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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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 Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Koveras wrote: |
| It costs $200 to spay a cat. A typical farm has 15 or more cats. |
I was missing something then. I thought it was cheaper, when I got my dog from the pound it cost $75 and he was neutered as part of the cost. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
Heck I knew a guy form back home who disposed of the excess cats on his farm by burying them to their necks and running them over with a lawnmower.  |
Did you call the police? |
We had to deal with unwanted kittens too. We'd put them in a potato sack with rocks and throw them in the pond. This upset my city-slicker cousin who insisted we stop. The compromise was to put the kittens out in the trees and let the foxes at them. Either way you get the same outcome. I don't know if being torn apart by foxes is better than drowning.
The cats on a farm are for rodent control. If there are too many they become a pest themselves. They aren't worth a .22 round. |
Maybe I'm missing something, but couldn't people get the cats fixed and not have kittens? |
Sure the farmer can go to the ole' money tree orchard to have that taken care of by the local vet.
Well then you should know better.
So in winter your stray cats left the rabbits and the chickens alone?
Farmers are some of the gentlest people towards animals, but they know the difference between livestock, vermin, and pets.
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| In my exp. a well-cared-for pet does not tend to stray, seek out extra food or do damage. They live within a clearly defined territory which they do not wonder from, which is delineated by their master...which they see as the pack leader. |
Never owned beagles have you?
Yes my parents Persian cat never strayed, nor did my friend's rat Paris Hilton dog.
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| The problem really.. is strays..that have to find ways to fend for themselves. here we come back to the problem of people neglecting or abandoning pets. |
If you had zero pet abandonment you'd still have a massive stray problem.
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What I'm saying is that humans have an instinctive tendency to demonise and victimise any animals that they do not own or control. Usually through a whole lot of unsubstantiated hearsay and without evidence.
"Hawks kill lambs"
"Crows peck out sheeps eyes"
"Wolves eat babies"
"Cats kill livestock"...etc.
its all a load of superstitious and unfounded baloney invented as an excuse for people to go out and kill stuff that they don't really understand. |
Osiris, Isis, Hindus, Dragons, and whole slew of other animals have been idealized/idolized throughout history.
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"Hawks kill lambs"
"Crows peck out sheeps eyes"
"Wolves eat babies"
"Cats kill livestock" |
HAW. Go ahead and open up your fantasy farm with 50 stray cats right next to your chicken coop, goose flock, and rabbit pens. See how well that goes. I'm sure they'll all be circle dancing to some tune like in the cartoons.
Get some stray dogs too. And those wolves. And give the crows free reign over your crops. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Heck I knew a guy form back home who disposed of the excess cats on his farm by burying them to their necks and running them over with a lawnmower. |
Did you call the police? |
We had to deal with unwanted kittens too. We'd put them in a potato sack with rocks and throw them in the pond. This upset my city-slicker cousin who insisted we stop. The compromise was to put the kittens out in the trees and let the foxes at them. Either way you get the same outcome. I don't know if being torn apart by foxes is better than drowning.
The cats on a farm are for rodent control. If there are too many they become a pest themselves. They aren't worth a .22 round. |
Maybe I'm missing something, but couldn't people get the cats fixed and not have kittens? |
I don't know about every farm, but the one I was on had maybe a dozen or so cats. They didn't have names. They were just cats. The foxes/coyotes got some, some died, some left. Just cats. We were not going to have every cat that came across our property spayed at the vet. We didn't take them to get vaccinated either. Nor did we put a little bell on their neck and feed them Fancy Feast in a wine glass. They were just cats.
It is just a different world. My cousin (different cousin) a few months back had a sick horse. Had to be put down. His new wife (from Vernon BC) wanted the horse to have anesthesia and be sedated and then killed with chemicals. She was hysterical on the phone with the vet. The vet kept saying "let me speak to the man of the house". Wife got sent to town and the horse got a slug between the eyes. That's how it goes. I've been away for so long that I'm not used to it anymore. That is where our food comes from. Don't fuss about it. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Farmers are some of the gentlest people towards animals, but they know the difference between livestock, vermin, and pets. |
A large majority of my family are farmers, and while they are certainly as gentle as the next person towards their pets, they have little more than a strict utilitarian attitude towards every other animal. Therefore, I take this assertion of yours, among a few others you've made in this thread, to be worth very little.
For instance, let's take the defense you offered of your friend back home who "disposed of the excess cats on his farm by burying them to their necks and running them over with a lawnmower." This is what you said:
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| He saw it as the quickest way to do it- Step 1- Gather Stray cats. Step 2- Terminate Instantly. |
There seems to be an awful lot involved in that step 2, namely digging either a hole for each cat or one large one for a whole group, keeping the cats from escaping while shoveling dirt back into the hole and onto them, making sure only their heads are exposed, and finally fetching the lawnmower. There should be one additional step, but I'll ignore it and assume he doesn't bother washing off the vast amounts of bloody cat bits afterwards. I think that's a fair assumption to make considering someone of such a bloodthirsty and depraved nature would surely enjoy the gory trophies.
It's fairly clear this was not the most efficient way to dispose of these animals, no matter whether or not you consider them to be pests. I imagine this is what happens several miles down the road of putting slugs inside rings of salt.
In almost every scenario I can imagine, the most humane executions are also the quickest (in terms of the farmer's time) and most efficient (a bullet to the head or a two-by-four between the head and neck come to mind). And really, unless you're dealing with hordes of something, it's more than reasonable to expect someone to spend the extra couple minutes it would take to walk to the barn and grab a plank of wood or a gun.
As for this...
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| This won't win me popularity points but in spite of that I was his friend as well. It's his farm, anything that comes on that farm he can do with as he pleases. What he did was no crueler than anyone who raises rabbits, beef or chicken. What because cats are cute that makes it wrong? |
Any unnecessary cruelty to any animal is despicable, and I wish more people would boycott large factory farms that engage in such practices (or the government and law enforcement step in and force changes). That doesn't excuse your friend from being sadistic, nor you for not only failing to stand up to him but going the extra mile and defending him.
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| The guy was loyal. No way would I fink him to the police. Especially the cops of Lenawee Co. Frankly I think your nuts if you choose the police over your friends. |
You must be extremely desparate for friends if that's what you choose. And what's this about choosing the police over him anyway? The police don't benefit from you reporting your friend's illegal activities; the animals that he will probably torture and mutilate in the future do.
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| To anyones pets he'd be as gentle as a lamb, but he drew a clear distinct line between pet and animal. That's another reason I didn't fink him or get too upset, he wasn't morally wishy-washy about it. He didn't have a guilty conscience over it. The cats were pests like rats or cockroaches and he acted accordingly. |
Of course he wasn't "morally wishy-washy;" he's obviously very short on morals to begin with. Let me ask you this, since you brought it up: when you find a cockroach in your apartment, do you A) quickly crush it to death, or B) pick it up and chop it into thin slices from antennae to thorax? And hell, that's even a poor example to use, because at least cockroaches don't have the capacity to experience any pain from that. I wish I hadn't just imagined this, but what would you have thought if his lawnmower stalled midway through one of the cats' skulls?
There's so much wrong with what you've said, I could probably write a ****ing thirty page dissertation on it. Unfortunately I have to get back to slaughtering stuff in video games. Maybe later. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| or instance, let's take the defense you offered of your friend back home who "disposed of the excess cats on his farm by burying them to their necks and running them over with a lawnmower." This is what you said: |
I said I didn't agree with it, but I offered his rationale and it satisfied things. I mean he also made the point that he could let them starve or run around clubbing them or picking them up and since there were adult cats twisting their necks off was likelier to involve scratches than a simple catch. His big thing was getting them all in one place at once without scratches and killing them in one fell swoop. That was HIS idea of efficiency. Me personally I'd rather be less efficient and more costly and just shoot them, but I'm not going to argue with a person over killing methods. Killing is cruel. Arguing over more or less cruel is so pointless.
That's my point. That all the people on this thread trying to act noble are just the same as him. There is NO difference. You are killing animals. Don't give me this "But my way is humane" nonsense. If keeping animals in crowded pens is the difference between a Taco Bell taco being 75 cents and $5.50 you'd want them in those pens.
Vegetarians and non-leather wearers can say whatever and they are probably right. More power too em. Everyone else is just a soapbox high-horser hypocrite.
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| You must be extremely desparate for friends if that's what you choose |
Friends are the ones that go through you through thick and thin. Sure I don't like everything the guy did, but there was loyalty. No I'm not desperate for friends. I just don't judge people harshly for something that I'm just as guilty of. I eat cheap meat. That meat is raised in brutal conditions. In no way in good conscience can I condemn that man when I go out and eat that kind of food. And neither can you if you eat processed meat. If I allowed that to have any bearing on our friendship I wouldn't be a friend. Friends don't do that to each other and don't condemn one another for something they are just as guilty of.
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| the animals that he will probably torture and mutilate in the future do. |
He restrained animals and cut off their heads.
Sounds like just what you do at your farm. Or do you eat your meat with the head still attached?
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| do you A) quickly crush it to death, or B) pick it up and chop it into thin slices from antennae to thorax? |
Neither I lay out roach bait. Or in the case of spiders and flies I just ignore them. Ants are fine until one of them bites me. Then its ant traps.
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| but what would you have thought if his lawnmower stalled midway through one of the cats' skulls? |
Same I would have thought if someone putting a slug in a steer didn't end up killing it but making it go beserk. Or any other mishap that occurs during slaughter. It happens. It sucks. You wish the animal didn't have to go through it, but at that point you just want it to die as quickly as possible.
Again your not speaking from straight first-hand here, sounds like your family isn't mentioning the gory details that happen with meat slaughter or vermin. Sometimes something goes wrong.
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| Unfortunately I have to get back to slaughtering stuff in video games. |
Nice deliberate irony I must say. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Reggie wrote: |
| I had a Korean girlfriend who called me up one day and asked me if I was familiar with cats. I told her something like, "Oh yeah, I love cats." She then told me that a cat had a litter of kittens in her garage and she was afraid of them |
Koreans are generally afraid of cats, dogs, flies, bees, pigeons, deer, horses, grasshoppers..in fact every creature in existence. This fear is also where the cruelty comes from.
I've never been afraid of a cats eyes. The cat is just mirroring the general threatening anxiety and phobia it senses in the person approaching it. Its no different when Koreans are afraid to sit next to me on the subway. They're practically trembling with aversion. Of course I sense it. What human or animal could possibly react well to such an approach?
Most Koreans grow up in urban city environments and never have exposure to or understanding of animals.I've never met a more skittish people than Koreans. Many of them have a similar nervousness around foreigners. For the same reason. |
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Princess Soraya
Joined: 30 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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Do you think I'd be let off if I kicked the living crap out of her and told the police I was drunk and had a fight with my bf? I'm willing to give it a try. 
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The cat is just mirroring the general threatening anxiety and phobia it senses in the person approaching it. Its no different when Koreans are afraid to sit next to me on the subway. They're practically trembling with aversion. Of course I sense it. What human or animal could possibly react well to such an approach?
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Pertinent point, nautilus.However, I don't really feel the need to throw Koreans out of windows despite sometimes being maddeningly incensed by their reactions to me. People need to learn some self-control and ease up on the Soju. |
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hagwonnewbie
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Location: Asia
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| Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:38 am Post subject: |
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I've read that over 90 % of animals that are purchased as pets are eventually abandoned before they die in the US.
I'm guessing that percentage may be even higher in Korea.
I can't say I've seen too many Koreans with old pets. |
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