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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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 Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Ginormousaurus wrote: |
| alongway wrote: |
I honestly think Canada is very corrupt. Right now the government is in the middle of strong arming a bunch of natives so that some gas company can come in and pollute people's ground water.
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I think you have it backwards. Those violent natives are attempting to strong arm the government and the oil company. They were the ones who brought weapons to their "peaceful" protest and proceeded to torch a bunch of cop cars when the police were attempting to enforce the rule of law. Were the homemade bombs they brought intended to highlight their peaceful intentions? |
Try again, it's been suggested those came from agent provocateurs which the rcmp have used before that did that.
"Still in the pre-dawn dark, about seven molotov cocktails flew out of the woods opposite the police line stationed in the ditch. I cannot verify who threw these cocktails. They were – if it matters - lobbed ineffectively at the line of police and merely splashed small lines of fire across the road. A lawn chair caught fire from one cocktail. Two camouflaged officers then pumped three rounds of rubber bullet shotgun blasts into the woods.
Shortly after, three so-called warriors with a journalist in tow – who claim to have arrived two nights ago from Manitoba – appeared to have determined that the situation was too extreme for them. Two of them have since been identified as Harrisen Freison and 'Eagle Claw'. They promptly ran down the road towards the far end of the police blockade. Until last night no one had ever seen these individuals before"
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| Measure the size of underground economies in each country. |
You mean the one that says Canada's is around three times the size of South Korea despite having a smaller population?
We've done that already, but good suggestion.
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| But sorry if you think Canada and Korea are same same in this I just don't know what to say |
I would suggest not making things up, it just makes you look silly. Did I say Canada and Korea were even on the same level, I said:
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| Is it more corrupt than Korea, well, there is probably no one in a position to give a definitive answer, but it is far more corrupt than most people's rose colored glasses allows them to see. |
Again, this was all in response to someone lording their Canadian passport over the conversation like Canada is some bastion of ethical behaviour. It's not even close. Since this discussions happened 6-7 weeks ago, lets look at how those scandals have spiralled further out of control. The senate scandal has imploded, harper is doing his usual song and dance. and Ford..well. there isn't an ethical bone in his body. There is plenty corruption to go around and even Canada with it's squeaky image is rife with it. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
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| Measure the size of underground economies in each country. |
You mean the one that says Canada's is around three times the size of South Korea despite having a smaller population? |
Wait, what?
Canada:
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| the underground economy shrank to the equivalent of 2.2 per cent of GDP |
Korea:
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| The size of Korea’s underground economy reached an estimated 314.3 trillion won in 2012, about 24.6 percent of its nominal gross domestic product |
As a percentage of the economy, Korea's underground economy is more than ten times as big as Canada's. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| alongway wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Measure the size of underground economies in each country. |
You mean the one that says Canada's is around three times the size of South Korea despite having a smaller population? |
Wait, what?
Canada:
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| the underground economy shrank to the equivalent of 2.2 per cent of GDP |
Korea:
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| The size of Korea’s underground economy reached an estimated 314.3 trillion won in 2012, about 24.6 percent of its nominal gross domestic product |
As a percentage of the economy, Korea's underground economy is more than ten times as big as Canada's. |
As a raw statistic, Canada has a smaller population and an underground economy 3 times as big, including a counterfeiting amount over twice that of Korea's.
As I said, we've done that already. You can try and dress that up and excuse it all you like, but on that comparison, Canada is an embarrassment. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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byrddogs
Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| This is classic. The guy that blew up the thread about Korean dudes and their cosmetics choices/expenditures is rolling. It's fun to see when he gets all worked up over something. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
| counterfeiting |
Counterfeiting money or products or what?
It could have to do with the proximity to the United States, the richest country in history of the civilization. There is a big market for U.S. money there, less so inside the borders of Korea. Americans are the biggest drug consumers in the world too which is driving a black market trade. I guess my issue with the links you posted is they don't show the whole picture. Korea is less involved in international cross country global black markets because they are so isolated. South Korea is the number one exporter of prostitutes to the United States, but as far as exporting drugs or counterfeit money to the United States on a large scale, they are not. |
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Ginormousaurus
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Location: 700 Ft. Pulpit
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
| Ginormousaurus wrote: |
| alongway wrote: |
I honestly think Canada is very corrupt. Right now the government is in the middle of strong arming a bunch of natives so that some gas company can come in and pollute people's ground water.
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I think you have it backwards. Those violent natives are attempting to strong arm the government and the oil company. They were the ones who brought weapons to their "peaceful" protest and proceeded to torch a bunch of cop cars when the police were attempting to enforce the rule of law. Were the homemade bombs they brought intended to highlight their peaceful intentions? |
Try again, it's been suggested those came from agent provocateurs which the rcmp have used before that did that.
"Still in the pre-dawn dark, about seven molotov cocktails flew out of the woods opposite the police line stationed in the ditch. I cannot verify who threw these cocktails. They were – if it matters - lobbed ineffectively at the line of police and merely splashed small lines of fire across the road. A lawn chair caught fire from one cocktail. Two camouflaged officers then pumped three rounds of rubber bullet shotgun blasts into the woods.
Shortly after, three so-called warriors with a journalist in tow – who claim to have arrived two nights ago from Manitoba – appeared to have determined that the situation was too extreme for them. Two of them have since been identified as Harrisen Freison and 'Eagle Claw'. They promptly ran down the road towards the far end of the police blockade. Until last night no one had ever seen these individuals before"
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And you buy that story? I guess it fits your narrative of big oil strong arming those poor, noble natives. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Ginormousaurus wrote: |
| alongway wrote: |
| Ginormousaurus wrote: |
| alongway wrote: |
I honestly think Canada is very corrupt. Right now the government is in the middle of strong arming a bunch of natives so that some gas company can come in and pollute people's ground water.
|
I think you have it backwards. Those violent natives are attempting to strong arm the government and the oil company. They were the ones who brought weapons to their "peaceful" protest and proceeded to torch a bunch of cop cars when the police were attempting to enforce the rule of law. Were the homemade bombs they brought intended to highlight their peaceful intentions? |
Try again, it's been suggested those came from agent provocateurs which the rcmp have used before that did that.
"Still in the pre-dawn dark, about seven molotov cocktails flew out of the woods opposite the police line stationed in the ditch. I cannot verify who threw these cocktails. They were – if it matters - lobbed ineffectively at the line of police and merely splashed small lines of fire across the road. A lawn chair caught fire from one cocktail. Two camouflaged officers then pumped three rounds of rubber bullet shotgun blasts into the woods.
Shortly after, three so-called warriors with a journalist in tow – who claim to have arrived two nights ago from Manitoba – appeared to have determined that the situation was too extreme for them. Two of them have since been identified as Harrisen Freison and 'Eagle Claw'. They promptly ran down the road towards the far end of the police blockade. Until last night no one had ever seen these individuals before"
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And you buy that story? I guess it fits your narrative of big oil strong arming those poor, noble natives. |
Try googling RCMP and agent provocateur.
The RCMP loves using them so much they must get positively wet any time someone even hints there is a protest. Past and on-going usage of them has been confirmed by their own files.
| Quote: |
| Counterfeiting money or products or what? |
You'd have to dig into the site I gave you, but the raw numbers are pretty clear. 3/5s the population 3x the blackmarket/underground economy (it seems likely the information on those sites is talking about something different than the other numbers you're bringing up)
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| It's fun to see when he gets all worked up over something. |
I'm not worked up, but continually trying to go there seems like some pretty desperate projection on your part. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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My links talked about the size of underground economies. (It's quite clear Korea's is much larger than Canada's.) The havocscope.com site talked about cross country smuggling across international borders. On that site, the United States is by far the number one country. Does that mean the U.S. is the most corrupt country in the world? Hell no. It just means the U.S. is the richest country in the world, and as a consequence, it means people there do the most drugs. (Which is true. They have money to blow because they are so rich.) I think that site is talking about potential markets and how much international criminals can make from that market. It's not necessarily saying the criminals are from that country.
Here's the list:
http://www.havocscope.com/country-profile/
#43: North Korea
Last edited by World Traveler on Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| My links talked about the size of underground economies. (It's quite clear Korea's is much larger than Canada's.) The havocscope.com site talked about cross country smuggling across international borders. On that site, the United States is by far the one country. Does that mean the U.S. is the most corrupt country in the world? Hell no. It just means people there do the most drugs. (Which is true.) |
Not all of the stats are referring to smuggled goods. The counterfeit goods may or may not be smuggled. Movie and software piracy doesn't involve smuggling per se (but both likely to be completely manufactured numbers)
cable piracy certainly doesn't, drug trafficking may (but not all since a lot of weed comes from BC)
Furthermore your numbers are highly suspect (and self-serving, since they come from the government of canada) as they claim canada is only 36 billion, yet the drug trade alone is that much or more
http://www.havocscope.com/canadian-drug-organizations-sales-in-the-united-states/ |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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Those are sales in the United States. That counts as part of Canada's economy? I guess if they spend the money in Canada and not the U.S. it would be. (And I guess too they grew the drugs on Canadian soil, right?) I've got a challenge for you, apologist man. The Korean government said the underground economy is more than $300 billion per year. Try to demonstrate how the Canadian underground is anywhere near that. (It's not.)
| alongway wrote: |
| Furthermore your numbers are highly suspect (and self-serving, since they come from the government of canada) |
Why would the government underreport the underground economy estimates? They want to get tax money they are missing out on. That's probably why they made that estimate.
Last edited by World Traveler on Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Those are sales in the United States. That counts as part of Canada's economy? I guess if they spend the money in Canada and not the U.S. it would be. (And I guess too they grew the drugs on Canadian soil right?) No need to imply my stats are wrong. That's pretty rude, apologist man. The Korean government said the underground economy is more than $300 billion per year. Try to prove the Canadian underground is anywhere near that before implying I am a liar or don't know what I am talking about. |
It does if they money goes back to Canada to the organizations, and even if half of it makes its way back it still blows a giant hole in the stats you've provided, and once again, I don't need to prove that Canada is just as bad or worse than Korea, I never said it was. I just said it was a lot worse than someone claimed it was. The stats come from the government, one known for lying to the people, and have obviously been massaged to make them look better. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
| I don't need to prove that Canada is just as bad or worse than Korea, I never said it was. |
Ah, so you agree Korea is worse than Canada/ Canada is better than Korea. There is nothing left to discuss then. (At least, there is no need to continue arguing.) |
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byrddogs
Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
| Quote: |
| It's fun to see when he gets all worked up over something. |
I'm not worked up, but continually trying to go there seems like some pretty desperate projection on your part. |
Sure you aren't. Hammering away at that keyboard for your causes. LOL at you and your battles. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| byrddogs wrote: |
| alongway wrote: |
| Quote: |
| It's fun to see when he gets all worked up over something. |
I'm not worked up, but continually trying to go there seems like some pretty desperate projection on your part. |
Sure you aren't. Veins popping as you type away. LOL at you and your battles. |
 You sure nailed that one. You should call kreskin because he can probably put you to work. Whatever gets you through the night.
| World Traveler wrote: |
| alongway wrote: |
| I don't need to prove that Canada is just as bad or worse than Korea, I never said it was. |
Ah, so you agree Korea is worse than Canada/ Canada is better than Korea. There is nothing left to discuss then. (At least, there is no need to continue arguing.) |
This would be much quicker if you'd actually pay attention, as it was already covered.
I said that it was impossible to know, there is likely no one that really knows the true depths of corruption in both Korea and Canada. |
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