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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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 Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuval wrote: |
[q
When I said Every, I guess I meant about 50%. Which is a crazy number... and I'm not sure if that number is too big or too small. I know it's a ridiculously huge number compared to faithful marriages back home. . |
No it's not. It's about the same back home. |
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augustine
Joined: 08 Sep 2012
Location: México
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Rather than legalizing commercial sex we advocate the implementation of the so called Nordic Model. In this legal scheme the selling of sex is decriminalized and the purchase of sex is highly criminalized. In Sweden, Denmark and South Korea, where this model is enforce, prostituted persons receive social protections and treatment while johns and pimps go to jail and pay fines. By driving up the cost of buying sex authorities have been able to significantly reduce demand. |
In regards to Korea, you'd have to be a huge sucker to believe that. |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| There is a difference between "almost 80% of married Korean men admit to adultery" and "almost 80% of married Korean men in one study admit to adultery. |
I believe I qualified my statement adequately. I actually said "This is just one study". Go bother someone else. Or better yet, why don't you actually do something useful and start a thread with information that will benefit other users instead of trolling the board and looking for people to put down and belittle?
The OP was poorly written, but (IMHO) not as far off the mark as some would suggest.
He did qualify his whole post by stating that he has only been here for five months (by the way, 17.5 years ago, I had only been here for five months too. We were all newbies at one time and we all handled the move to Korea differently. We can't all be as cool as TUM, obviously). Are new people not allowed to have opinions on living in Korea? Are they not allowed to be wrong?
Anyway, the OP then goes on to say (I'll paraphrase):
-the paperwork can be a nightmare, and so can dealing with recruiters. (Pretty common, don't you think? I don't know if Mexico or Nigeria would be more organized, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out they were. Immigration and the Education can't even talk to each other. For a country that's so wired, and BRAGS about how wired they are, that's just a joke. And it's a fair heads up to new applicants, don't you think?)
-try the food, it's AWESOME (positive)
-always try to talk to a teacher at the school you're going to work at (good advice)
-you'll get homesick (true)
-many of the people you meet aren't qualified teachers back home (true, no?)
-you might meet some weird people here (at this point I'd like to point you to the freakiest waygook thread)
-cut the negative weird people out of your life (good advice)
-people who say they learned Korean in an hour are lying (I agree, but I think I would have used "exaggerating" instead of "lying")
-there's lots to do in Korea (true and positive)
-make an effort to learn Korean (good advice, and positive)
-make an effort to learn the customs (good advice and positive)
-if you see a Korean doing it, you can do it too (well, that gives a lot of latitude on both sides of good and bad, but learning GOOD habits from the locals at least is not a bad idea. Even the Koreans are fond of saying "When in Rome...")
-be patient you'll get used to things and won't be the new guy anymore (true and encouraging)
-be polite to the teacher you're replacing, they can help you (common sense, no?)
-research before you come and be aware that some of what you read will be incorrect. (True and good advice. Hell, some of the critics of the OP are the first to chime in when someone gets cheated by their boss and say "Well, you should have researched your job. Now you're criticizing a guy who says "research your job". Make up your GD minds)
-the country has great benefits, take advantage of them (true enough, especially for some Americans I would guess in terms of health care)
I'd say most of that is pretty accurate, and pretty positive. Even when he mentions negative things, he doesn't really go on and on and and whine.
However, a couple of people here IGNORED ALL THAT (because it didn't fit their agenda), and instead thought they'd make themselves feel better by debunking the guy with the old "Aha! You said "every" Korean cheats. That means one hundred percent and I can't believe you have spoken to every Korean". People use, "every" and "all" and even simply "Koreans do X" all the time. They use the qualifiers incorrectly, yes, but in a manner that is fairly common, and I think it is understood by most that the speaker doesn't literally mean "every". Seriously, did you think any of us reading that really believed EVERY Korean man cheats?
So, you win. You are correct. It is not "every". But you fail to admit that some sources indicate it is pretty high here. And a high adultery rate in another country doesn't negate the fact that it is high here too. It is completely irrelevant.
To say that there isn't a prostitution issue in Korea is just simply wrong. There are WHOLE streets of hookers, in lit up glass windows, in every city in Korea. Some of those areas are NEXT TO police stations. Then the massage joints, the noraebangs, the barber shops, it goes on and on. It is well documented. The numbers are out there. While he put it indelicately, are you seriously saying that if you did want to get a prostitute that it would be hard to do so? Are you saying that the cops are serious about curbing prostitution?
Now, I thought he shared a little too much about his girlfriend and their sex lives too, and I don't think he can extrapolate from one girl to all of the women in Korea BUT I also think there are (or at least were, when I was single) differences in the dating culture and, to be honest, sexual roles and expectations. Would anyone say that those roles and expectations are exactly the same as where they come from?
Again, my take on his post was that with the exception of some hyperbole and the fact that it was poorly written (but I can't write worth a damn either, so I am not going to hold that against him, and expressing an opinion poorly doesn't mean that his observations are invalid) it was pretty honest, fairly accurate, and even positive overall.
God, some of you are obsessed with the "whiners" on this board ("If you don't love Korea, you should just leave!" Funny, why don't you apply that rule to yourselves and Dave's? If you don't like what people post here, why whine about it all the time? Just leave) and now you're jumping an a guy who did something constructive (trying to help other newbies). Man... |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| diver wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| There is a difference between "almost 80% of married Korean men admit to adultery" and "almost 80% of married Korean men in one study admit to adultery. |
I believe I qualified my statement adequately. I actually said "This is just one study". Go bother someone else. Or better yet, why don't you actually do something useful and start a thread with information that will benefit other users instead of trolling the board and looking for people to put down and belittle?
.. |
Ah you must mean threads like this one
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=197658&start=0
And the last one before that
Threads where I've taken the time out of my busy schedule to literally help hundreds of newbies.
Enlighten me...exactly how many posts do you have in said threads?
Surely with 18 years of experience here you must have vast amounts of enlightenment to shed on the rest of us?
| Quote: |
| a high adultery rate in another country doesn't negate the fact that it is high here too. It is completely irrelevant. |
I guess that in your hurry to rebut me you missed the FACT THAT IT WAS THE OP doing the initial comparison. So not only was it not irrelevant it was bang on topic.
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To say that there isn't a prostitution issue in Korea is just simply wrong. |
Well then I guess it's a good thing I never said any such thing.
| Quote: |
| However, a couple of people here IGNORED ALL THAT (because it didn't fit their agenda), and instead thought they'd make themselves feel better by debunking the guy with the old "Aha! You said "every" Korean cheats |
It was a lot more than a couple of people. Try 15-20.
I could go through and debunk every one of your "points"...but I think I'll let others chime in and have a go. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| Exactly. There are a lot of rules for the 한글 alphabet; for example, 꽃입 is pronounced 꼰닙. (The ㅊ changes to ㄴ and the ㅇ changes to ㄴ.) And once you learn all the rules, the letters are hard as heck to pronounce. It takes a LONG time to get good at Korean. |
How long it takes depends on many things, namely the time you put in, your motivation for learning, how much practice you get and so on. |
Hyperpolyglots have been the objects of curiosity at least since the 19th century, when Cardinal Giuseppe Mezzofanti of Bologna was said to have mastered more than 50 languages. For nearly as long, people have debated whether their ability was innate or learned. The answer, neurolinguists are now discovering, is a bit of both, said Loraine Obler, a linguist and a professor at the City University of New York who has studied bilingualism�s effect on the brain. �There are people whose brains are set up to do language learning,� she said, �the same way some people are more talented at drawing.� Also, she added, �The brain�s ability to absorb increases as we know more languages. Having a second language at a young age helps you learn a third, even if they�re unrelated.� |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:43 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| ...a bunch of stuff you can read above... |
Just because you're not the only ass in the thread doesn't negate the fact that you're an ass . The are problems with the OP for sure. A lot of the criticism was about how poorly written it was, and I would agree with those people. But to say the guy was absolutely wrong wouldn't be correct. But I guess it's easier to take a quick shot at the guy.
Once again, in my post, you went after me, and not my argument (though to be fair, I did go after you). You cherry pick a couple of points, then think you've proven something.
And, yes, I've learned quite a bit here in 18 years, I just try not to be pompous about it. I do help out when a thread deals with something I am particularly knowledgeable about (but most of the time I am able to conclude that ttompatz can offer better info than I can). I might consider contributing more, and OTHER long-timers might contribute more except for...well, they don't find this place particularly constructive.
The guy made some valid points, and despite poor word choices in some places, his post is not that inaccurate or negative, nor are his "generalizations" far off the mark in most places.
Here, let's this try this as an example. You claim to have helped 'literally' hundreds of newbies. Links please? Or can you post the thank you notes from your hundreds of newbies that YOU specifically, literally helped. I guess we'll need proof from at least two hundred people, since you claimed 'hundreds'. And, it has to be absolutely clear that is was YOUR post in the thread, and yours alone - not those of anyone else, that helped those people. Go ahead, we'll wait. And remember, if you can't prove at least two hundred, that means your whole claim of helping people is a lie. These aren't my criteria, they are yours. Oh, and don't forget that I don't have to actually address the main point of any argument you make. All I have to do is claim to be busy, and let others 'have a go', or find a broken link, or a spelling error, and that disproves your claim. It's how you operate.
To sum up - I looked at the whole OP, went through many of the points he made, tried to give a quick evaluation of each point, acknowledged what I perceived to be weaknesses in his argument (which most of us actually agree on), and concluded that, on the whole, his post was fairly positive and not entirely inaccurate.
Your rebuttal was essentially - 1. that you're not the only one who didn't like the OP and 2. and that I incorrectly attributed a quote to you (it wasn't actually to you specifically, but to a couple of you - and you know who you are).
You haven't explained why, for example, researching a school before coming to Korea is bad advice. Or why trying to learn the language is bad advice. Or why trying to learn Korean customs is bad advice. Or how the benefits available to those living in Korea are not benefits, or are somehow bad things. Or that there are not a lot of strange people here, or that somehow the paperwork process in Korea is quite easy and efficient and you will not be asked to resubmit documents you have already submitted, that recruiters for the most part will not lie to potential hires, that previous teachers are terrible sources of information and materials, that you won't get homesick, that there isn't much to do in Korea, that you will never get over your initial culture shock and find your own way, or that while in Rome one should NOT do as the Romans, that people HAVE actually learned Korean in an hour, that most of the people you will meet ARE qualified teachers back home, that you should not try Korean food, that prostitution is a minor issue in Korea, that you will find dating Korean women the same as dating women back home and there will be no cultural differences that you might find amusing/interesting at the very least and/or insurmountable at the worst, that newbies to Korea have nothing to contribute and their observations are invalid because of their lack of time in country...
But you're not really that interested in proving or disproving the OP are you? You are more interested in stalking me (it took you longer than usual this time, what's up?). |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| Exactly. There are a lot of rules for the 한글 alphabet; for example, 꽃입 is pronounced 꼰닙. (The ㅊ changes to ㄴ and the ㅇ changes to ㄴ.) And once you learn all the rules, the letters are hard as heck to pronounce. It takes a LONG time to get good at Korean. |
How long it takes depends on many things, namely the time you put in, your motivation for learning, how much practice you get and so on. |
Hyperpolyglots have been the objects of curiosity at least since the 19th century, when Cardinal Giuseppe Mezzofanti of Bologna was said to have mastered more than 50 languages. For nearly as long, people have debated whether their ability was innate or learned. The answer, neurolinguists are now discovering, is a bit of both, said Loraine Obler, a linguist and a professor at the City University of New York who has studied bilingualism�s effect on the brain. �There are people whose brains are set up to do language learning,� she said, �the same way some people are more talented at drawing.� Also, she added, �The brain�s ability to absorb increases as we know more languages. Having a second language at a young age helps you learn a third, even if they�re unrelated.� |
I agree with much of that WT. It is very interesting and I read a few studies on language acquisition too. I still maintain that motivation and time put into studying are critical factors in learning any language. Lack those two things and you can have the best wired brain and the most talent with languages on earth and chances are you will fail.
Can learning be easier for someone? I am sure it can! Heck my family is kind of "wired for languages" as my mother speaks several languages, I do too, my brother as well...kind of a family trait. I guess. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| diver wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| ...a bunch of stuff you can read above... |
Here, let's this try this as an example. You claim to have helped 'literally' hundreds of newbies. Links please? Or can you post the thank you notes from your hundreds of newbies that YOU specifically, literally helped. I guess we'll need proof from at least two hundred people, since you claimed 'hundreds'. And, it has to be absolutely clear that is was YOUR post in the thread, and yours alone - not those of anyone else, that helped those people. Go ahead, we'll wait. . |
I gave you the link...If you can't be bothered reading it for yourself then I can't be bothered either pointing it out.
As for this:
| Quote: |
| You haven't explained why, for example, researching a school before coming to Korea is bad advice. Or why trying to learn the language is bad advice. Or why trying to learn Korean customs is bad advice. Or how the benefits available to those living in Korea are not benefits, or are somehow bad things. Or that there are not a lot of strange people here, or that somehow the paperwork process in Korea is quite easy and efficient and you will not be asked to resubmit documents you have already submitted, that recruiters for the most part will not lie to potential hires, that previous teachers are terrible sources of information and materials, that you won't get homesick, that there isn't much to do in Korea, that you will never get over your initial culture shock and find your own way, or that while in Rome one should NOT do as the Romans, that people HAVE actually learned Korean in an hour, that most of the people you will meet ARE qualified teachers back home, that you should not try Korean food, that prostitution is a minor issue in Korea, that you will find dating Korean women the same as dating women back home and there will be no cultural differences that you might find amusing/interesting at the very least and/or insurmountable at the worst, that newbies to Korea have nothing to contribute and their observations are invalid because of their lack of time in country... |
What are you on? I never said that doing all the above is bad advice.
I said the OP has a lot of incorrect and flat out wrong assumptions in his post. |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
I said the OP has a lot of incorrect and flat out wrong assumptions in his post. |
No. What you actually said was:
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
I've rarely seen a post that contains more assumptions, generalizations, and flat out wrong statements. |
So it was more than just "a lot". You actually said that, in your opinion, the OP was RARE in its level of incorrect and flat out wrong assumptions. It was, for you, a unique experience to read a post that was so wrong.
The only problem is that, instead of actually rebutting anything he said, you did a hit and run, made a pithy post, and buggered off.
I have at least tried to look at the points the OP made one by one. Here are the ones I have ennumerated:
-the paperwork can be a nightmare, and so can dealing with recruiters. (Pretty common, don't you think? I don't know if Mexico or Nigeria would be more organized, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out they were. Immigration and the Education can't even talk to each other. For a country that's so wired, and BRAGS about how wired they are, that's just a joke. And it's a fair heads up to new applicants, don't you think?)
-try the food, it's AWESOME (positive)
-always try to talk to a teacher at the school you're going to work at (good advice)
-you'll get homesick (true)
-many of the people you meet aren't qualified teachers back home (true, no?)
-you might meet some weird people here (at this point I'd like to point you to the freakiest waygook thread)
-cut the negative weird people out of your life (good advice)
-people who say they learned Korean in an hour are lying (I agree, but I think I would have used "exaggerating" instead of "lying")
-there's lots to do in Korea (true and positive)
-make an effort to learn Korean (good advice, and positive)
-make an effort to learn the customs (good advice and positive)
-if you see a Korean doing it, you can do it too (well, that gives a lot of latitude on both sides of good and bad, but learning GOOD habits from the locals at least is not a bad idea. Even the Koreans are fond of saying "When in Rome...")
-be patient you'll get used to things and won't be the new guy anymore (true and encouraging)
-be polite to the teacher you're replacing, they can help you (common sense, no?)
-research before you come and be aware that some of what you read will be incorrect. (True and good advice. Hell, some of the critics of the OP are the first to chime in when someone gets cheated by their boss and say "Well, you should have researched your job. Now you're criticizing a guy who says "research your job". Make up your GD minds)
-the country has great benefits, take advantage of them (true enough, especially for some Americans I would guess in terms of health care)
Let's add:
- every Korean cheats on his wife
- sex isn't what you'd expect
- there's a lot of prostitution in Korea
That's roughly 19 points the OP made (that number could change I guess, depending on if you take some of his points together or separately). I'd say two (cheating and sex) are in dispute. Even if I concede them, that means two out of 19 are incorrect or flat out wrong. And even in conceding, all you did was criticize a study I provided (fair enough I guess), but neither did you provide any proof of your own that the numbers in that study were incorrect. Links please.
2 out of 19. Really? That's your definition of "a lot"? "Rare" even?
BTW, I too have posted in advice threads that are up to several pages with lots of posts. I don't claimed that I alone, LITERALLY, helped all those people.
Remember, you said "Threads where I've taken the time out of my busy schedule to literally help hundreds of newbies. " It doesn't matter how MANY posts you've made, the claim was that you personally, literally, helped hundreds of newbies. I'd like to see proof of that - if you can't prove it, it's all BS. I am just asking what you would ask of anyone else on this board. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| diver wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
I said the OP has a lot of incorrect and flat out wrong assumptions in his post. |
No. What you actually said was:
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
I've rarely seen a post that contains more assumptions, generalizations, and flat out wrong statements. |
So it was more than just "a lot".. |
Semantics. You're just nit-picking at this point.
Anyway if you want the list of wrong assumptions I will provide them. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: My reflection on teaching in Korea. ----MY EXPERIENCE! |
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1.
| Quote: |
| "The social dynamics of groups here is...strange". |
Generally speaking groups here are mostly the same as most other groups elsewhere. It may be somewhat different to what you are used back home but if you are the new guy trying to break in you need to bring something to the table so as to speak.
2.
| Quote: |
| Learn the alphabet (hangeul) and all of the sounds everything makes. This is extremely important and some people say it only takes an hour to do.I call those people asshats and liars, but they say it's true" |
The alphabet CAN be learned (memorized) within an hour). It is possible. I know people who've done it. For others it may take longer. But to say everyone who says they've done it in an hour is lying...that is what is "strange"
3. I'm not even going to touch on the sex and "Every Korean" comments. Those don't need any additional commentary.
4. He then goes on to say not to be afraid to make mistakes because there are rarely consequences for your actions. Dude, they are noticed. People might not say anything at the time, but when it is time for your contract to be renewed or getting hired elsewhere those actions could play a large part.
Downright bad advice and dodgy as all get out
5. Hitting on girls. After one strikes out 15 times in one night don't you think said person would sit down and think "Oh it's a different culture I need a different 'game'"?
| Quote: |
| I've still got to figure out how to mack girls in a nightclub. I'm pretty sure the only way to do it is through "booking," |
This is cringe-inducing...sorry but it is.
6.
| Quote: |
| If you like hookers, this is the place for you. I don't know much about them, but they're more prevalent than in Vegas. It's illegal, but the cops don't care. |
Another gem. At best that's advocating something illegal and at worst...
Just because the cops may (generally) not care...what do you think what would happen to you when the cops do one of their random crackdowns and catch you there?
That's six right there and I'm being generous by combining two of them. |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:12 am Post subject: |
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There we go. Now we have a debate.
1. You use the word "different", he used "strange". I don't think you and the OP as far apart in opinion as you may claim.
2. Why don't we split the difference on this one. I think there is more to learning all the sounds and rules than people think, and probably not possible to do in an hour. However, if someone studied the characters for an hour, and we tested them the next day - I'd be interested in seeing the results. So, possible for some, but I'd say a fair bit of people are exaggerating the rate of their learning. I know people who SAY they've done it, too. But, to be fair, I didn't test them. There's no way of REALLY knowing it it's true or not. Would say that it is in human nature to exaggerate, even a little?
3. Fair enough. We can leave those out. I will say this though...I think that people got focused on the noise, not the signal. While the gist of what he said about sex with Korean girls is wrong, I say that there ARE differences in sexuality between cultures, so he is a little bit correct. Who is responsible for birth control in Korea, for example? It is not a crime for guys (or girls) to want to hook up. While this might not be the forum to discuss HOW to do it, there are differences that are worthy of intelligent, adult discussion.
I am not going to hold him to "every Korean" because I don't think he really meant "every" - it's a common usage (if incorrect) of the word. Like the way people use "literally" incorrectly.
I don't doubt you have helped a lot of people on this board. Just because I don't like you very much doesn't make that untrue. However, I don't think you can prove (really prove) that you have "literally", personally, helped hundreds of newbies. That lack of proof doesn't mean you are not helpful. The same goes for the OP. Just because he can't prove that "every" Korean man cheats on his wife doesn't mean that there isn't a whole lot of cheating going on. Love motel parking lots are specifically designed to hide the vehicles from site so that owners can't be identified. They have those streamers hanging down blocking the view of the parking lot. I've also seen pre-cut, custom made boards to lean up against the bumper of your car to cover the license plate. I don;t know if we'll ever find out the true rate of adultery, but you'd have to admit that there is enough that there is a whole industry based upon it.
4. Interpretation. I interpreted what he said about "not making mistakes" is to get out there and have fun, enjoy the experience. Don't be afraid to make mistakes (with language, culturally, even professionally). I didn't take it as "don't be afraid to do whatever you want". As an aside - there are LOTS of people who who would have been fired in other countries, but are allowed to continue to work in Korea. There are people who are repeatedly fired, but issued new visas. In my opinion I didn't think he was trying to encourage bad or unprofessional behavior, and I don't think he is entirely incorrect about consequences.
5. He has trouble meeting girls. So what? Maybe a booking club IS the way for him to go. What's your problem with that? His opinions are less valid because he's not a pickup artist? Your making amoral judgement. It doesn't disprove his point. If guys DID want to meet Korean girls, could they do it in a booking club? Yes. So, is the advice incorrect? No.
6. Again, interpretation. I don't think he is necessarily condoning illegal behavior. He could be stating what is a know fact in an irreverent manner. Do red light districts exist openly in Korea? Can you order hookers to your room using flyers that are openly distributed on the street? Are there more types of sex businesses n Korea than you can shake a stick at (barber shops. noraebangs, massage joints, glass houses, coffee shops)? Do some of those red light areas exist next to police stations? Yes, they do. Do the cops care (beyond the occasional times they are ordered to make it look like they are doing something)? Not really. His point is true. Finding it offensive doesn't change that fact.
Again, on the whole, I'd say he is more right than wrong. And, in his own way, was trying to be helpful.
And, of the 2.5 million posts on Dave's - I hardly think this one is "rare" in it's level of general assumptions or inaccuracies.
Since you didn't address the following, can I assume you agree with me and/or the OP?
-the paperwork can be a nightmare, and so can dealing with recruiters. (Pretty common, don't you think? For a country that's so wired, and BRAGS about how wired they are, that's just a joke. And it's a fair heads up to new applicants, don't you think?)
-try the food, it's AWESOME (positive)
-always try to talk to a teacher at the school you're going to work at (good advice)
-you'll get homesick (true)
-many of the people you meet aren't qualified teachers back home (true, no?)
-cut the negative weird people out of your life (good advice)
-there's lots to do in Korea (true and positive)
-make an effort to learn Korean (good advice, and positive)
-make an effort to learn the customs (good advice and positive)
-if you see a Korean doing it, you can do it too (well, that gives a lot of latitude on both sides of good and bad, but learning GOOD habits from the locals at least is not a bad idea. Even the Koreans are fond of saying "When in Rome...")
-be patient you'll get used to things and won't be the new guy anymore (true and encouraging)
-be polite to the teacher you're replacing, they can help you (common sense, no?)
-research before you come and be aware that some of what you read will be incorrect. (True and good advice. Hell, some of the critics of the OP are the first to chime in when someone gets cheated by their boss and say "Well, you should have researched your job. Now you're criticizing a guy who says "research your job". Make up your GD minds)
-the country has great benefits, take advantage of them (true enough, especially for some Americans I would guess in terms of health care) |
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crescent
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| diver wrote: |
| So it was more than just "a lot".. |
Semantics. You're just nit-picking at this point.
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Oh, I see you've already met the kettle. Take away your nit-picking and there go half your posts. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| crescent wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| diver wrote: |
| So it was more than just "a lot".. |
Semantics. You're just nit-picking at this point.
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Oh, I see you've already met the kettle. Take away your nit-picking and there go half your posts. |
Now now, when TUM gets into semantics it's different. |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Semantics. You're just nit-picking at this point.
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It's not nitpicking. It's playing by your rules. If you don't like them, you have only yourself to blame.
You accuse the OP of "sweeping" generalizations, then try to shoot down his post with a sweeping generalization. You had issues with 6 out of 19 points. You could've posted something like "You make several good points, but I take issue with theses ones and here's why..." or "I think you're wrong on a couple of points, but you make a lot of good observations as well..." But you didn't....because you're full of yourself and one of the biggest bullies on this board. So instead, you took a swipe at a guy who was trying to participate in a public discussion forum, whose experiences are just as valid as yours or mine, whose right to post here is as valid as yours or mine, whose right to make mistakes is a valid as yours or mine, and for what? To make yourself feel better?
You specifically call out the OP for saying "Every" Korean. Fine. I can accept that. Now I am calling you out on (1) proving that his post has so many inadequacies that it is actually rare when compared to all of the posts on Dave's and (2) your claim to have personally helped "literally" hundreds of newbies. Pointing to the "contract review" thread isn't proof of anything. Hell, if ttompatz posted in the same thread, it is likely that he helped more than you did. Anyway, YOU made the claim. It's not my responsibility to prove it. So go ahead. A lot of us are waiting. If you can't prove both of those, then you have lost the argument - again, by YOUR rules.
The OP's having his own personal experience. Let him enjoy it. Let him have the adventure of making a lot of the same mistakes many of us made when we were new. Let him figure things out for himself. God, it's not like he was on here bitching about the price of peanut butter, or how pushy Koreans are, or how his boss didn't give him pots or pans. He was trying to be positive.
About the only good thing I can say is that you had the courtesy to type something out instead of tossing out a drive-by eye-roll icon. And I just realized...you STILL haven't acknowledged that he made a lot of good points and gave some good advice. My God...How stubborn are you that you can't man up and at least admit that much?
Just because someone's not a newbie anymore doesn't mean they have to be a douche to people who ARE new.
BTW, I wish the OP the greatest success in macking on girls this weekend if only because it will drive TUM nuts to know you are out having fun while he trolls through Dave's ESL Cafe looking for people to belittle... |
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