|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
DaeguNL
Joined: 08 Sep 2009
|
 Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:57 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| northway wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| DaeguNL wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| DaeguNL wrote: |
not really racism, but does anyone else get annoyed by just about every random adjossi using banmal when talking to you.
Security guard, taxi driver, store clerk etc.
Yesterday I went to my afterschool program. The security guard greeted a couple teachers ahead of me with an " 안녕하세요!" he then looked right at me and said"어디가?" I replied 영어교실 가세요. He grunted "어떻게?"
I told him 저는 방과후 영어 강사 입니다. (I am an Afterschool English teacher).
I asked him not to speak 반말 to me, and he looked at me like I had two heads.
In this guys mind, the foreign teachers deserve about as much respect as the elementary students at the school. |
So I'm sure you address your elementary aged students or those college freshman as "sir" and "madam?" or even "Mr." or "Ms." when speaking to them in English? You don't? Must be because you are racist! |
This is possibly the dumbest response you have ever had, and thats saying something.
Why would I call the students sir or madam? I already stated they were elementary students. I certainly use the most formal language when addressing other teachers at the school though.
I heard the guy speaking formal language to other teachers/parents, yet he spoke to me the same was as he would an 8 year old child.
It must be to much to ask to be spoken to the same way as my coworkers, many of which are younger than me. |
Well, I'm just saying that if someone older than you doesn't use the polite form, consider how often YOU use the polite form of English towards younger people yourself. |
This post is retarded. You're smarter than this. There is a world of difference between Korean and English when it comes to the polite form. This is in a work setting: the security guard should be using the polite form. I know you like to be contrarian for the sake of being contrarian but come on. |
Exactly. I don't think its too much to ask to be spoken to the same as my co-workers. It's been a long time since I had to sit at the kids table for dinner, but thats what it felt like. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| DaeguNL wrote: |
Well for the record I use the polite form 100% of the time with people I don't know. And that even includes kids or teens. Its really not that hard to add a yo to the end to avoid making a stranger feel uncomfortable.
|
Well that's fair. I had a middle school teacher who would always address us as "Mr. Cagney" or "Mr. Lane" or "Ms. Adamson". It wasn't very warm, but that demeanor kept the class very focused.
I did that with certain 6th grade classes when I taught elementary.
As long as you are consistent. I just don't care for people who are upset when older Koreans don't use the polite form to them but back home in English they would address older people as "Sir" or "Ma'am", but not do the same for younger people or kids. It's not the same as Korean, but the underlying sentiment is similar. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
| DaeguNL wrote: |
Well for the record I use the polite form 100% of the time with people I don't know. And that even includes kids or teens. Its really not that hard to add a yo to the end to avoid making a stranger feel uncomfortable.
|
Well that's fair. I had a middle school teacher who would always address us as "Mr. Cagney" or "Mr. Lane" or "Ms. Adamson". It wasn't very warm, but that demeanor kept the class very focused.
I did that with certain 6th grade classes when I taught elementary.
As long as you are consistent. I just don't care for people who are upset when older Koreans don't use the polite form to them but back home in English they would address older people as "Sir" or "Ma'am", but not do the same for younger people or kids. It's not the same as Korean, but the underlying sentiment is similar. |
But even then it's regional. Being from New England, all my friends parents were called by their first names, and the whole sir/ma'am thing was kept to a minimum as compared to the South or the Midwest. My high school teachers were Bill and Louise, not Mr. Smith and Mrs. Jones. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| northway wrote: |
There is a world of difference between Korean and English when it comes to the polite form. This is in a work setting: the security guard should be using the polite form. |
This isn't strictly true. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| nicwr2002 wrote: |
| KimchiNinja wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
And why didn't you mention China? That's racism right there!  |
Because Atwood, China has much higher avg IQ than the Philippines. Given the choice between two poor countries, it is rational to select more heavily from China, unless you want low IQ people for some specific form of work. This is called differentiation. Differentiation is necessary when running a business or country. Calling it racism is silly, but it's what Westerners do.
Differentiation: to see or state the difference or differences between two or more things. |
That's a pretty racist statement right there. You are saying they have a low IQ because they are Filipino? |
Again, racism is a silly concept and this fear-mongering / witch-hunt stuff has no power over me.
Better to define it as "humans being suspicious of people from other tribes". Defined that way the WSJ article makes more sense; Koreans view themselves as high income people and are suspicious of low income people (not based on race, but income). But then it shows how pointless the whole thing is, since it is not necessarily suspicion/fear, but calm rational immigration policy decision making!
Yes, Filipino avg IQ is a full 1 1/2 standard deviations below Korean IQ. That is significant. This is not "suspicion of people who are different" (racism), this is a fact. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DaeguNL
Joined: 08 Sep 2009
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Fox wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
There is a world of difference between Korean and English when it comes to the polite form. This is in a work setting: the security guard should be using the polite form. |
This isn't strictly true. |
Generally, it is. If the guard did the same thing with the wrong parent, he would be out of a job. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DaeguNL wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
There is a world of difference between Korean and English when it comes to the polite form. This is in a work setting: the security guard should be using the polite form. |
This isn't strictly true. |
Generally, it is. If the guard did the same thing with the wrong parent, he would be out of a job. |
The first part is strictly true, the second part might not be strictly true but is at least generally true. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
joelove
Joined: 12 May 2011
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
"Racism is a silly concept."
Yes, I suppose it is. And it is silly how we think. We are interested in dividing ourselves into groups. We do this nationally, religiously, and racially. And other ways, I guess. We like doing this, for some reason. You wonder what it's all about. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| northway wrote: |
| The first part is strictly true ... |
Yes. The first sentence wasn't what I was talking about, in case it wasn't clear.
| northway wrote: |
| the second part might not be strictly true but is at least generally true. |
It's not even generally true. Old men have a high level of discretion with regards to their speech patterns, especially when speaking in a one on one capacity as opposed to in a group environment. Telling foreigners that the old guy at work shouldn't be speaking banmal to them is setting up false expectations which can needlessly lead to hard feelings later, because within the context of Korean culture and language, it's simply not true. It's hard enough for foreigners to fit in here without impressing such ideas on them. Plenty of banmal gets tossed around in work settings in Korea. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| northway wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| DaeguNL wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| DaeguNL wrote: |
not really racism, but does anyone else get annoyed by just about every random adjossi using banmal when talking to you.
Security guard, taxi driver, store clerk etc.
Yesterday I went to my afterschool program. The security guard greeted a couple teachers ahead of me with an " 안녕하세요!" he then looked right at me and said"어디가?" I replied 영어교실 가세요. He grunted "어떻게?"
I told him 저는 방과후 영어 강사 입니다. (I am an Afterschool English teacher).
I asked him not to speak 반말 to me, and he looked at me like I had two heads.
In this guys mind, the foreign teachers deserve about as much respect as the elementary students at the school. |
So I'm sure you address your elementary aged students or those college freshman as "sir" and "madam?" or even "Mr." or "Ms." when speaking to them in English? You don't? Must be because you are racist! |
This is possibly the dumbest response you have ever had, and thats saying something.
Why would I call the students sir or madam? I already stated they were elementary students. I certainly use the most formal language when addressing other teachers at the school though.
I heard the guy speaking formal language to other teachers/parents, yet he spoke to me the same was as he would an 8 year old child.
It must be to much to ask to be spoken to the same way as my coworkers, many of which are younger than me. |
Well, I'm just saying that if someone older than you doesn't use the polite form, consider how often YOU use the polite form of English towards younger people yourself. |
This post is retarded. You're smarter than this. There is a world of difference between Korean and English when it comes to the polite form. This is in a work setting: the security guard should be using the polite form. I know you like to be contrarian for the sake of being contrarian but come on. |
IT BEGINS WITH YOU, NORTHWAY. BE THE HAND OF CHANGE.
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cave Dweller
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have no doubt that Filipinos have lower IQ than Koreans by however IQ is measured, but by no means is it an indication of maximum potential. The Philippines' education system is probably not very good and a lot of poverty can hurt them in that respect too.
| KimchiNinja wrote: |
| nicwr2002 wrote: |
| KimchiNinja wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| And why didn't you mention China? That's racism right there! |
Because Atwood, China has much higher avg IQ than the Philippines. Given the choice between two poor countries, it is rational to select more heavily from China, unless you want low IQ people for some specific form of work. This is called differentiation. Differentiation is necessary when running a business or country. Calling it racism is silly, but it's what Westerners do.
Differentiation: to see or state the difference or differences between two or more things. |
That's a pretty racist statement right there. You are saying they have a low IQ because they are Filipino? |
Again, racism is a silly concept and this fear-mongering / witch-hunt stuff has no power over me.
Better to define it as "humans being suspicious of people from other tribes". Defined that way the WSJ article makes more sense; Koreans view themselves as high income people and are suspicious of low income people (not based on race, but income). But then it shows how pointless the whole thing is, since it is not necessarily suspicion/fear, but calm rational immigration policy decision making!
Yes, Filipino avg IQ is a full 1 1/2 standard deviations below Korean IQ. That is significant. This is not "suspicion of people who are different" (racism), this is a fact. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Cave Dweller wrote: |
| I have no doubt that Filipinos have lower IQ than Koreans by however IQ is measured, but by no means is it an indication of maximum potential. |
To state the obvious -- if you don't know anything about IQ, you can't know that it isn't an indication of potential. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cave Dweller
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
So give me an IQ test in German and watch me score 20 or 30. They'll put a drool cup under my chin and give me an English test, and I'll score over 100.
| KimchiNinja wrote: |
| Cave Dweller wrote: |
| I have no doubt that Filipinos have lower IQ than Koreans by however IQ is measured, but by no means is it an indication of maximum potential. |
To state the obvious -- if you don't know anything about IQ, you can't know that it isn't an indication of potential. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Cave Dweller wrote: |
| So give me an IQ test in German and watch me score 20 or 30. They'll put a drool cup under my chin and give me an English test, and I'll score over 100. |
No. The tests are administered fairly, and reflect the actual difference in intelligence. Off topic though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cave Dweller
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
So you probably believe these studies that countries like Korea puts out that has the people of the han clearly above the 100 mark, westerners at about 100, and Africans at about 70.
Because they are administered 'fairly'.
| KimchiNinja wrote: |
| Cave Dweller wrote: |
| So give me an IQ test in German and watch me score 20 or 30. They'll put a drool cup under my chin and give me an English test, and I'll score over 100. |
No. The tests are administered fairly, and reflect the actual difference in intelligence. Off topic though. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
