remember that some of the folks who have posted here
with a negative view of Korean schools are parents; and, as a parent myself, I can say that most parents are ultra-protective of their kids and only want the best for them. This makes non-Korean parents in Korea
much more sensitive to things which affect their children. Unfortunately, there really are a lot of things with Korean education which show up on a parent's protective radar: corporal punishment (hitting my kid), physical punishment (the arms up deal), overcrowded classrooms (average 40 students), old, out-dated buildings with a dearth of facilities for students,
nationalistic/ethnocentric/ethno-exclusive indoctrination in "Ethics" or "Sociology" classes, etc. These things do exist and are matters of great consideration for folks with kids in Korea.
On the other hand, it is reassuring to hear the positive comments from parents here as well.
I'd love to hear more from parents and informed individuals. |
I'd have to say that my daughter's school is only 8 years old with new computers and TV's etc so I wouldn't say that it's outdated.
Most posters also think that Korean kids spend all their time studying, but it's only the students who are going to tons of hogwans that are overworked. I'd have to say that my kids don't have enough homework. My complaint would be that some teachers don't really teach but expect the students to do their real learning at the hogwans.
My biggest beef would be the focus on marks here. But my children know that I don't care what mark they get as long as they do their best. And I'm glad that my kids care about doing well in school. They should do really well in Canada when we go back.
All in all, at the elementary level, I'd say there are pros and cons to both Western schools and Korean schools. My kid's schooling in Vancouver was fine but I wouldn't ever let my kids go to the school in the hick town I lived in when I was growing up. |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Now you're just playing the semantics game. In the post I quoted above, you implied that Korean schools should be good enough for people's children, even though you never said it. When taken with the other posts you made (now quoted below) your stance is clearly that Korea's school system is "good enough," even though you never say it outright. |
Well when you incorrectly interpret what I was saying, then yes, semantics are important since you missed the subtlety.
| Quote: |
And I'm still curious why you argue with people over every complaint made about Korea. I can admit that there are a lot of ridiculous complaints made on this board, and I think it's fine to show just how stupid they really are. There are also many valid complaints, though. Criticizing the Korean public school system seems to be one of them. After all, why do Korean parents send their children to hagwons? Is it because the Korean public schools are so good?
Why do you have to fight about everything that paints Korea in a negative light? What is your motivation for doing so? |
I asked a question, do you have something to fear from questions?
I never said their concerns weren't valid, I was simply looking for perspective. It seemed that many people in this thread and others idealize the school system back home, but last I checked it wasn't exactly that great either. Both of my parents have worked in the public school system for a long time and I spent a bit of time in it before I came here as well. For those whose only exposure to it is fond memories of the playground in 4th grade, they may not realize the amount of crap that goes on the system they think is better and for those in their 30s (which would be the age for most people with school age children) if they've never worked in the school system back home or been gone a long time may not realize how things have changed lately.
Are there valid complaints? Sure, like any system. Is it the boogie monster some people make it out to be? I don't think so, I know plenty of fine people who have come out of it. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:34 am Post subject: |
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I've always wondered why people here seem so critical on Korean education. My education in Canada was terrible. I had some false impression that Korean students were motivated and well behaved. But in reality, minus the violence and direct aggressiveness, are similar to students back home. In all honesty, I kind of like the Korean education system. People are right saying schools don't exactly promote innovation and being creative here. But schools in Canada are pretty similar in not encouraging being creative. And what's being "creative" supposed to mean?
Whole language learning? It's okay to think 1+1 = 5? Personally, based on my teenage years, most teens aren't that motivated, especially ones that live in developed countries. I have no dreams, because coming from a developed country sucks dreams out of you, and most things are handed to you IMHO. |
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benohare
Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| My education in Canada was terrible. |
I agree. I left school innumerate and illiterate and was told it's OK cos I'm dyslexic when in fact I should have been told to sit down and repeat your times tables till you remembered them.
Years after leaving school I decided to just put the hard work in and learn to read, write and rithmatic.
It didn't need to be fun. It didn't need to be engaging. It just needed to be done. |
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Easter Clark
Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Location: Hiding from Yie Eun-woong
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: |
I'm wondering why the system that likely educated your (using this generally) significant other and provided a fine human being for you to marry isn't sufficient for your children... |
Generally, one's s.o. isn't half-Korean / half-something-else. |
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Faunaki
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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I guess it would all depend on where you live. If you could get your kids into a Gangnam public school then the level of education would be high.
I've thought about this a lot and think it'd probably be better to raise kids in the Korean education system because they'd be less likely to start screwing up their lives so early. I know that by the time I was in gr. 8 most of my classmates (myself included) were into partying and never studied once. It was all about sex, drugs and rock n roll. I don't see so much of that here, not even in the poorer areas.
Still I want my kids to grow up in Canada, mainly because I have family there, if I didn't I'd raise my kids here then pack them off to uni in the homeland. |
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Captain Obvious
Joined: 23 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Actually it's when they're ready for college that I'd be most worried. They'll only be prepared for a system that's pretty darn useless sometimes. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| exit86 wrote: |
We also must remember that some of the folks who have posted here
with a negative view of Korean schools are parents; . |
Actually in the other thread about this...just about everybody who had a negative view of Korean schools WASN'T a parent. It tended to be the people with kids who said the schools were generally O.K.
Many had no complaints so far. |
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youtuber
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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I taught in the Canadian system and I would agree that it is terrible. I don't think creativity is encouraged in the Canuck schools, but rather in daily life.
The Korean system seems to do a pretty good job of teaching the kids to be little math wizzes, which is probably the most important skill to have.
Creativity is mostly developed outside of school with the encouragement of creative parents. If the parents don't create anything, they shouldn't expect that their kids will. Uncreative parents expecting the school to instill creativity in their children is just another unrealistic demand placed on the Canadian teachers who are already treated like crap in so many ways.
In fact, if you read the bios of many inventors, musicians, writers, ect ect, they often say that they were bored at school and many have dropped out. |
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