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The "No Kids Allowed" movement is spreading---
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pucciniphile



Joined: 23 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
So every moment of every day was spent in diligence and study?

Heck, say you don't want to church because you want to sleep in or meet your friends and go on a picnic or something.

But saying church is taking up your valuable study time to read Descartes or something is just ludicrous.


I'm socially maladjusted! Remember?

Quote:
I'm not saying go to church. I'm saying if you freak out over going to church on Easter once a year as a family ritual you might have some issues.


Quote:
I'm pretty confident in assuming that someone who equates hugging grandma to child prostitution has a few screws loose.


That's one thing I like about these debates.
Everyone sticks to the subject and avoids attacking each other.


Last edited by pucciniphile on Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
For me, it's not about kids, but rather how some kids behave.

If my kid starts acting up in a restaurant, supermarket, whatever, I'll either quickly put a stop to their shenanigans, or we'll be walking out the door.

Parents need to stop saying 'it's just how kids are'.


Great point!

As for this "movement" it is cute and perhaps there is some logic to it in some very specific instances. Then again, movies have been rated for a long time by age so banning kids from movies for older audiences is a bit of overkill...its already done.

Upscale restaurants?

Up to the owner to do what he wants, then again not many parents with kids under 6 will hit the "quiet upscale restaurant" circuit anyway.

Flights?

Good luck with that one.... Laughing

Banning kids from long flights was mentionned in this thread...that is just dumb...sorry.
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rainism



Joined: 13 Apr 2011

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:


Banning kids from long flights was mentionned in this thread...that is just dumb...sorry.


can we put them in some compartment in the cargo hull or something?

I still recoil in horror at my last long flight which featured a screaming infant and a distinct lack of air conditioning, which was making me sweat my ass off in my seat wearing nothing but a cutoff T.. (the Asians on the flight were covered up with blankets)

2 pet peeves.

screaming/whiny infants/children
lack of the cold airflow/blow thingie above my seat.(seems Airbuses lack those things)

I was "this close" to going completely postal.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rainism wrote:
Quote:


Banning kids from long flights was mentionned in this thread...that is just dumb...sorry.


can we put them in some compartment in the cargo hull or something?

I still recoil in horror at my last long flight which featured a screaming infant and a distinct lack of air conditioning, which was making me sweat my ass off in my seat wearing nothing but a cutoff T.. (the Asians on the flight were covered up with blankets)

2 pet peeves.

screaming/whiny infants/children
lack of the cold airflow/blow thingie above my seat.(seems Airbuses lack those things)

I was "this close" to going completely postal.


They paid for their tickets too.

They were visiting family perhaps? so how is your right to travel more important than theirs?

Just sayin...

Now the infant (quote different from a child by the way) could have had ear issues. It happens for some. I then wonder...the infant has no way to communicate other than cry when its in pain.

You as an adult can exercise patience and understanding OR ask the cabin crew is there is another free seat on the flight.

Good luck on future flights. Smile
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Mix1



Joined: 08 May 2007

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Feloria wrote:
Mix1--don't be so hard on yourself!

I used "reactionary" after you did cuz, as you said, it sounded good!

I'm glad we have these vocabulary genuises to point out our mistakes! Very Happy


Yeah, it's fine; those people serve a valuable purpose and I actually like being corrected. I had been taught that definition of reactionary, but for some reason forgot it and it warped in my mind into something else. I was hoping there would be an alternative definition, as it sure sounded like it fit, but that's not how definitions work.
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southernman



Joined: 15 Jan 2010
Location: On the mainland again

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like children and teenagers but I think the idea of having non children restaurants and other public places does have merits but I'd prefer a simple notice that states if your child misbehaves then you will be asked to leave and you will not be refunded. That puts the emphasis squarely on each individual parent.

I've worked with hundreds of children and teenagers in the social welfare system from being a 'house' parent to ecorting juvenile offenders on flights to juvenile dentention centres.

I never had any major issues. I'm the adult so I always explained when I first met someone how I expected them to behave and what the consequences for bad behaviour would be and also what the rewards for good behaviour would be.

On my last CebuPacific flight I was surrounded by about 5-6 young children including a baby. I just looked at the airhostess and rolled my eyes, she smiled as well. Both of us weren't looking forward to that flight.
The children's behaviour was amazing each parent had something organised for the kid's to do and the kids were happy.
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Mix1



Joined: 08 May 2007

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rainism wrote:
Quote:


Banning kids from long flights was mentionned in this thread...that is just dumb...sorry.


can we put them in some compartment in the cargo hull or something?



We can just label the cargo hull: "Play Pen". Problem solved. Or just like how blankets are handed out, how about handing out ropes and gags to parents who can't control their kids on the flights? Or at the very least, free valium and wine for the adults who have to be around them?

We pay thousands of dollars for plane tickets, a free wine and valium policy sounds like a good idea regardless. And no one would be going postal either. Heck, It would even deter any would- be terrorist hijackers, since they'd be so looped up slap happy they'd forget about their grievances for a time. (ex: "Ahhhh, this is a nice flight. I'll chill out for a bit. Maybe these infidels aren't so bad after all. Wow, cleavage. Sweeeeet. What was I so mad about again? Zzzzzz.....") If that's not a pro-child policy I don't know what is.

This isn't so much about being against kids, but more about bad behavior in an enclosed public space. I'm all for kids being kids on the playground, but on a plane it's a different story. I sympathize with parents with screaming infants though since there's not much they can do, but couldn't there be a special soundproof section for them? Let's throw some Jetsons technology into the mix and make everyone's lives better.

And for the parents of toddlers, what ever happened to the concept of teaching kids "inside voices" and "outside voices"? Or "quiet time"? Had a flight where a British woman had two kids with her. Every word out of the kids' mouths was a near scream. The mom didn't help either since she kept playing games with them and kept yelling "Yay!" "Great" "3, 2, 1, GO!" "Good job!" and clapping loudly. Hey lady, good on you for engaging your kids, but the whole flight doesn't want to play along with you and your precious little angels. I was about 10 rows behind them and even with headphones blaring a movie soundtrack it was deafening. Luckily the wine kicked in just in time and I went lethargic, but still every 20 minutes or so the flight was jolted by random screaming from the kids.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pucciniphile wrote:
Steelrails wrote:
So every moment of every day was spent in diligence and study?

Heck, say you don't want to church because you want to sleep in or meet your friends and go on a picnic or something.

But saying church is taking up your valuable study time to read Descartes or something is just ludicrous.


I'm socially maladjusted! Remember?

Quote:
I'm not saying go to church. I'm saying if you freak out over going to church on Easter once a year as a family ritual you might have some issues.


Quote:
I'm pretty confident in assuming that someone who equates hugging grandma to child prostitution has a few screws loose.


That's one thing I like about these debates.
Everyone sticks to the subject and avoids attacking each other.


I have no problem questioning the sanity, character, and social well-being of someone who equates hugging their own grandmother to child prostitution.

Again, I'd ask you to consider that you might be wrong.

Look we all went through anti-authority streaks in our youth and probably thought up some weird justifications for our obnoxious behavior. The difference was that sanity took over and we realized that yes, we were the one who was wrong. Hugging grandma is good because its kind and nice and makes another person happy, a person who would give their life for you.

On the other hand a scant few allow their anger at being forced to do such a thing to metastasize into a legalistic view of the issue and develop a complex over it.
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Mix1



Joined: 08 May 2007

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pucciniphile wrote:
That's one thing I like about these debates.
Everyone sticks to the subject and avoids attacking each other.


Well, here's the deal; when one appears to be soooo far out in left field la-la land, the attacks just inevitably come.

If you are going to connect hugging a grandparent to child prostitution and some of the other random radical connections you've made, people are going to laugh. No need to take it personally, but sometimes you've got to be prepared for some friendly derision when your views and logical connections differ so much from the norm. You've been a good sport so far though...

Really? You've never played a video game ever? Not even Super Mario or Tetris? Try it sometime. Could loosen you up a bit. To start, I'd recommend a nice, family friendly, entry level game by the name of GRand Theft Auto 4.
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Feloria



Joined: 02 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course unruly disruptive kids can't be banned from long flights--they have to get to their destination,too.
I say drug unruly, screaming brats--they do it with animals Twisted Evil
I'm kidding of course, but not entirely--I've been on flights where it's been just short of torture having to listen to screaming, uncontrollable kids.
But I sit back, say nothing and bear it. I'm adult about it--it is what it is.
Of course parents will get angry at my "just drug the kids" statement-- they'll say "children act like that, sometimes they can't be controlled."
Very true, and the rest of us have to suffer for it.
"I'm just sayin'" Very Happy
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Julius



Joined: 27 Jul 2006

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how about a soundproof creche area on long flights?

One or two of the female staff would be in charge of running it and the room would include a large glass window so any anxious parents could monitor the care of their children or help out if necessry.

It would be optional, but you could charge less for kids in the creche than for those in regular seats.
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goreality



Joined: 09 Jul 2009

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think having a behavior code at an establishment is much more difficult to manage than simply banning children, it will inevitably lead to more arguments. Whether or not it's an issue of human or child rights, I think that is going to far.
Some parents even complain that their children are turned away from bars and other such generally accepted adult only places.
Asides from the many businesses that cater towards children and families, there are already many things that are only for children, such as certain rides at amusement parks and many indoor playgrounds, as well as multitudes of discounts offered to them. Is this discriminatory towards adults without children?
Heck they are even participating in Valentine's Day.
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DorkothyParker



Joined: 11 Apr 2009
Location: Jeju

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Movie ratings don't really stop parents from taking their kids to R-rated movies. Any person of any age can go when accompanied by a guardian. NC-17 movies are adult only, but a person would have to be crazy to even consider bringing a child to see that!
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Died By Bear



Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone mentioned long flights sitting in front of unruly and fearless teens that kicked their seat repeatedly, and what was that other one...small children/screaming babies on long flights.

Ban them forever. Just do it. Make parents stay where they belong in the first few years, in a house! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy I fly business and lemme tell ya, those screamers and shit drawers waft way up in front. You can't fly without a nice pair of headphones though

And as for those unruly kids kicking the seat, a short hike to where the nearest attendant is hanging out, and a well worded summary would have had an immediate effect on where I would ride out the rest of the flight. Controlled anger with measured wording is the way to go, trust me on this. Very Happy


I was on a flight sitting in business not too long ago from Tokyo to SF, a woman had her 25 New Delhi sisters sitting in economy, her ticket had been bumped. Pretty soon after the flight started, she started getting visitors from the cattle car. Four of my fellow BC travelers started looking for our attendant -she reacted like lightning, and got rid of them. She had to stick around though, because there were so many of them on the plane and they all wanted to hang out and yap all night Very Happy
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pucciniphile



Joined: 23 Jun 2011

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
Hugging grandma is good because its kind and nice and makes another person happy, a person who would give their life for you.


The next time I want to hug one of my kindergarten students,
shall I hug that child whether he wants it or not?
Suppose the director objects.
I'll just say, "But Steelrails says I have the right!"
I'm sure the director will say, "Oh, then that's different! We can't disagree with Steelrails because that will make us socially maladjusted!"
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