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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
| cj1976 wrote: |
| Any white people had dogshit thrown at them, or been bundled into a car for a group beating? |
Wait til the korean economy crashes then ask that question again. The only reason that the racism is not so blatant is because most Koreans are gainfully employed. Look at Greece. |
Is that how it was in 1997? I wasn't here then. I'd be curious to hear of all the horrible instances of foreigners being lynched. |
There was one foreign teacher down south killed by someone who had lost their job. But it seems most of the hate was directed at women driving foreign cars. Sitting ducks, so to speak. |
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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:54 am Post subject: |
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I don't think there's more racism in Korea than there is in the West. I just think Koreans are more candid about it.
I think this episode of the Twilight Zone captures the Western mentality toward racist language pretty well, when the black guy tells the obnoxiously racist white guy, "Look, I don't care what you gentlemen think, as long as we don't have to listen to it."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5tItxKucwQ
The things Koreans say aren't worse than what many Westerners think to ourselves or say around our relatives, but I think the way many Koreans openly make racist remarks about us to our faces shocks us because in the West we're used to most racist ideas usually being unspoken, or at least spoken in whispers, around the group being denegrated. In the West, we tend to look around the room to make certain nobody of the group we're badmouthing is around or within earshot. Koreans will just say it, and they're even more likely to say it if they're actually speaking with a person of the race they're badmouthing. It's just a 180 degree difference of what we're used to. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| EZE wrote: |
I don't think there's more racism in Korea than there is in the West. I just think Koreans are more candid about it.
I think this episode of the Twilight Zone captures the Western mentality toward racist language pretty well, when the black guy tells the obnoxiously racist white guy, "Look, I don't care what you gentlemen think, as long as we don't have to listen to it."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5tItxKucwQ
The things Koreans say aren't worse than what many Westerners think to ourselves or say around our relatives, but I think the way many Koreans openly make racist remarks about us to our faces shocks us because in the West we're used to most racist ideas usually being unspoken, or at least spoken in whispers, around the group being denegrated. In the West, we tend to look around the room to make certain nobody of the group we're badmouthing is around or within earshot. Koreans will just say it, and they're even more likely to say it if they're actually speaking with a person of the race they're badmouthing. It's just a 180 degree difference of what we're used to. |
Nice of you to come out as a racist, but that doesn't mean that everyone in the West is racist or that, at least in the U.S., progress on the issue isn't being made. |
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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| Nice of you to come out as a racist, but that doesn't mean that everyone in the West is racist or that, at least in the U.S., progress on the issue isn't being made. |
NEWSFLASH: Not all Koreans are racist either.
There has been a lot of legislation in the USA that is very progressive and has been valuable in creating a more integrated society, but at the end of the day, legislation can't change personal prejudices. I'm sure there are neighborhoods in the USA that I avoid driving through and there are neighborhoods in the USA that you avoid driving through, for example.
An example of what I'm talking about as far as Koreans being more candid with their racial prejudices is how my former supervisor last year would often tell a co-worker and I about how much smarter and harder working Koreans are than our people which, of course, we thought was antisemitic. She would make such remarks very often. And one day the school director was telling us that our people struggle with math while all Koreans can look at a math problem and immediately know the correct answer without even having to work it. "We just know!" she said. My co-worker and I, on the walk home, would just laugh about it and say things like, "Why can't they just win a few Nobel Prizes before they rave about their intellectual superiority?" which implied we thought our own ethnic group was actually the more academically accomplished of the two. So all parties involved verbally expressed an ethnic prejudice, but my co-worker and I did so in private and were taken aback by how in-your-face the Koreans were with it. I think we were slightly less racist than them, because I don't think we thought the accomplishments of other people of our ethnic group extended to us as individuals. I'm sure both he and I view ourselves as intellectually ordinary, whereas our supervisor and our boss thought they were brilliant just because they're Korean. But again, all of us had our own prejudices and biases. My co-worker and I both pulled midnight runners, and although payroll fraud was certainly the primary factor, the racial remarks may have been a contributing factor.
A couple of weeks ago, my current boss made a comment similar to my former supervisor's remarks. I just smiled and nodded, but in my own mind, I was thinking . But again, we all probably think our own ethnic group tends to be more academically successful than some other group somewhere. It's a shame that most of us are like this, but most of us are like this. I'm just saying Koreans are much more likely to say it out loud, while we from the West keep our thoughts private or maybe even lie to ourselves about the way we really feel. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| EZE wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| Nice of you to come out as a racist, but that doesn't mean that everyone in the West is racist or that, at least in the U.S., progress on the issue isn't being made. |
NEWSFLASH: Not all Koreans are racist either.
There has been a lot of legislation in the USA that is very progressive and has been valuable in creating a more integrated society, but at the end of the day, legislation can't change personal prejudices. I'm sure there are neighborhoods in the USA that I avoid driving through and there are neighborhoods in the USA that you avoid driving through, for example.
An example of what I'm talking about as far as Koreans being more candid with their racial prejudices is how my former supervisor last year would often tell a co-worker and I about how much smarter and harder working Koreans are than our people which, of course, we thought was antisemitic. She would make such remarks very often. And one day the school director was telling us that our people struggle with math while all Koreans can look at a math problem and immediately know the correct answer without even having to work it. "We just know!" she said. My co-worker and I, on the walk home, would just laugh about it and say things like, "Why can't they just win a few Nobel Prizes before they rave about their intellectual superiority?" which implied we thought our own ethnic group was actually the more academically accomplished of the two. So all parties involved verbally expressed an ethnic prejudice, but my co-worker and I did so in private and were taken aback by how in-your-face the Koreans were with it. I think we were slightly less racist than them, because I don't think we thought the accomplishments of other people of our ethnic group extended to us as individuals. I'm sure both he and I view ourselves as intellectually ordinary, whereas our supervisor and our boss thought they were brilliant just because they're Korean. But again, all of us had our own prejudices and biases. My co-worker and I both pulled midnight runners, and although payroll fraud was certainly the primary factor, the racial remarks may have been a contributing factor.
A couple of weeks ago, my current boss made a comment similar to my former supervisor's remarks. I just smiled and nodded, but in my own mind, I was thinking . But again, we all probably think our own ethnic group tends to be more academically successful than some other group somewhere. It's a shame that most of us are like this, but most of us are like this. I'm just saying Koreans are much more likely to say it out loud, while we from the West keep our thoughts private or maybe even lie to ourselves about the way we really feel. |
Who are you calling "we," kemosabe?
But you do raise a good question--where are the Nobel prizes? Where are the groundbreaking inventions or even products?
As for academic success, that's what Koreans live and breathe for. So they do great in school. |
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Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| at least in the U.S., progress on the issue isn't being made. |
The South Korean government is taking significant steps towards progress on this issue, as is private media. The results are inconsistent, but in a bureaucracy and a country with free-speech, you are going to get inconsistent inputs and a variety of outputs. A one-party system with limited media freedoms could of course take stronger steps towards promoting a view.
Most of the steps regarding racism are for multi-ethnic families and their children- the rural overseas bride families. As these constitute the overwhelming majority of long-term foreigners and in many cases, they are citizens as well, most of the concern is going to be directed at them. I know, I know, they are just Filipinos or Vietnamese or Uzbeks, and despite their far greater numbers, they are not as important as us and their issues of family and children are less important than some guy staring at us on the subway, and I know that while they are citizens who can organize and vote, us transient workers on post-college working vacation should have more political clout, but please don't ignore the fact that the government is putting a lot of energy towards programs to help them and to combat racism towards them, even though really, we should be the center of attention. After all when it comes to foreigners, and life in Korea in general, we are the center of attention. Koreans are consumed with thoughts and hatred about us 24-7. Every little thing they do is somehow related to Uri-Nara us and waygookin them (us, not those Thais). |
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Captain Corea

Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
| cj1976 wrote: |
| Any white people had dogshit thrown at them, or been bundled into a car for a group beating? |
Wait til the korean economy crashes then ask that question again. The only reason that the racism is not so blatant is because most Koreans are gainfully employed. Look at Greece. |
Is that how it was in 1997? I wasn't here then. I'd be curious to hear of all the horrible instances of foreigners being lynched. |
There was one foreign teacher down south killed by someone who had lost their job. But it seems most of the hate was directed at women driving foreign cars. Sitting ducks, so to speak. |
While the murder is a horrible thing (and so is the lack of Korean media coverage), I'm not really seeing that as anything more than a one-off. An unfortunate one, but hardly a trend of people stringing up foreigners due to economic collapse.
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EZE, not all of us sit around with family and friends and say racist things behind closed doors. Please, speak only for yourself. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| le-paul wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| CentralCali wrote: |
Yes, there have been violent assaults against foreigners in Korea. . |
While undoubtedly true...the majority of these stories (at least on Dave's as other people have noted,) involve consumption of alcohol.
An overabundance of testosterone and alcohol generally do not mix well.
I mean how often do you see threads with remarks like "I was walking home on Sunday from my Bible camp when three Koreans ran up and started beating on me..."?
Not to say there haven't been unprovoked attacks and even rapes...but that swings both ways here. |
shit happens mate. just because people dont talk about it doesnt mean its not going on. there are thousands of people in korea you haven't met or that don't use Davies.
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"Not to say there haven't been unprovoked attacks and even rapes...but that swings both ways here."
I don't see where our disagreement is...we are both saying the same thing here. |
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T-J

Joined: 10 Oct 2008 Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
EZE, not all of us sit around with family and friends and say racist things behind closed doors. Please, speak only for yourself.
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Yet you do associate yourself prominently with one of the most vitriolic Korean blogs. Birds of a feather...
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Shinawi
Joined: 18 Mar 2013 Location: Korea
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not aware of any murders against non-Koreans in South Korea. There hasn't been any media coverage about that, and I never heard any minorities mention it.
The mid-1980s were a very different time. Korea was still leaving the developing nation status. The gap between the wealthy and the poor was wide, the wealthy and the middle class being very few, and the poor being very poor. I remember watching the news about crimes being done at the wealthy Koreans as late as the early 1990s. The older Koreans would remember one example - Jijonpa (http://blog.naver.com/octagonman?Redirect=Log&logNo=20131412955). So I wouldn't be surprised if the minorities were harassed during that era as anti-Americanism was beginning to rise and most of the Koreans considered any Caucasian in Korea as Americans. My Canadian supplier told me that during the 80s, a taxi driver in Korea took him to an isolated area and demanded a lot of money.
Although the U.S. had a dark past with racism, the long history with immigrants and minorities have made Americans aware and they improved the situation significantly. The U.S. is very experienced with minorities when compared to South Korea. There are certain U.S. regions where racism is still severe, but those regions are where there are few minorities. And the racism is actually done by the few in those regions. Unfortunately, just one racism can ruin a person's day. Many Koreans in Korea are good people, but a lot of them lack experience with other cultures. Some of them offend people from other countries without realizing it.
Last edited by Shinawi on Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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le-paul

Joined: 07 Apr 2009 Location: dans la chambre
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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to be honest, im not aware of anything that happens here.
my news comes from mostly heresay. while im not saying there are numerous hate crimes toward foreigners, a combination of the police not doing their job (therefore statistics being misleading), people feeling the police are unapproachable/prejudice and true crime going unreported by korean media (as it paints the country in a bad light). Also the majority of minority groups in korea are from asian countries such as china, philipines, thailand etc., in short, this doesnt show a realistic picture of what goes on here.
imo, its really impossible to see the truth other than from personal experience. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
| cj1976 wrote: |
| Any white people had dogshit thrown at them, or been bundled into a car for a group beating? |
Wait til the korean economy crashes then ask that question again. The only reason that the racism is not so blatant is because most Koreans are gainfully employed. Look at Greece. |
Is that how it was in 1997? I wasn't here then. I'd be curious to hear of all the horrible instances of foreigners being lynched. |
There was one foreign teacher down south killed by someone who had lost their job. But it seems most of the hate was directed at women driving foreign cars. Sitting ducks, so to speak. |
While the murder is a horrible thing (and so is the lack of Korean media coverage), I'm not really seeing that as anything more than a one-off. An unfortunate one, but hardly a trend of people stringing up foreigners due to economic collapse.
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EZE, not all of us sit around with family and friends and say racist things behind closed doors. Please, speak only for yourself. |
I wasn't trying to say it was a trend. Lynching foreigners would be an expensive proposition in Korea, what with the blood money.
But things were more unpleasant that usual. I'd avoid going to restaurants--who knows what's in that chi gae?
I'm mostly joking, but there's some truth there. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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Not exactly racism, maybe more properly labeled nationalism. but I think the case of Jeong H. Kim is instructive. He went to the U.S. at the age of 14, became a citizen there, was educated there, became incredibly successful there, but now that he's decided to retire, he wants to give back to...Korea.
The ties that bind. |
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Shinawi
Joined: 18 Mar 2013 Location: Korea
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
| cj1976 wrote: |
| Any white people had dogshit thrown at them, or been bundled into a car for a group beating? |
Wait til the korean economy crashes then ask that question again. The only reason that the racism is not so blatant is because most Koreans are gainfully employed. Look at Greece. |
Is that how it was in 1997? I wasn't here then. I'd be curious to hear of all the horrible instances of foreigners being lynched. |
There was one foreign teacher down south killed by someone who had lost their job. But it seems most of the hate was directed at women driving foreign cars. Sitting ducks, so to speak. |
While the murder is a horrible thing (and so is the lack of Korean media coverage), I'm not really seeing that as anything more than a one-off. An unfortunate one, but hardly a trend of people stringing up foreigners due to economic collapse.
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EZE, not all of us sit around with family and friends and say racist things behind closed doors. Please, speak only for yourself. |
I wasn't trying to say it was a trend. Lynching foreigners would be an expensive proposition in Korea, what with the blood money.
But things were more unpleasant that usual. I'd avoid going to restaurants--who knows what's in that chi gae?
I'm mostly joking, but there's some truth there. |
I was in Korea during the Asian Financial Crisis. I'm not aware of any lynching on foreigners and on rich Korean women during that time. The worse that I heard was about a forty-something year old guy who slapped a woman while she was driving her Mercedes-Benz at a traffic stop.
I'm glad that Korea recovered within the next year after that. I wouldn't have felt safe if the financial crisis continued.
| atwood wrote: |
Not exactly racism, maybe more properly labeled nationalism. but I think the case of Jeong H. Kim is instructive. He went to the U.S. at the age of 14, became a citizen there, was educated there, became incredibly successful there, but now that he's decided to retire, he wants to give back to...Korea.
The ties that bind. |
Nothing wrong with that. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Shinawi wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
| cj1976 wrote: |
| Any white people had dogshit thrown at them, or been bundled into a car for a group beating? |
Wait til the korean economy crashes then ask that question again. The only reason that the racism is not so blatant is because most Koreans are gainfully employed. Look at Greece. |
Is that how it was in 1997? I wasn't here then. I'd be curious to hear of all the horrible instances of foreigners being lynched. |
There was one foreign teacher down south killed by someone who had lost their job. But it seems most of the hate was directed at women driving foreign cars. Sitting ducks, so to speak. |
While the murder is a horrible thing (and so is the lack of Korean media coverage), I'm not really seeing that as anything more than a one-off. An unfortunate one, but hardly a trend of people stringing up foreigners due to economic collapse.
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EZE, not all of us sit around with family and friends and say racist things behind closed doors. Please, speak only for yourself. |
I wasn't trying to say it was a trend. Lynching foreigners would be an expensive proposition in Korea, what with the blood money.
But things were more unpleasant that usual. I'd avoid going to restaurants--who knows what's in that chi gae?
I'm mostly joking, but there's some truth there. |
I was in Korea during the Asian Financial Crisis. I'm not aware of any lynching on foreigners and on rich Korean women during that time. The worse that I heard was about a forty-something year old guy who slapped a woman while she was driving her Mercedes-Benz at a traffic stop.
I'm glad that Korea recovered within the next year after that. I wouldn't have felt safe if the financial crisis continued.
| atwood wrote: |
Not exactly racism, maybe more properly labeled nationalism. but I think the case of Jeong H. Kim is instructive. He went to the U.S. at the age of 14, became a citizen there, was educated there, became incredibly successful there, but now that he's decided to retire, he wants to give back to...Korea.
The ties that bind. |
Nothing wrong with that. |
Your statements contradict each other. You only heard of a minor altercation and yet you wouldn't have felt safe it the crisis continued?
As for nothing wrong with ties that bind, nationalism and the tribalism from which it evolved are at the root of plenty of wars and millions of deaths. |
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