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Question for those with kids
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PatrickGHBusan

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:34 am Post subject:

denverdeath wrote:

I've got 3 kids here. I strongly recommend to anyone having kids here to speak as much English with them as possible. My oldest is seven and has pretty good English. My daughter, however, is now three-and-a-half and I have some trouble communicating with her. I think it's because she was put in pre-school/kindergarten earlier and spent less time with her dad than her older brother did when she was 1-3 years old. Time will tell with all of them, but I really do think that in bi-lingual parental families, each parent should stick to their native tongue as much as possible. And, yes, MORE English is better...a bit sorry to say it, but it's true. Anyway, love your kids, and try to talk/interact with them as much as possible. In that regard, I guess the language used doesn't really matter.

Good point and we did just that: one parent - one language until a certain age and then we mixed it up. Kids did well with each language. I will say that speaking Korean was a huge asset for me because sometimes our kids with ask for something in Korean and not knowing the language would have been a bit of a hassle even if I responded in English because at least I understood what they wanted in Korean right away.

Anyway, to each his own as a parent for the linguistic approach!

denverdeath

Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: Boo-sahn

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:54 am Post subject:

PatrickGHBusan wrote:

denverdeath wrote:

Good points. The thing is, I can understand perfectly what she says in Korean, but I want her to speak to me in English, not Korean. Her listening comprehension is excellent; her speaking, in my opinion, is at least a year below where it should be as a speaker of English as a foreign language. She's only recently begun to speak a lot more English, but still wish it were much better. Again, time will tell.

Who's Your Daddy?

Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:25 am Post subject:

denverdeath wrote:

I can't think of a non-dickish way to ask this, so I'll just ask it: Do you regret staying in Korea?

My son is two. Sometime's I worry about staying here, and wonder if I'll regret it. I worry the longer I stay here, the harder it will be to return.

Captain Corea

Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:31 am Post subject:

I can't recall a time where my daughter ever spoke to me in Korean. Like, we might discuss terms and such, and compare them to English, but she's never walked up to me and asked me for a snack in Korean.

PatrickGHBusan

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:56 am Post subject:

Captain Corea wrote:

I can't recall a time where my daughter ever spoke to me in Korean. Like, we might discuss terms and such, and compare them to English, but she's never walked up to me and asked me for a snack in Korean.

It happened to me a few times (son and daughter) and still happens to me in Canada! Laughing

Heck my son was at a soccer tournament last week (two evenings) and at halftime for one of his games he asked me if I had another cold water bottle in the cooler...in Korean.

PatrickGHBusan

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:57 am Post subject:

Who's Your Daddy? wrote:

denverdeath wrote:

If I may and as someone who "returned" what do you mean by "the longer you stay, the harder to return"?

Do you mean for you or for your son?

This is a very interesting topic and your question was quite valid....

denverdeath

Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: Boo-sahn

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:45 pm Post subject:

Who's Your Daddy? wrote:

Honestly, no, I don't regret staying. If I had've gone back, I likely would've just gone back to doing something in the computer field, which is what I was doing prior to coming here. I'd likely do the same if we return in the near future. We basically have two plans.

1. Stay here for the good.

2. Sell everything we have off here and retire in Canada when our oldest reaches high school age.

If this country were cleaner, larger, and had a bit of grass, it'd be so easy to pick #1.

Who's Your Daddy?

Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:04 pm Post subject:

PatrickGHBusan wrote:

Who's Your Daddy? wrote:

denverdeath wrote:

I mean for myself getting a job. I mean in two ways:

1) My field in Canada was accounting. I've been here 10 years; already I worry about my ability to get hired. I'd expect anything non-teaching related would be similar, too long out of the field, your perceived skills decline.
2) Just age. If you're getting a non-teaching job back home, I'd expect you have to start at a low level again. I wouldn't expect most companies to hire low level employees much older than 45. [I'm 40 now.]

==
Not worried about my son's ability to return, kids can do anything.

A little worried, the longer we live here, the more comfortable our life is here, the more difficult it will be to convince my wife to leave. When you're young you don't worry about roughing it for a while to move up. But as you get older, I find your expectations go up.

Captain Corea

Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:56 pm Post subject:

PatrickGHBusan wrote:

Captain Corea wrote:

It happened to me a few times (son and daughter) and still happens to me in Canada! Laughing

Heck my son was at a soccer tournament last week (two evenings) and at halftime for one of his games he asked me if I had another cold water bottle in the cooler...in Korean.

Yeah, no judgement on any family who does it that way. To each their own.

But if my daughter did that to me, I'd be giving her the "What 'chu talking bout, Willis?" face (and she knows it - I make her watch Different Strokes. lol).

DaeguNL

Joined: 08 Sep 2009

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:19 pm Post subject:

War Eagle wrote:

Paddycakes wrote:

There's no way they're saving hundreds of thousands (or millions) of US dollars on a salary between 2 and 3 million (typical uni pay).

Any Uni teacher who isn't doing privates/part-time work is lazy. Yes, they'd be living paycheck to paycheck. But, who does that? Uni only takes up to 20 hours of your time a week. That leaves time for plenty of privates/part-time work.

Any Uni teacher who isn't making 4.0, at least, is not trying. 5.0 is quite easy and still work less than 40 hours per week.

Add to that 2.0-3.0 for the wife's salary (some wives make more than that even, especially if their English is good and they teach as well) and you have 6-8+ million a month. Easy to save 50k+ a year this way.

For those who don't have a masters and years of uni teaching experience,
the Morning PT + Afterschool route is a good option as well.
10-12 PT for 40k/hr and 1-6 for 3.0 = 4.6-4.7. If your wife has a full time job, that figure jumps to about 7 million a month.

I don't think its unreasonable to save 4 million a month, and multiply that by 10-20 years and it certainly is hundreds of thousands of dollars

anjinsan

Joined: 26 Feb 2008

Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:29 am Post subject:

I think "Who's Your Daddy"s question is a good one as well, esp. since it is rare to come into contact with long-timers who you can up and ask such a question to. For my own family, Korea is our home. I love living here. My wife and I are both teachers by profession, so it really doesn't matter where we are. We have two homelands, and it is so cool to be free to move freely between the two. I will say that in international marriages, it is absolutely imperative that a spouse embraces and truly respects the home culture of the other spouse; if not, some really serious issues will eventually emerge. I very much disagree with most of the slagging of Korea, its people, and (in this instance) its education system. To be honest, I'd much rather have my kids studying to the crack of a whip here than doing the things I saw going down in middle school and high school in the US. I really don't see smokin out, boozing up every weekend, machine-gun hook ups, and other wonderful things as favorable to a child's education. That is just my opinion though.

PatrickGHBusan

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:10 am Post subject:

Who's Your Daddy? wrote:

Ok I see what you mean.

1) I have no idea how the accounting field works in terms of hiring or if your accounting credentials are still valid. I assume that if they are, you could expect to find work back home. That being said, I have no idea at what level you would start and I can see how this can concern you.

One way to offset this uncertainty would be to try and see if you can get back into accounting (if that is your wish) in Korea (ex: for a foreign company operating there) or for you to scout the job market back home as that can be done easily online.

2) Age is a funny thing. Sure at some point it can impact your employability but also consider that the demographics in Canada point to an aging population that may just need to keep hiring older applicants. Now, you can certainly find work back home in certain fields if you prepare the way before returning.

My advice is this: if it is your wish (and your spouses wish) to move back home then plan for it a couple of years ahead. That will save you tons of grief! Look for work in your desrired field (online, friends...) and then figure out what you need to do over the next couple of years to increase your employability. If you can, start to network with people in your employment field of choice.

The other option is to create your own job back home (ie starting a business) or to work towards jobs in an education-related field.

My situation differs from others in that I had my own business that I started in Korea while teaching and through my networking I had received public sector job offers over the years. Thats just my situation mind you.

Your wife is another matter and one that needs to be considered. Being married to a Korean woman my experience with moving to Canada was positive in that she was willing to try even if she was not completely sold. Despite that, she had a heck of a hard time the first year or so and now has settled into life abroad (abroad for her). My brother has lived in Japan for years (longer than I was in Korea) and his wife (Japanese) is not willing to relocate. Luckily he loves his life in Japan but marrying abroad comes with its lot of considerations thats for sure!

If you do return without work or a plan you may be setting yourself up for a lot of stress and angst (for yourself and for your wife). My friend Jeff married in Busan in 2000ish. He returned to Canada in 2002 after 4 years in Korea. He went back to do a grad degree and he and his wife had a real tough time until he found work. She had to deal with living abroad (first time for her) and with living under a tight budget. I think this is an additional stress that should be avoided if possible, especially when we have kids!

Still, interesting discussion and I am glad you asked those questions.

Who's Your Daddy?

Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.

Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:35 pm Post subject:

^^Thank you and "denverdeath" for your replies. It's a difficult decision/situation. Cheers.

PatrickGHBusan

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:10 am Post subject:

Best of luck to you and yours.

misher

Joined: 14 Oct 2008

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:18 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:19 pm Post subject:
War Eagle wrote:
Paddycakes wrote:
There's no way they're saving hundreds of thousands (or millions) of US dollars on a salary between 2 and 3 million (typical uni pay).

Any Uni teacher who isn't doing privates/part-time work is lazy. Yes, they'd be living paycheck to paycheck. But, who does that? Uni only takes up to 20 hours of your time a week. That leaves time for plenty of privates/part-time work.

Any Uni teacher who isn't making 4.0, at least, is not trying. 5.0 is quite easy and still work less than 40 hours per week.

Add to that 2.0-3.0 for the wife's salary (some wives make more than that even, especially if their English is good and they teach as well) and you have 6-8+ million a month. Easy to save 50k+ a year this way.

For those who don't have a masters and years of uni teaching experience,
the Morning PT + Afterschool route is a good option as well.
10-12 PT for 40k/hr and 1-6 for 3.0 = 4.6-4.7. If your wife has a full time job, that figure jumps to about 7 million a month.

I don't think its unreasonable to save 4 million a month, and multiply that by 10-20 years and it certainly is hundreds of thousands of dollars

I don't think anyone will argue that F-Visa holders with their wives working as well (providing that she doesn't go part-time or quit after a bun or 2 is in the oven which most do) can pull 7-8 million a month. After taxes and deductions you're left with 6 mill. That will do when you DINKing it up or you have considerable help from the FIL and MIL.

However there are certain things that will smack you when you get i to your middle ages:

A) your combined take home may be 6-7 million but it ain't goin' much higher. You're basically maxed out after 2-3 years. A PS teacher in Canada maxes out after 10 years and has their starting salary more than double in that time. If you married a K-woman with a compatible personality and that is a doctor/lawyer/tenured teacher/Yangban/public servant, then congratulations because as an ESL teacher you married way above your paygrade. Unfortunately for most of us, women like that are untouchable.

B) As the demographic over 65 balloons, you'll be on the hook to pay. Taxes certainly won't be going down in the next 20 years. It's naive to think that everything is going to stay the way it is now IMO.

C) what about a pension? Do you plan on teaching ESL until you're 70? Arguments that no one anywhere in the world will have a pension 20-30 years from now is a bit extreme. Some places (Canada) although with problems are still far better off than Korea. A PS teacher in Canada gets a defined benefit plan. Same with civil servants like Patrick. In S. Korea you better be saving and saving a lot because you can't return to Canada at 65 after paying nothing into the system and expect it to support you. The same argument applies to medical. You're 55 and need expensive treatment. Don't expect the Korean system to pay for much. Better than the USA but not that much better IMO.

D) if you're not having kids then yeah things are a lot easier. However I'm assuming most men that marry K women will have a bun or 2 in the oven. It's relatively cheap in the beginning especially when the MIL babysits for free. However, once they are teenagers, that 6-7 mill will evaporate quickly if you want your kids to have a fighting chance to be in a good school. University? Better save up and be expecting to support your kids until they are 30. Jobs out of uni in Korea pay ridiculously low and with rising living costs, Korean kids have a hard time living on their own until they get at least 5 years of work exp and a promotion or 2 under their belts.

My point is that it's not impossible to do it on an ESL salary and have a family. It just isn't as easy as "My wife and make a combine 8 mill a month! Hhahahah we will have hundreds of thousands by the time we're 50!!!" Uu gotta think long and hard about doing ESL as a career and having kids with a woman that can't really have a career like a salaryman can

Every guy I know that married a K or J woman run into the same hurdles once their kids get into their teens. Bills start piling up and that stagnant 6 million just isn't cutting it. The financial stress puts a real strain on the marriage and many I know divorced because of it.

Old timers and guys like Patrick don't really count here because they got into the game waaaaaaaay back and started their businesses ( which is WAY harder to do know that in the 90s) or they jumped ship while their kids were super young thus avoiding the financial burden that would be placed on them had their kids been still teens in Korea going into uni.

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