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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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 Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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Are you kidding me?
Korean is the language that is extremely hard to pronounce.
Also, the FSI estimates it will take double the time to learn Korean as it will to learn Mongolian to a comparable level. Double. So no, Korean is harder.
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Category IV: 44 weeks (1100 hours)
Languages with significant linguistic and/or cultural differences from English
Mongolian
Category V: 88 weeks (2200 hours)
Languages which are exceptionally difficult for native English speakers
Korean |
FYI: lest you think it is possible to learn Korean in 2,200 hours, the hours listed are merely classroom hours, and the Foreign Service Institute only accepts a small percentage of applicants, that is those who are the most linguistically gifted. Students study Korean 9-10 hours a day as a full time job for over a year and a half (almost two years). They could get to that same level in Mongolian in under a year. |
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Kepler
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
Are you kidding me?
Korean is the language that is extremely hard to pronounce.
Also, the FSI estimates it will take double the time to learn Korean as it will to learn Mongolian to a comparable level. Double. So no, Korean is harder.
| Quote: |
Category IV: 44 weeks (1100 hours)
Languages with significant linguistic and/or cultural differences from English
Mongolian
Category V: 88 weeks (2200 hours)
Languages which are exceptionally difficult for native English speakers
Korean |
FYI: lest you think it is possible to learn Korean in 2,200 hours, the hours listed are merely classroom hours, and the Foreign Service Institute only accepts a small percentage of applicants, that is those who are the most linguistically gifted. Students study Korean 9-10 hours a day as a full time job for over a year and a half (almost two years). They could get to that same level in Mongolian in under a year. |
According to this link, Korean and Mongolian are equally difficult for native English speakers-
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Language_Learning_Difficulty_for_English_Speakers |
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Triban
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Location: Suwon Station
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Hmmm...who to believe, wikipedia or the Foreign Service Institute? Such a conundrum! |
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cert43
Joined: 17 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| I live in the USA;so the primary language here is English... |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| cert43 wrote: |
| I live in the USA;so the primary language here is English... |
That must be difficult for you. |
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samd
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:47 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
Are you kidding me?
Korean is the language that is extremely hard to pronounce.
Also, the FSI estimates it will take double the time to learn Korean as it will to learn Mongolian to a comparable level. Double. So no, Korean is harder.
| Quote: |
Category IV: 44 weeks (1100 hours)
Languages with significant linguistic and/or cultural differences from English
Mongolian
Category V: 88 weeks (2200 hours)
Languages which are exceptionally difficult for native English speakers
Korean |
FYI: lest you think it is possible to learn Korean in 2,200 hours, the hours listed are merely classroom hours, and the Foreign Service Institute only accepts a small percentage of applicants, that is those who are the most linguistically gifted. Students study Korean 9-10 hours a day as a full time job for over a year and a half (almost two years). They could get to that same level in Mongolian in under a year. |
The original point was that Mongolian would be hard to learn because of lack of resources, plus it's difficult for native English-speakers.
Also, there's nothing in your quote which mentions pronunciation. It's quite possible that Mongolian is harder to pronounce, but easier to learn overall, under identical classroom conditions, with expert tuition. |
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nate1983
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:59 am Post subject: |
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| cert43 wrote: |
Are you of Asian descent? If not, then why weould you have any interest in these languages 
Sorry if that sounds raciest, but there are plenty of other useful ( and easier) Romanji languages ( such as Russian, Spanish, French).... |
Huh? What does being of Asian descent have to do with anything?
Sorry, but this strikes me as a very ignorant post, especially directed at a group of people living in a foreign country. |
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cert43
Joined: 17 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:30 am Post subject: |
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Difficult? Why? Anyways, it's just speaking about lineage mindset..
No, Koreans are the ones who are ignorant...would never even attempt to learn Hanguel just based on that sheer fact.
I mean most Europeans speak like what, 4 or 5 languages? |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| nate1983 wrote: |
| What does being of Asian descent have to do with anything? |
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| I�m kyopo, so the reason for me to wanting to learn the language was obvious, but I�m positive that if I weren�t of Korean background, I would have ZERO interest in it. It just isn�t a world language, and given the complexity of it, unless you�re gonna open a business in K-Town LA or spend your whole life in Korea or something, there�s not much point in learning it. |
Exposure to Korean (in any capacity) before adulthood puts kyopos at a major advantage, and the rest of us at a major disadvantage.
| Steven Pinker wrote: |
| acquisition of a normal language is guaranteed for children up to the age of six, is steadily compromised from then until shortly after puberty, and is rare thereafter |
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cert43
Joined: 17 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| For the record: I absouluty have NOTHING against Asians ( lived there for almost 3 years) BUT there is a certain mindset that goes along with that culture, it goes way back to the Calvary Movement during the 1600s. |
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nate1983
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
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| I�m kyopo, so the reason for me to wanting to learn the language was obvious, but I�m positive that if I weren�t of Korean background, I would have ZERO interest in it. It just isn�t a world language, and given the complexity of it, unless you�re gonna open a business in K-Town LA or spend your whole life in Korea or something, there�s not much point in learning it. |
Exposure to Korean (in any capacity) before adulthood puts kyopos at a major advantage, and the rest of us at a major disadvantage.
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That seems a very anglophone way of thinking - I speak English, so why would I learn another language?
Is it easier for kyopos who've been exposed to the language to learn it? Sure, but even if you're only going to be in the country a year, the effort needed to get a decent conversational level is well worth it. Speaking an Asian language is also great from a career perspective, whether you want to do your own business, work abroad, or do anything else that relates to that country. Mandarin is the best language to learn, it's ridiculous the opportunities foreigners who learn it are getting in the business world. Japanese is a bit pass�, and Korean is a niche language for those looking to make a career in Korea. For myself, I'm fluent in English and French, can speak some Spanish, and plan on working in Asia but don't really care for China, so I think Korean is a pretty natural choice. One of the biggest complaints is that often foreign managers don't speak the local language; for Western countries to stay competitive they're going to need the language skills as the locals' English and level of experience improves, which is what set Westerners apart before. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| nate1983 wrote: |
| even if you're only going to be in the country a year, the effort needed to get a decent conversational level is well worth it. |
You are in for a big surprise...
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I'm still waiting to meet a western foreigner that speaks Korean....
Yeah a lot of westerners here don't care, but I think for a significant minority this attitude is borne out of necessity, the language is extremely difficult.
I did meet one westerner who had been here eight years. I don't have enough Korean to have given him a proper evaluation, but I would say he was conversationally fluent as opposed to knowing sufficient vocabulary and having the pronunciation of a native speaker. Anyway, he said it took him five years off and on study to get to that point. Apparently he was quite skilled at foreign languages, because he claimed to know four others.
I'd skip Korea if you're looking to learn a language for the following reasons: 1. The listening and comprehending aspect is very different. Conjugated words can sound nothing like what you would find in a dictionary. For example, you would be taught that clothes is "oat" (not spelled this way but pronounced) but if you heard someone talking about clothes, they might very well say "o-she" The "o" sound doesn't help you at all because numerous words start with an "o" sound. (Ok, that wasn't an example of a conjugation, but it popped into my mind).
Which leads me to the second issue in learning Korean: To western ears, multitudes of different words sound almost the same, and are difficult to both remember and hear. For example, Ganjung might be a word, then you would have Gunjung, Gunjang, Gunjohng, Gunjoong, etc, and they would all mean completely different things.
This might not be so bad if there wasn't so much vocabulary in the first place. Actually English has far more, but very little of it is used on a regular basis. Korean uses a greater variety of words in everyday speech. There is a formal and informal word for morning, as well as name, age, house and a multitude of other examples. You would use a completely different word for sleep when telling an elder to sleep well as opposed to someone the same age or younger. Not only would you use a different word, but the sentence would be completely different as well. To an equal you would say "Jal jai-yo". To an older person you would say "Anyong-he jumoosay-yo" To a younger person you would say "Eruhm-e moh yay-yo?" What is your name? To an older person you would say "Suhngham-e ohtdokkay dweassayo?"
In part this comes from Korean being a territory of China for hundreds of years, so about 40 percent of the vocabulary is Chinese. Unfortunately, nearly all these words have a Korean equivalent, although some of the more complex ones do not. You would use the Korean word for "left" when talking about your left hand, but use the Chinese word for left when telling a taxi driver to turn left. There are two completely different number systems, and you must use both together when telling the time. The hour uses the Korean number, while the minute uses the Chinese number.
Korean also has multiple levels of politeness for EVERY situation. Every sentence must be clear on what level it is unlike in English where many sentences are virtually the same regardless of who we are talking to. If you wanted to say hi to a child you would say "Anyong". To an equal you would say "Anyong-haseyo" to an elder or superior you would say "Anyong hasheemnikga".
Korean actually has far more complexities than this, and the fact that it has a simple alphabet is both a blessing and a curse. (When you study it for a long time you'll know what I mean, although I guess we are all welcome to learn the original Chinese characters).
The main thing that you should know is that you will not I repeat NOT attain even casual conversational fluency in a year here, assuming you are planning to teach English and here and study at the same time. It might be possible if you enrolled in a university here to study full time, but even in doing this you would not come close to conversational fluency, although that might be possible after a second year of study, assuming you have a facility for learning languages and have a high motivation.
If you're planning on teaching, probably the best you can hope for is to be able to ask answer basic questions about the weather, your job, country of origin, do you like spicy food, how old you are, how to get from point A to point B, does the supermarket have any bananas, how much does a steak cost etc. If the start to get into more details much beyond a yes or no anwer, you'll be lost. If they tell you the steak is sold out and it usually comes in every Wednesday when the meat truck guy delivers, well I'll just say anyone who can understand that in Korean after a year of studying while working, you have my admiration.
Korea is very urban by the way, beautiful would not be my first adjective in describing the place. |
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nate1983
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| nate1983 wrote: |
| even if you're only going to be in the country a year, the effort needed to get a decent conversational level is well worth it. |
You are in for a big surprise... |
I lived in Korea for nearly two years - I studied by myself before I came (enough to pass TOPIK level 3 before going to Korea)...and after leaving scored (high) level 5 on the exam. After a year there, I'd say I was pretty much conversationally fluent, meaning that I could basically talk about any subject, barring really technical stuff, at least through circumlocution. I could read and understand newspapers, books, research reports without relying too heavily on a dictionary...and I got there while teaching full time; of course I spent many hours studying, but compared to the "real world" of 60 hour weeks common for many people, I still had lots of free time. Almost any foreigner who comes to America at a relatively young age and doesn't shut themselves in their room winds up with a decent level of English after a year - there's little reason a foreigner couldn't do the same in Korea, and actually many non-English-speaking foreigners do. Being able to understand the 조선일보 사회면 is probably overkill for most people planning to close the book on their life in Korea after a year or two, but after spending 5 months in Hungary feeling like a helpless child because I couldn't speak the language, I vowed not to let that happen again before I went to Korea. Intermediate-level Korean is extremely useful for anyone in the country and not really as daunting as it first seems..basically you learn the daily vocab, a few sentence endings and connectors. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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nate1983
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:15 am Post subject: |
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That article has a point, but it greatly overestimates the layperson's exposure to English. I'm in Shanghai now, and I can guarantee you if I stopped the first 10 locals I saw outside my hotel and asked them, "What was your favorite subject in school?" I'd get at least 7 blank stares, probably 8 or 9. I've yet to meet a taxi driver here who knows how to say anything beyond "Hello." In several Korean classes, almost all my classmates were Asian, and except for one girl from HK and a Chinese girl who had an American fianc�, they had absolutely no functional English - and these were people in their 20's mind you (China, Japan, Mongolia).
In the US, we have more exposure to Spanish around us than most countries do to English, yet most Americans haven't managed to learn Spanish through osmosis.
Being familiar with the alphabet saves you about 3 hours on the front end of learning a language, since that's about how long it takes to learn either the Latin alphabet or hangeul for a new learner. It makes absolutely no difference for an intermediate or advanced student, nor does being an expert at saying, "I'm fine, thank you, and you?"
Will watching CSI or Gossip Girl in English help foreigners pick up slang and be more natural speakers? Sure, but if you're an anglophone in Korea, you have that every time you're on the bus or subway. If you wanna learn a foreign language, just incorporate it into your daily life - instead of reading the news, Wikipedia, or Harry Potter in English I would just do it in French or Korean. I also frequent French forums and post on Daum - when you don't shut yourself off in a little "English bubble," it's amazing how fast you can pick things up, plus it doesn't seem like a chore. |
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