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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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 Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| asylum seeker wrote: |
If you're referring to the moral hazard created by bailing out the big banks I agree this was a bad decision, but this happened after the crisis had begun. In 2002 the Bush administration loosened restrictions on banking activity which allowed banks to create all the dodgy financial products which brought the system down. |
The moral hazard has origins dating back way further than 2002. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:39 am Post subject: |
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Again, could you not have just said this pages ago? There is no country on this planet that has the system you want - it does not exist.
If you want to talk about ideals, I'm game for that too. I'd like a country that makes all of its hot women wear bikinis... all the time!
I'm sure everyone on this board has their ideal place... but that wasn't my question.
You set out a series of conditions, and I asked you which country has that - you now have said none. Thank you. Enjoy the rest of your fantasizing on your own. |
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Rusty Shackleford
Joined: 08 May 2008
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:46 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
Again, could you not have just said this pages ago? There is no country on this planet that has the system you want - it does not exist.
If you want to talk about ideals, I'm game for that too. I'd like a country that makes all of its hot women wear bikinis... all the time!
I'm sure everyone on this board has their ideal place... but that wasn't my question.
You set out a series of conditions, and I asked you which country has that - you now have said none. Thank you. Enjoy the rest of your fantasizing on your own. |
Don't you find it a little strange that the richest country in history was founded on, and followed for some time, the principles that you so glibly dismiss? Do you not think there could be something going on there? |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
Hypothetical talk is cheap, I want to see an actual example, and then I want to know why people aren't flocking to it. |
The world has been moving away from various forms of dictatorial rule, and socialism throughout history. A few steps forward, a few steps back.
America suffered from the socialistic system of slavery which violates the fundamental principle of liberty and of free markets until after the Civil War. So, from sometime after that, until 1913, America was fairly free. This was the time of greatest freedom, greatest economic expansion, and greatest improvement in living conditions and working conditions in history anywhere in the world. Economists have calculated that had we continued without all the evil, socialist programs beginning with the Federal Reserve, Federal Income Tax and Social Security, since 1913, the standard of living of the US and the World would be 10 times what it is today and 500 million to 1 billion additional high paid jobs would have been created around the world. |
So, you're unable to find an actual example ... and all that you have are hypotheticals or 100 year old guesswork. |
You are unable to read and analyze I take it.
Historically, the world has had government control. Various systems of government control have caused the dark ages, prevented the advancement of the American Indians, enslaved ethnic groups and nations, and prevented the advancement of mankind. Occasionally, the world saw some states that experimented with various levels of liberty and blossomed. In states with just some freedom, even when just some classes of the people were free, the advancement of man was much more rapid. Of course, the government, king, tribal leaders, socialist rulers or what have you, has slowed or prevented most advancement.
After thousands of years of the failure of government, and the failure of socialism in particular, the world has been moving toward a system of free markets a few hundred years now. We have seen the most rapid periods of advancement during the periods of greatest freedom. However, we have not seen a straight line progression. The socialists and power-seeking political classes have clawed back, creating power for themselves, starting wars, causing depressions and setbacks in the progress toward liberty.
The Federal Reserve and Federal Income Tax have caused much devastation. The socialists took control of the schools and most of the people are too ignorant and miseducated to understand the roll that the government plays in their problems. They buy the lies.
However, these days we are about to see another revolution and another leap forward toward liberty. Millions of people have become aware that the banks had nothing to do with the current depression. They know it was caused by the Federal Reserve. During the First Great Depression, the people were unaware. Over 99% bought the government lie. That depression was caused by the government: the Federal Reserve printing money unbacked by gold, the Smoot-Hawley tariff, Hoover and FDR's massive government interventions caused the banks to fail, the stockmarket to crash, and the economy to remain in a depression until 1943.
This time we have the Bush/Obama depression again caused by the government: the Federal Reserve, the end of the gold standard under Nixon, the housing bubble caused by the government lending agencies and government pressure to lend to anyone without regard to ability to pay, the government's now 99 trillion dollar debt, among other government causes. The bing banks were actually victims. Not innocent victims, they knew what was coming and should have been prepared and should have been screaming a warning. They should also have been allowed to fail.
You see, economies are very long term aggregates of human activity. Change comes in long cycles, and we are on a downward tack caused by the socialists. After the total collapse of this 18th and 19th century dogma, we will turn back to the natural progression toward free markets that has a historically established long wave pattern now.
Libertarianism has not been adopted in any country yet, of course, as it is the newest political idea around, having only been created and fully explained in the last quarter of the 20th century. From only a handful of academics in the 1950s, there are tens of millions of Libertarians around the globe with Libertarian officeholders elected in dozens of countries and Libertarian parties and groups in over 90 countries. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
[q
However, these days we are about to see another revolution and another leap forward toward liberty.. |
Kind of like the Ron Paul tsunami then? |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:36 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
Hypothetical talk is cheap, I want to see an actual example, and then I want to know why people aren't flocking to it. |
The world has been moving away from various forms of dictatorial rule, and socialism throughout history. A few steps forward, a few steps back.
America suffered from the socialistic system of slavery which violates the fundamental principle of liberty and of free markets until after the Civil War. So, from sometime after that, until 1913, America was fairly free. This was the time of greatest freedom, greatest economic expansion, and greatest improvement in living conditions and working conditions in history anywhere in the world. Economists have calculated that had we continued without all the evil, socialist programs beginning with the Federal Reserve, Federal Income Tax and Social Security, since 1913, the standard of living of the US and the World would be 10 times what it is today and 500 million to 1 billion additional high paid jobs would have been created around the world. |
So, you're unable to find an actual example ... and all that you have are hypotheticals or 100 year old guesswork. |
You are unable to read and analyze I take it. |
NO, I just get bored with BS quickly.
I asked a simple question, and now have my answer. There is no country to meets his requirements.
Got it. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
[q
However, these days we are about to see another revolution and another leap forward toward liberty.. |
Kind of like the Ron Paul tsunami then? |
The Ron Paul Revolution has resulted in a fundraising arm for liberty that never existed before.
In 2010 there will be dozens, maybe hundreds, of "Ron Pauls" running for office at various levels in various parties.
The tsunami is still growing and rolling on. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:36 am Post subject: |
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Thomas Sowell:
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Many of the things the government does that may seem stupid are not stupid at all, from the standpoint of the elected officials or bureaucrats who do these things.
The current economic downturn that has cost millions of people their jobs began with successive administrations of both parties pushing banks and other lenders to make mortgage loans to people whose incomes, credit history and inability or unwillingness to make a substantial down payment on a house made them bad risks. Was that stupid? Not at all. The money that was being put at risk was not the politicians' money, and in most cases was not even the government's money. Moreover, the jobs that are being lost by the millions are not the politicians' jobs� and jobs in the government's bureaucracies are increasing.
No one pushed these reckless mortgage lending policies more than Congressman Barney Frank, who brushed aside warnings about risk, and said in 2003 that he wanted to "roll the dice" even more in the housing markets. But it would very rash to bet against Congressman Frank's getting re-elected in 2010.
After the cascade of economic disasters that began in the housing markets in 2006 and spread into the financial markets in Wall Street and even overseas, people in the private sector pulled back. Banks stopped making so many risky loans. Home buyers began buying homes they could afford, instead of going out on a limb with "creative"� and risky� financing schemes to buy homes that were beyond their means.
But politicians went directly in the opposite direction.....
http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell112409.php3 |
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