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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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 Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Skepticism is a good instinct. |
So now we have unprecedented high-level talks happening between DPRK and the ROK. This week.
Jong-Uns administration has held press conferences and has been communicating messages of a desire for reconciliation for the past 2 months now.
If you hold on to your useless scepticism for too long you miss the boat. It takes positivity and optimism to move forward. |
It's not unprecedented. They had talks in 2007 and 2010, and look how much good that did.
This is Pyongyang's strategy, so don't get your hopes up too high.
"A persistent misperception about North Korea, Lee argued then, "is that its provocative international behaviour is unpredictable". Instead, he insisted, Pyongyang's methods have been highly consistent since the early 1960s. "Its strategy has been to lash out at its enemies when it perceives them to be weak or distracted, up the ante in the face of international condemnation (while blaming external scapegoats) and then negotiate for concessions in return for an illusory promise of peace."
He further argued that since it could not compete economically with the flourishing South Korea, Pyongyang "can rely only on military and political brinkmanship to make up ground".
What that has meant in reality is a long history of dangerously inflammatory incidents that have created discrete crises short of full-blown conflict.
If the present actions feel full of febrile danger, it is worth recalling other North Korean adventures. In 1968, it attempted to kill the south's President Park Chung-hee and, when that failed, captured a US vessel, the Pueblo, killing one sailor and holding its crew captive for 11 months.
Commando raids, kidnappings, nuclear and missile tests have conformed to a pattern, often, as Lee asserts, being followed by a de-escalation and suing for negotiations and a return to the status quo ante."
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/apr/07/north-korea-posturing-predictable |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:50 am Post subject: |
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Remember the serious rumors that CBS, NBC and ABC news as well as the BBC etc started over the Khmer Rouge holocaust? What a total scam that was. And now we have to hear the networks and papers stating that something like 2,000,000 + North Koreans starved to death in North Korea. What a total scam. All propaganda if you ask me. 
Last edited by young_clinton on Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:04 am; edited 4 times in total |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| optik404 wrote: |
| I know a woman who works at the British Embassy in S. Korea who previously worked at the British Embassy in N.Korea for five years. She said it really wasn't that bad. Obviously she probably only saw what they wanted her to see. |
It's most likely not near as noticeably bad if you are lucky enough to live in Pyongyang. Those people generally have some kind of a life, food etc.. Those coming back to North Korea from China won't be bothered by the government as long as they attend parades, wave the flag enough or morn with real feeling when someone dies, or polishe the picture of the Kims and make sure that its hung perfectly straight. They also have to jump in with anti-US rhetoric when it is appropriate at the work place. If not maybe the gulag awaits them. I would think these things would especially be important if you lived in Pyongyang where you are probably more watched than in the starving outbacks, where apparently the government may only occasionally purge a few of the starving residents. |
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Hokie21
Joined: 01 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| young_clinton wrote: |
| Remember the serious rumors that CBS, NBC and ABC news as well as the BBC etc started over the Khmer Rouge holocaust? What a total scam that was. And now we have to hear the networks and papers stating that something like 2,000,000 + North Koreans starved to death in North Korea. What a total scam. All propaganda if you ask me. |
I know right. I've got this buddy whose Japanese, he was telling me how all the books and documentaries and stuff about the supposed "rape" of Nanking is a load of crap! The Japanese were actually liberating their Asian brethren from the western oppressors! Stupid western propaganda! |
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Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| Hokie21 wrote: |
| young_clinton wrote: |
| Remember the serious rumors that CBS, NBC and ABC news as well as the BBC etc started over the Khmer Rouge holocaust? What a total scam that was. And now we have to hear the networks and papers stating that something like 2,000,000 + North Koreans starved to death in North Korea. What a total scam. All propaganda if you ask me. |
I know right. I've got this buddy whose Japanese, he was telling me how all the books and documentaries and stuff about the supposed "rape" of Nanking is a load of crap! The Japanese were actually liberating their Asian brethren from the western oppressors! Stupid western propaganda! |
If Pol Pot happened today, the news writers would feel empty inside creatively. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Hokie21
Joined: 01 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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This is my surprised face.  |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| wishfullthinkng wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| wishfullthinkng wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| I'm willing to bet most of the ones that return won't be bothered by any government official, aside from maybe a bribe of the border guards to get back in. |
you must be kidding. that's an immediate life time sentence for you, your family and any future family they will have (who are obviously innocent, but hey, the great leader doesn't care about such thing) in one of the korean gulags.
you really need to read about north korea before you say stuff like this jvalmer. if you did, you'd know that north korea is a huge tattle-tale country and that it's instilled in them at birth. even the one guy who was able to successfully escape a korean gulag said that he tattled on his mother when she did something against the rules knowing she'd die because that's what he was taught to do.
spoiler alert:
she did indeed die. |
There are lots of North Koreans in China and Russia, and most don't plan on defecting and do return home. But I guess you don't get that story when you only read about defectors.
To remind you I'm not talking about some guy who spent time in a gulag. I'm just talking about some average North Korean in China making money and returning home with that money. Which happnes to be most North Korean in China. The defectors are the minority. |
you realize they escape to china because that border is far less regulated than the DMZ then they go home after making money by their own will to try and buy freedom for their families right? as well, china and north korea are allies and china deports them back to north korea (to a waiting death sentence) if caught and refuses to let them go to south korea...
remember that in korean culture they do anything for their families.
i haven't seen you post many silly things before but you should probably stop posting about this topic because you seriously don't seem to have a clue. |
Just because I don't agree with the you guys you call me idiot and silly.
Sorry if you people can't believe I am skeptical of all the one-sided stories coming from North Korean defectors. I just can't blindly believe that it's bad for 100% of the population. Maybe the top 20%, but the rest are left relatively along. But the people defecting tend to be from the well-off class and very political, hence the reason for defecting. But most people aren't active in politics.
I do believe if you have caught the attention of the government in some negative way you'll in for a terrible time. But most people are just living their lives, and hardly cares who's in power. And the government will not bother them. |
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wishfullthinkng
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:27 am Post subject: |
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i'm not calling you silly jvalmer, i'm saying what you are typing is silly.
think about it, of course most of the defectors are from a higher caste and have political power. you need money and power to escape a regime such as north korea's, or just flat out luck and balls.
making random percentage stats is also pretty silly. how could you possibly think that only 20% of the population is suffering. have you read about the widespread famine that happened there a few years ago where it's estimated that up to 3.5million died? 3.5 MILLION people!
have you also read about the current state of affairs where most of the general population has almost nothing to eat and that most of the food is saved for their ridiculous military which is the largest in the world and more or less a huge and selfish waste of resources that could be going to the general population?
no, most people aren't just living their lives there, they are struggling to survive. there's a huge difference. they also do care who's in power and the government DOES bother them and is the most intrusive government in the world.
read about how south korean dramas are getting popular there and how people who get caught watching it either directly by the government or by people ratting on them are sent to harsh "re-education camps" meaning slave labour camps.
as myself and many have said, you need to do A LOT of research and reading about the topic and stop assuming things. the facts about north korea aren't coming from bored adjummas wanting to spin a tale, it's coming from survivors, defectors, escapees, surveillance and world help groups.
edit: out of an estimated population of 22million at the time, 3.5million dead would be around 6.2% of the total population. think about that not-random or made up percentage for a few minutes... if you use the total population of america as a comparison that'd be like 18.6 million americans dead... |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:34 am Post subject: |
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/02/north-korea-workers-china_n_1643433.html
It's articles like the one above that I don't blindly believe that it's bad for everyone in NK. It maybe repressive for some, but most don't care and just go about their business trying to feed their families. If NK rulers were so concerned about mass defections they wouldn't even consider this. There are also North Koreans in Russia too, and not many defect.
I'm not sayig I want to live there, and I don't admire those Koreans that got caught on the wrong side of the border after the Korean War. Just saying that most keep their head low and probably won't be sent to a prison camp. |
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Hokie21
Joined: 01 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/02/north-korea-workers-china_n_1643433.html
It's articles like the one above that I don't blindly believe that it's bad for everyone in NK. It maybe repressive for some, but most don't care and just go about their business trying to feed their families. If NK rulers were so concerned about mass defections they wouldn't even consider this. There are also North Koreans in Russia too, and not many defect.
I'm not sayig I want to live there, and I don't admire those Koreans that got caught on the wrong side of the border after the Korean War. Just saying that most keep their head low and probably won't be sent to a prison camp. |
lol did you even read the article you posted?
"The North Korean government has reportedly outsourced some of its population to Russia, where the workers live and work in horrific conditions in Siberia, with most of their pay sent to fund the North Korean government..."
So the North Korean gov't sends it's citizens to work in what is basically a slave labor camp in Russia and you again think of this as not so bad? From the sounds of this camp it doesn't appear the people have much choice in the matter. I highly doubt they love their country so much they volunteer to be sent to a labor camp in Siberia, suffering under terrible conditions where most of their money goes not to their family, but to their gov't back home.
Another quote from your article.
"North Korea, which is run by a communist regime, has a relatively tenuous financial situation. Two-thirds of the country’s population faces chronic food shortages, the United Nations reported last month. The country has largely relied on outside aid to feed its population since a famine in the 1990s."
Again. Sounds awesome. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| Hokie21 wrote: |
| I highly doubt they love their country so much they volunteer to be sent to a labor camp in Siberia. |
They probably do volunteer, because they view it as their patriotic duty and also because its better than what they have at home.
You underestimate the patriotic fervor of North Koreans.
No amount of hardships is going to prevent the majority of them loving their country and their race, or make them question their own government. Especially when they view hardship is something caused by outside forces, not by their rulers.
| JValmer wrote: |
| It's articles like the one above that I don't blindly believe that it's bad for everyone in NK. It maybe repressive for some, but most don't care and just go about their business |
Exactly. I've read all the same types of sources and accounts on NK that are available and what you get is a picture that is a bit more mixed than what the western media portrays.
If you live in the cities then you have access to basic goods and services and life is fairly ok.
Out in the countryside people are poorer and regularly victims of floods and famine, but they still don't realize how badly off they are on a global scale.
Then of course you have the prison camps out in the remote areas which are hideous examples of inhumanity. |
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Hokie21
Joined: 01 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| Actually you're right, many do probably volunteer to go but not for the reason you've given. They don't do it for patriotism, they do it to try to provide money for their family. |
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