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Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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 Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
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Having said that, I kind of hate what I've created here. jeronimoski provides an accurate take down of UM, but I shudder from it. It's sort of like squashing a spider on the wall. He was doing his thing, he was probably more scared of me than I was of him. Oh god! What if he had kids?! I'm the bad guy in a Pixar film!
Like I said, I like bothering UM because he deserves it. But since I started calling him on the personal insults he's slowed them down (at least directed at me). . |
Like I said I don't start the personal insults unless someone starts them with me.
And it will take more than jeronimoski or your good self to take me down. What has been said so far amounts to immature schoolyard taunts. Boring....
And in reference to my last post about Korean hating ESL teachers and your claim that this is a fictional stereotype...I'll PM you a link and you can judge for yourself. |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
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Having said that, I kind of hate what I've created here. jeronimoski provides an accurate take down of UM, but I shudder from it. It's sort of like squashing a spider on the wall. He was doing his thing, he was probably more scared of me than I was of him. Oh god! What if he had kids?! I'm the bad guy in a Pixar film!
Like I said, I like bothering UM because he deserves it. But since I started calling him on the personal insults he's slowed them down (at least directed at me). . |
Like I said I don't start the personal insults unless someone starts them with me.
And it will take more than jeronimoski or your good self to take me down. What has been said so far amounts to immature schoolyard taunts. Boring....
And in reference to my last post about Korean hating ESL teachers and your claim that this is a fictional stereotype...I'll PM you a link and you can judge for yourself. |
Just out of interest, have you ever once backed down and admitted you were wrong? We all make mistakes and say stupid things sometimes.
A little humility every now and then can go a long way... |
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chrisinkorea2011
Joined: 16 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| tardisrider wrote: |
| chrisinkorea2011 wrote: |
IF, and being in this case you dont really know becuz certain things werent mentioned as in age groups etc. and sorry but 1000 is NOT big enough even if randomly picked. A miniscular portion of a group does NOT represent the entire group. Too many believe that is the notion when in actuality it isnt. Thats like saying you have 1000 people then a random group of 100 is picked and out of those 100, 25 are A and 75 are B. So because 25 are A, then they represent the 1000 people? Illogical. I dont need to look up statistics nor am I curious, i took that class in college too. but just because it says one thing, doesnt mean its infact 100% right. |
Okay, just a few points.
First, you're absolutely correct that "just because it says one thing doesn't mean it's in fact 100% right." That's why margins of error and confidence levels are important. If a stat says something like "86% percent, +4% to a confidence level of 95%" it means that the statistician has made calculations which have convinced her that 95 times out of a hundred, a sample from the population will yield results between 82% (86-4) and 90% (86+4). There is no claim that it is 100% accurate. It is an estimate.
Second, I went back and looked at the article in question. The first thing I notice is that the headline says "Most South Koreans" but the text of the article says "A majority of office workers". "South Koreans" and "office workers (in South Korea)" are very different groups. Also, the article says that the survey was done by "recruitment portal Job Korea". The article doesn't say how the sample was chosen, but it does make me wonder if Job Korea only chose participants from its own database. That would further the bias in the sampling: you're not getting a representative sample of "all Koreans" or even of "all office workers in Korea" but rather a representative sample of "people who have signed up with Job Korea". And there's nothing wrong with that, as long as it is represented honestly.
Given that, chrisinkorea2011 is absolutely correct that this study is not generalizable to the entire Korean population.
Finally, the article has no information on the questions that were asked. For example, the article says "Some 55.6 percent took exception to gatherings featuring endless rounds of drinking." Was it a yes or no question? Or maybe it was a Likert type scale, where respondents choose from a spectrum of possible answers indicating their level of agreement with a statement or the intensity of their feeling. "Dread" is a heavy word--if you ask me how I feel about a subject, there's a big difference between me saying "I'm a little nervous about X" and "I dread X". Both may indicate a "negative attitude" toward X, but lumping them together without distinction doesn't paint the most detailed picture possible.
To sum up, there are many potential problems with this survey, but sample size itself isn't one. |
damn you and your niceness lol  |
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Mr. BlackCat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
[
Having said that, I kind of hate what I've created here. jeronimoski provides an accurate take down of UM, but I shudder from it. It's sort of like squashing a spider on the wall. He was doing his thing, he was probably more scared of me than I was of him. Oh god! What if he had kids?! I'm the bad guy in a Pixar film!
Like I said, I like bothering UM because he deserves it. But since I started calling him on the personal insults he's slowed them down (at least directed at me). . |
Like I said I don't start the personal insults unless someone starts them with me.
And it will take more than jeronimoski or your good self to take me down. What has been said so far amounts to immature schoolyard taunts. Boring....
And in reference to my last post about Korean hating ESL teachers and your claim that this is a fictional stereotype...I'll PM you a link and you can judge for yourself. |
The link you provided me with was over 5 years old. I also didn't find any reference to the soju-loving brute stereotype you mentioned (though I did just skim it because...it's 5 years old). If I were to go over all the posts over the last 5 years from this site I'm sure I could find one that "proved" the lunar landing was faked. But more likely I would just admit I chose my language recklessly in order to argue a point that wasn't even mentioned in the first place.
Here, I'll go first. I used the word 'fictional' when I should have used the word 'unsupported' to describe your ESL teachers all hate adjoshis claim. Sorry about that. While I don't believe it is a common belief among the people who use this board, and you've yet to prove that it is actually a factual and real opinion held by the majority of users here, my post was more a criticism of how you present these unsupported claims and then say that you base everything on fact while the 'haters' just tell unfounded stories.
Happy holidays to everyone! May the new year bring us more understanding of how we're more similar than different! |
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happiness
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| toby99 wrote: |
| I personally love these types of parties, but I think it's also true that most of the teachers don't want to attend, particularly the women. Nonetheless, it's interesting to notice the changes in the demeanor of the group as the night wears on - during the first round everyone is very subdued, mindful of the hierarchical customs and afraid to "lose face", but by the 3-4th round those that are left (usually the adjosshi's and the more liberal younger female teachers) are drunk out of their skulls, chain-smokin, fartin, knocking back shots of soju left and right, throwing around banmal like it's going out of fashion, doing love shots with the hot young coed fresh out of ed-school, etc. So as much as some people find these parties to be an annoyance, I think many also find them to be a great way to cut loose and step outside of the cultural norms for a short while. |
thats just getting drunk. in the west, men and women get drunk together to get into other moods, here, they do that for the other moods and to lose their korean confucian uptightness, why do you think they love drinking so much? its exactly that. |
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Plume D'ella Plumeria
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Location: The Lost Horizon
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:04 am Post subject: |
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TUM does seem to be a bit of a stuffed shirt, and a tightly buttoned up and wound up guy. And yes, more than a little condescending toward certain posters on occasion.
I mean, how patronizing is "Teaching reading comprehension?" I think we all know how to read, although there are a few who do seem to have trouble comprehending what they read.
Some of his posts annoy me from time to time, but the guy does know how to debate. Whether or not his debates have any credence is for another to say.
I do enjoy Mr. Black Cat's posts. There is intelligence (and good reading comprehension) within them. And the fact that he has held out an olive branch to TUM, makes me think any further posts of his are well worth reading.
Over and out.
Merry Christmas to all and to all, a good night ... |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
| [ you've yet to prove that it is actually a factual and real opinion held by the majority of users here, ! |
(bolding mine)
Actually no I don't because I never made any such claim in the first place.
Anyway happy holidays to you as well. Later. |
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sonicmatt
Joined: 04 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| who doesnt like free booze and food |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| sonicmatt wrote: |
| who doesnt like free booze and food |
A lot of people don't when attendance is de facto mandatory, especially when the boss is a total #$#!! and so are certain coworkers. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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I had mine last night. Ate 60,000w / serving Beef, drank a crapload of Soju, and it was all finished by 10:30pm.
Too bad we only went to 2 places. I wanted to keep the night going. |
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motiontodismiss
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| sonicmatt wrote: |
| who doesnt like free booze and food |
A lot of people, especially when the booze is shoved down your throat against your will. I for one hate soju and would not touch the stuff with a 10 foot pole. I don't care if other people drink it as long as they don't ask me to imbibe more than once. Some people in this country can't get the concept that "No" means "No" and people may not like drinking rubbing alcohol.
...And no, I don't drink vodka, tequila, or whiskey either. IMO these stupid affairs would be much less dreadful if the adjeoshis moderated their drinking and left everyone else alone to drink (or NOT) in peace. Oh, and at the end of these parties it's YOUR responsibility, NOT that of the only sober person in the group, to get yourself home safely and in one piece. If you can't do that, don't down a half dozen bottles of soju (or do it at home). Your liver will thank you, your subordinates will hate you less, your kids will talk to you again, and heck, you might lose a few inches off your waist if you only drank moderately.
I wonder what these people learned in their so called "ethics" classes because even if I never had those it seems unthinkable to drag a bunch of people (who don't want to go) along just because you want to get wasted. If you want to get wasted, do it in the privacy of your own home. |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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Many times, I can sense how the staff don't really want to be at those hoesiks but have to force themselves to sort of have fun. And like I said, the asskissers use such events to bond more with the bosses, something I find so darn repulsive.
Then there is the pressure of going to subsequent places, as the drunks don't take no for an answer. |
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motiontodismiss
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:22 am Post subject: |
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If I were ever to work my way up to senior management at some of these jaebol companies, hoesiks would be the first thing I'd abolish forever (in it's "official, have-to-attend", present form anyway). Staff would be more than free to have unofficial ones, but the second ANYONE complains that they've been pressured in any way to go to these things, I'd have all the parties involved (in pressuring the complaining witness to go) fired. You may invite someone but if they say no thanks, that means no and you are to respect their wishes.
But then, I'm more rational than your average Korean, I hate these things myself, and I despise asskissers. |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| There are PLENTY of things Koreans and non-Koreans would change about Korea. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Yaya wrote: |
Many times, I can sense how the staff don't really want to be at those hoesiks but have to force themselves to sort of have fun. And like I said, the asskissers use such events to bond more with the bosses, something I find so darn repulsive.
Then there is the pressure of going to subsequent places, as the drunks don't take no for an answer. |
I find it really unprofessional as well. A lot of them also use being drunk as an excuse to get stuff off their chest. The only time they're allowed to be honest with their feelings in front of superiors is when they're drunk.
I've also been pressured to visit a prostitution establishment afterwards. I ran off at the first opportunity. |
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