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KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
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 Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| It's a daft article because it talks about the cost of getting married then includes the cost of a home in the total. They are two separate things. |
You guys keep trying to apply your culture's way of thinking to a foreign culture.
When you get married appa & omma buy you the first house. Instead of paying hundreds of millions of won in interest to the bankers, the family fronts you the money, you repay it, and later when they are old you do the same they did for you. The net result of the family sticking together is a better life financially speaking.
So a wedding and a first home aren't necessarily two separate things. It is a joining of two famlies and a big expensive thing, in the short-run.
...also these weddings are a blast and always come with an endless K-buffet of the gods. I'd like to film "Wedding Crashers II: the Korean Chow Down". |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
You guys keep trying to apply your culture's way of thinking to a foreign culture.
When you get married appa & omma buy you the first house. Instead of paying hundreds of millions of won in interest to the bankers, the family fronts you the money, you repay it, and later when they are old you do the same they did for you. The net result of the family sticking together is a better life financially speaking.
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You're either talking about the cost of getting married or the cost of getting married plus setting up a home. The second option is only open to wealthy people, it has nothing to do with culture. Rich people everywhere get financial help from their parents. Obviously if the reporter was saying it costs 200,000 dollars to get married and buy a house it wouldn't be a very sensational article. As I mentioned before not all Korean people get married then immediately buy their own home. Some of them have appas and mommas that don't have any money for one thing. What do they do? They rent or carry on living with their parents.
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| also these weddings are a blast and always come with an endless K-buffet of the gods |
Ok we have had very different experiences. I've only been to three Korean weddings but they all lasted around an hour including the buffet and the food was lukewarm and mediocre. Two of them were in giant canteens with two or three weddings going on at the same time and were completely lacking in any atmosphere. |
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KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| You're either talking about the cost of getting married or the cost of getting married plus setting up a home. The second option is only open to wealthy people, it has nothing to do with culture. Rich people everywhere get financial help from their parents. |
From my observation it looks like culture.
All the people I know the parents got them a first home, and they are not all from rich families. In fact I know an omma/appa who are pooling their funds right now for a marriage this Summer, son will start out with a house just like the other two kids got. Later in life they buy dad a Range Rover, a friend of mine just did that. Good son. I knew one guy who never worked his whole life, parents got him a place, he just sorta drifted along. Also "kids" live at home until married, so they save up money that way too instead of wasting it on rent.
Anyhow I'm an American, that would never happen in the states unless dad was Bill Gates, but here everyday people pull together and make it happen. Not such a bad thing. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| All the people I know the parents got them a first home, and they are not all from rich families |
Ok we agree to differ. Where I come from (the UK) anyone whose parents can afford to buy them a home outright when they get married would be considered rich. (or at the very least a minority in the country)And the UK has a higher GDP than Korea. Maybe you move in high circles |
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KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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I just like studying other cultures, it�s no big deal.
As a finance guy I was thinking about this the other day and I think Asia understands that "wealthy" doesn't just happen, it comes about. Maybe the family has an average job but they save their whole life, they make good financial decisions and planning, keep the bankers out of it, the next generation becomes more wealthy.
I've met so many Koreans who run a crappy convenience store or a "chimak" shop, and you go to their home for dinner and they are like won-billionaires!! At first it blew me away (being an American most people from my country are a financial disaster) but now I get it.
...on the other end of the financial planning spectrum you've got the "working girls" who are in their situation from a complete lack of said wisdom. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 4:13 am Post subject: |
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| KimchiNinja wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| You're either talking about the cost of getting married or the cost of getting married plus setting up a home. The second option is only open to wealthy people, it has nothing to do with culture. Rich people everywhere get financial help from their parents. |
From my observation it looks like culture.
All the people I know the parents got them a first home, and they are not all from rich families. In fact I know an omma/appa who are pooling their funds right now for a marriage this Summer, son will start out with a house just like the other two kids got. Later in life they buy dad a Range Rover, a friend of mine just did that. Good son. I knew one guy who never worked his whole life, parents got him a place, he just sorta drifted along. Also "kids" live at home until married, so they save up money that way too instead of wasting it on rent.
Anyhow I'm an American, that would never happen in the states unless dad was Bill Gates, but here everyday people pull together and make it happen. Not such a bad thing. |
You may not realize it, but your friends a actually quite well off. I have a few friends who have gotten married and have had to make do with zero assistance from their parents.
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| I've met so many Koreans who run a crappy convenience store or a "chimak" shop, and you go to their home for dinner and they are like won-billionaires!! At first it blew me away (being an American most people from my country are a financial disaster) but now I get it. |
Okay, just stop. Korea's average household debt currently exceeds that's of the US prior to the subprime crisis (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/25/us-korea-economy-debt-idUSTRE77O4JU20110825). We get that you think Korea is great, and that's fine, but you seem to be blinded by emotion. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 4:33 am Post subject: |
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| Okay, just stop. Korea's average household debt currently exceeds that's of the US prior to the subprime crisis (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/25/us-korea-economy-debt-idUSTRE77O4JU20110825). We get that you think Korea is great, and that's fine, but you seem to be blinded by emotion. |
That's not really the full story though is it?
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| It says the bulk of household debts are owed by rich people and relatively well covered with collateral, and points out that loans from banks or conventional financial institutions are relatively sound, with delinquency ratios staying below 1 percent for banks and below 2 percent for credit card loans. |
The US has a much higher delinquency rate
http://mjperry.blogspot.ca/2012/02/credit-card-delinquency-rate-falls-to.html |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 4:45 am Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
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| Okay, just stop. Korea's average household debt currently exceeds that's of the US prior to the subprime crisis (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/25/us-korea-economy-debt-idUSTRE77O4JU20110825). We get that you think Korea is great, and that's fine, but you seem to be blinded by emotion. |
That's not really the full story though is it?
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| It says the bulk of household debts are owed by rich people and relatively well covered with collateral, and points out that loans from banks or conventional financial institutions are relatively sound, with delinquency ratios staying below 1 percent for banks and below 2 percent for credit card loans. |
The US has a much higher delinquency rate
http://mjperry.blogspot.ca/2012/02/credit-card-delinquency-rate-falls-to.html |
At the moment that's very true, but the Korean real estate market is looking awfully bubbly these days, and that's where an enormous amount of private debt is tied up. This isn't to say that the bubble will assuredly burst, but it's disingenuous to act as if those wonderful homes owned by store owners are all bought and paid for (as one might have had the same misconception in South Florida in 2007). |
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slothrop
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 5:41 am Post subject: |
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edit
Last edited by slothrop on Mon May 14, 2012 7:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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My wife and I had a traditional ceremony at a local historical site that provided the venue, clothing, all the people involved in the ceremony and decor for a donation of 1'000'000won. Actually decent food for 200 guests ran us another 3'000'000.
Traditional ceremony is the way to go guys. It might run a little long, but the ceremony itself involves drinking a fair amount of booze.  |
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liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| slothrop wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
| alongway wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Okay, just stop. Korea's average household debt currently exceeds that's of the US prior to the subprime crisis (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/25/us-korea-economy-debt-idUSTRE77O4JU20110825). We get that you think Korea is great, and that's fine, but you seem to be blinded by emotion. |
That's not really the full story though is it?
| Quote: |
| It says the bulk of household debts are owed by rich people and relatively well covered with collateral, and points out that loans from banks or conventional financial institutions are relatively sound, with delinquency ratios staying below 1 percent for banks and below 2 percent for credit card loans. |
The US has a much higher delinquency rate
http://mjperry.blogspot.ca/2012/02/credit-card-delinquency-rate-falls-to.html |
At the moment that's very true, but the Korean real estate market is looking awfully bubbly these days, and that's where an enormous amount of private debt is tied up. This isn't to say that the bubble will assuredly burst, but it's disingenuous to act as if those wonderful homes owned by store owners are all bought and paid for (as one might have had the same misconception in South Florida in 2007). |
how's this for a bubble waiting to burst...
guy pays 180,000,000 for an apt 4 years ago for investment, has tenant move in for 130,000,000 cheonsae. now he wants to sell. real estate agents and online apt website says it's still worth 180,000,000. problem is no one will buy it for that amount. so real estate agent lowers price to emergency sale #of 140,000,000. still noone who can get a bank loan wants to touch the place with a ten foot pole. but in walks a guy who's always dreamed of owning an apt but can't get a loan because he is already in debt up to his teeth. owner and real estate agent tell guy all you need to come up with is 10,000,000. because owner already has 130,000,000 of the tenants choensae. so they get the deal done.
so owner takes a 40,000,000 won hit, but at least he's free and clear from the real estate black hole that many believe is right around the corner. real estate agent makes their cut. all the other apts in the complex are still listed as 180,000,000 value because this was technically an "emergency sale". guy who couldn't get a loan now owns apt and owes the bank nothing for it. and the tenant who thought he handed over 130,000,000 to a good credit risk who checked out is now owed 130,000,000 from a guy who can't even get a credit card. when the dung hits the fan it ain't the banks that are going to be left holding the hot potato. it's everyone who forked over cheonsae to either avoid paying monthly rent or avoid buying into the risky market that will be left out in the cold. and how do i know what i wrote above is possible? lets just say i know someone who just did it. if you don't believe that this is possible without proof, try checking the korea times a few weeks back, i think there was an article about it. ok, i found it...
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2012/03/123_106294.html
here's about buying an apt. in seoul.. aye carumba!
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2012/05/123_110664.html
if you believe that land and housing always go up in value and think going into debt to buy one a smart investment, better talk to a japanese person. today the avg. house in tokyo is worth 10% of what it was at it's peak. in 1991 the imperial palace was estimated to be worth more than all of california. what's scary is even at 10% they are still expensive.
http://www.oftwominds.com/blogoct06/japan-bubble.html
free advice to newlyweds;take whatever money you have saved or been given from wedding, move to thailand, and pay monthly rent on a bungalow close enough to the ocean to hear the waves, but not close enough to have drunks walking by up and down the beach all night. |
Chonse can be guaranteed by the government in Korea upto a large amount. It's not hundreds of millions, but you can guarantee a large portion of your chonse by registering it at the local government office. |
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motiontodismiss
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| liveinkorea316 wrote: |
Chonse can be guaranteed by the government in Korea upto a large amount. It's not hundreds of millions, but you can guarantee a large portion of your chonse by registering it at the local government office. |
It can, but given the speed of government once you make a claim it'll take about 200 years before the claim is paid, and until then you're screwed, not to mention the possibility that the government won't have the money to pay your claim. Forget jeonse, just rent. The peace of mind from not having to get a loan (most jeonse is borrowed money) or if you have the cash, loaning it interest-free to an individual who likely can't even get a credit card is worth it IMO. The reason you you rent is so that you can avoid risking sinking hundreds of thousands of dollars (your own or the bank's) into an illiquid, depreciating asset (as is the case of an apartment). Yet these jeonse residents are doing exactly the same thing. Just bad risk management practice.
You could also insure it with Seoul Guarantee Insurance but they won't insure cases like the one described above. The best way to go would be for jeonse to be held by an escrow company who would loan that money out to the owner.
Last edited by motiontodismiss on Wed May 09, 2012 5:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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No_hite_pls
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
From my observation it looks like culture.
All the people I know the parents got them a first home, and they are not all from rich families. In fact I know an omma/appa who are pooling their funds right now for a marriage this Summer, son will start out with a house just like the other two kids got. Later in life they buy dad a Range Rover, a friend of mine just did that. Good son. I knew one guy who never worked his whole life, parents got him a place, he just sorta drifted along. Also "kids" live at home until married, so they save up money that way too instead of wasting it on rent.
Anyhow I'm an American, that would never happen in the states unless dad was Bill Gates, but here everyday people pull together and make it happen. Not such a bad thing. |
I am an American, My Grandparents bought my parents first house (he had to pay him back with no interest) and my parents bought my wife and I first house. So it does happen in the states too. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| No_hite_pls wrote: |
| Quote: |
From my observation it looks like culture.
All the people I know the parents got them a first home, and they are not all from rich families. In fact I know an omma/appa who are pooling their funds right now for a marriage this Summer, son will start out with a house just like the other two kids got. Later in life they buy dad a Range Rover, a friend of mine just did that. Good son. I knew one guy who never worked his whole life, parents got him a place, he just sorta drifted along. Also "kids" live at home until married, so they save up money that way too instead of wasting it on rent.
Anyhow I'm an American, that would never happen in the states unless dad was Bill Gates, but here everyday people pull together and make it happen. Not such a bad thing. |
I am an American, My Grandparents bought my parents first house (he had to pay him back with no interest) and my parents bought my wife and I first house. So it does happen in the states too. |
Your individual situation doesn't mean that it "happens" in the states as a general statement.
Everything has happened in every country probably at least once in its history. That doesn't mean the behaviour is something that we would say that "happens" there.
I know few, if any, middle class families that would excessively help out their kids after graduation/university. Certainly not in buying their first house. Middle class families in the west have a hard enough time keeping the main household going.
While in Korea it seems much more common for middle class families to pump everything into their kids. |
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slothrop
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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edit
Last edited by slothrop on Mon May 14, 2012 7:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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