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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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 Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Plain Meaning wrote: |
http://crfb.org/document/crfb-estate-tax-bill-would-add-debt
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CRFB: Estate Tax Bill Would Add to the Debt
April 16, 2015
The House passed legislation today to repeal the estate tax without offsetting revenue or spending, costing $269 billion over ten years. It also passed a bill to make the state and local sales tax deduction permanent, at a cost of $42 billion over ten years.
Maya MacGuineas, president of the Committee for a Responsible Budget, said the following:
“With record-high national debt levels currently at $13 trillion and growing, it's hard to make the case that adding further to the debt is a good idea. This failure to pay for this legislation is completely at odds with rhetoric about fiscal responsibility and balanced budgets.
“Between the $140 billon SGR ‘doc fix’ Congress just passed, and the $310 billion cost of these bills, there is clearly a disturbing trend.
“Not only would these bills add to the debt, they conflict with the recently passed House budget resolution, which balances the budget in the next decade. If these bills pass, the budget would no longer balance – the $33 billion surplus in 2025 would instead be a $20 billion deficit. It is impossible to take a budget resolution seriously if lawmakers pass a balanced budget and then bust that budget plan before it is even finalized.
“Bringing our debt under control will require tough choices and changes to all parts of the budget, including entitlement reforms, spending constraints, and new revenues. If Congress is unwilling to make these needed changes at this time, the very least it should do is agree not to make the debt worse." |
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It's got to make it through the Senate still, right?
And if that happens, Obama will veto it. |
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Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:30 am Post subject: |
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Ten Facts You Should Know About the Federal Estate Tax
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=2655
1. Roughly 2 of Every 1,000 Estates Face the Estate Tax
Today, 99.8 percent of estates owe no estate tax at all, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation
2. Taxable Estates Generally Pay Less Than One-Sixth of Their Value in Tax
Among the few estates nationwide that owed any estate tax in 2013, the effective tax rate — that is, the share of the estate’s value paid in taxes — was 16.6 percent, on average, according to the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center (TPC
3. Large Loopholes Enable Many Estates to Avoid Taxes
Many wealthy estates employ teams of lawyers and accountants to develop and exploit loopholes in the estate tax that allow them to pass on large portions of their estates tax-free.
4. Only a Handful of Small, Family-Owned Farms and Businesses Owe Any Estate Tax
Only roughly 20 small business and small farm estates nationwide owed any estate tax in 2013, according to TPC.
5. The Largest Estates Consist Mostly of “Unrealized” Capital Gains That Have Never Been Taxed
Much of the money that wealthy heirs inherit would never face any taxation were it not for the estate tax.
6. The Estate Tax Is a Significant Revenue Source
The estate tax will generate about $246 billion over 2016-2025 under current law, according to CBO.[17] While this is less than 1 percent of federal revenue over the period, it is significantly more than the federal government will spend on the Food and Drug Administration, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the Environmental Protection Agency combined.
7. Repeal Would Likely Leave Less Capital for Investment
Claims that eliminating the estate tax would encourage people to save and thereby make more capital available for investment do not take into account the impact on government borrowing.
8. Compliance Costs Are Modest
The public and private costs associated with estate tax compliance — including IRS costs to administer the tax and taxpayer costs for estate planning and administering an estate when a person dies — equaled about 7 percent of estate tax revenues in 1999.
9. The United States Taxes Estates More Lightly Than Comparable Countries
Twenty-seven of the 34 members of the Organisation for Economic Co-Operation and Development levied some form of estate tax, inheritance tax, or other wealth or wealth transfer tax in 2012 (the latest year for which full data are available). U.S. estate and gift tax revenues at all levels of government were well below average among these 27 countries as a share of the economy.[24]
10. The Estate Tax Is the Most Progressive Part of the U.S. Tax Code
Because it affects only those who are most able to pay, the estate tax is the most progressive component of a tax code that overall is only modestly progressive, particularly when regressive state and local taxes are taken into account. |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Sector7G wrote: |
Ten Facts You Should Know About the Federal Estate Tax
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=2655
1. Roughly 2 of Every 1,000 Estates Face the Estate Tax
Today, 99.8 percent of estates owe no estate tax at all, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation
2. Taxable Estates Generally Pay Less Than One-Sixth of Their Value in Tax
Among the few estates nationwide that owed any estate tax in 2013, the effective tax rate — that is, the share of the estate’s value paid in taxes — was 16.6 percent, on average, according to the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center (TPC
3. Large Loopholes Enable Many Estates to Avoid Taxes
Many wealthy estates employ teams of lawyers and accountants to develop and exploit loopholes in the estate tax that allow them to pass on large portions of their estates tax-free.
4. Only a Handful of Small, Family-Owned Farms and Businesses Owe Any Estate Tax
Only roughly 20 small business and small farm estates nationwide owed any estate tax in 2013, according to TPC.
5. The Largest Estates Consist Mostly of “Unrealized” Capital Gains That Have Never Been Taxed
Much of the money that wealthy heirs inherit would never face any taxation were it not for the estate tax.
6. The Estate Tax Is a Significant Revenue Source
The estate tax will generate about $246 billion over 2016-2025 under current law, according to CBO.[17] While this is less than 1 percent of federal revenue over the period, it is significantly more than the federal government will spend on the Food and Drug Administration, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the Environmental Protection Agency combined.
7. Repeal Would Likely Leave Less Capital for Investment
Claims that eliminating the estate tax would encourage people to save and thereby make more capital available for investment do not take into account the impact on government borrowing.
8. Compliance Costs Are Modest
The public and private costs associated with estate tax compliance — including IRS costs to administer the tax and taxpayer costs for estate planning and administering an estate when a person dies — equaled about 7 percent of estate tax revenues in 1999.
9. The United States Taxes Estates More Lightly Than Comparable Countries
Twenty-seven of the 34 members of the Organisation for Economic Co-Operation and Development levied some form of estate tax, inheritance tax, or other wealth or wealth transfer tax in 2012 (the latest year for which full data are available). U.S. estate and gift tax revenues at all levels of government were well below average among these 27 countries as a share of the economy.[24]
10. The Estate Tax Is the Most Progressive Part of the U.S. Tax Code
Because it affects only those who are most able to pay, the estate tax is the most progressive component of a tax code that overall is only modestly progressive, particularly when regressive state and local taxes are taken into account. |
Despite all this the elites and republicans are able to convince Joe Sixpack that "death taxes" and many other things are evil and "you don't want to be a socialist like them Europeans, do ya?" |
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Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
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| Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| EZE wrote: |
| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| I simply have no sympathy for you. Go see an estate and trust planning attorney. I am sure one can help save a dramatic amount of estate taxes, particularly if your parents/whoever plan ahead. |
Of course not. It's an alien concept for you, something you only read about. But I won't need sympathy. When I sell the family farm, my net worth will be going up, so I'll be okay. It's the USA that will become poorer, especially after the tax revenues are inevitably squandered on our food stamp society and our gazillion dollar military.
According to your own cut and paste, the maximum amount of estate taxes that can be saved is $628,000, and that's if the landowner wants to pay property taxes without having property rights.
Farms in the USA are increasingly becoming foreign owned and my family's is going to become one of them. I have less than $400,000 and the estate taxes will be in the millions no matter what. There's no amount of estate planning that make it avoidable. It's mathematically impossible to not lose at least a fraction of the farm, but I'll most likely sell it in full after harvesting the timber. |
http://billmoyers.com/content/toolbooths-digital-higway-bill-gates-sr-chuck-collins-inheritance-tax-scientist-devra-davis-killer-smog-jumpstarted-clean-air-act/#inheritance-tax
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MOYERS: True or false: many family farms must be sold off to pay for the Federal taxes due on them when the owner dies.
COLLINS: That’s false.
A number of investigative reporters have gone out to the midwest, they even went to Iowa, and they asked the American Farm Bureau, one of the proponents of repeal, to produce a single example of a farm that had been lost to the estate tax and they could not find one.
And they…the president of the Farm Bureau even sent out an urgent e-mail across the country saying, please, send us examples — but produced none. |
(Emphasis added and formatting altered) |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| I simply have no sympathy for you. Go see an estate and trust planning attorney. I am sure one can help save a dramatic amount of estate taxes, particularly if your parents/whoever plan ahead. |
I had my doubts about the honesty of your position before. Thank you for clearing the air.
We have provided specific, first-hand examples of problems with your approach to farmland estate taxes, and your response here is little more than contemptuous self-interest. Yes, I'm aware that superfluous hurdles to property and wealth management are wonderful for your profession, but simply throwing your card on the table does not legitimize the need for your presence in the first place.
I haven't asked before, but I feel too compelled now: what happened to you? I mean, I can see where mises could have been browbeaten by the likes of Reggie until he came out the other side as Titus, but I'm having great difficulty drawing a line from mid-2000s Kuros to Plain Meaning. Did you find out that your family had a long, secret history with the Klan? |
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Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| I simply have no sympathy for you. Go see an estate and trust planning attorney. I am sure one can help save a dramatic amount of estate taxes, particularly if your parents/whoever plan ahead. |
I had my doubts about the honesty of your position before. Thank you for clearing the air.
We have provided specific, first-hand examples of problems with your approach to farmland estate taxes, and your response here is little more than contemptuous self-interest. Yes, I'm aware that superfluous hurdles to property and wealth management are wonderful for your profession, but simply throwing your card on the table does not legitimize the need for your presence in the first place.
I haven't asked before, but I feel too compelled now: what happened to you? I mean, I can see where mises could have been browbeaten by the likes of Reggie until he came out the other side as Titus, but I'm having great difficulty drawing a line from mid-2000s Kuros to Plain Meaning. Did you find out that your family had a long, secret history with the Klan? |
Geldedgoat loves me not.
I have done precisely zero work in estate tax, but I'm used to spurious attacks on my profession. There are plenty of reasons to support a robust estate tax, and there are many on this thread who also support it who are not lawyers.
My response detailed a host of relief measures, but honestly, an estate tax lawyer could save anyone with a family farm a lot of money. In fact, the kind of law that I practiced would not have offered the same amount of value-added as an estate tax lawyer can for farmland estate. |
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Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
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candy bar
Joined: 03 Dec 2012
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Eliminate the estate tax. It's simply another tax that's syphoned over into the welfare system. The baby's daddy and welfare queen need to go to work. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| candy bar wrote: |
| Eliminate the estate tax. It's simply another tax that's syphoned over into the welfare system. The baby's daddy and welfare queen need to go to work. |
Yes, all that unearned money needs to go to heirs, who also did not work for it. They, of course, do not need to work, obviously. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| candy bar wrote: |
| Eliminate the estate tax. It's simply another tax that's syphoned over into the welfare system. The baby's daddy and welfare queen need to go to work. |
Yes, all that unearned money needs to go to heirs, who also did not work for it. They, of course, do not need to work, obviously. |
I might be amenable to taxing any cash transfers of wealth as "income" or some such, but physical property should not be taxed.
Often it seems that people's motives for this tax is based upon resentment/jealousy and that is one part that makes me skeptical of it. I am not filled with rage and loathing at the idea of someone being born into wealth. While heirs and such do get a leg up in position at their parent's company, they have to retain a certain level of competency or they will quickly find themselves removed. People forget the aggressiveness and penchant for intrigue that shareholders and boards of directors bring. Think of a king and the nobles below him. He's got some leeway, but a king who disregards them completely tends to end up a dead king. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| candy bar wrote: |
| Eliminate the estate tax. It's simply another tax that's syphoned over into the welfare system. The baby's daddy and welfare queen need to go to work. |
Yes, all that unearned money needs to go to heirs, who also did not work for it. They, of course, do not need to work, obviously. |
I might be amenable to taxing any cash transfers of wealth as "income" or some such, but physical property should not be taxed.
Often it seems that people's motives for this tax is based upon resentment/jealousy and that is one part that makes me skeptical of it. I am not filled with rage and loathing at the idea of someone being born into wealth. While heirs and such do get a leg up in position at their parent's company, they have to retain a certain level of competency or they will quickly find themselves removed. People forget the aggressiveness and penchant for intrigue that shareholders and boards of directors bring. Think of a king and the nobles below him. He's got some leeway, but a king who disregards them completely tends to end up a dead king. |
The wealthy like to stay wealthy, wealth buys political influence, wealth over generations creates noblesse, this perverts politics, ergo I don't care about your skepticism or the 'victims' of this tax. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Grinds my gears: Königsberg is still Kaliningrad. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| candy bar wrote: |
| Eliminate the estate tax. It's simply another tax that's syphoned over into the welfare system. The baby's daddy and welfare queen need to go to work. |
Yes, all that unearned money needs to go to heirs, who also did not work for it. They, of course, do not need to work, obviously. |
I might be amenable to taxing any cash transfers of wealth as "income" or some such, but physical property should not be taxed.
Often it seems that people's motives for this tax is based upon resentment/jealousy and that is one part that makes me skeptical of it. I am not filled with rage and loathing at the idea of someone being born into wealth. While heirs and such do get a leg up in position at their parent's company, they have to retain a certain level of competency or they will quickly find themselves removed. People forget the aggressiveness and penchant for intrigue that shareholders and boards of directors bring. Think of a king and the nobles below him. He's got some leeway, but a king who disregards them completely tends to end up a dead king. |
The wealthy like to stay wealthy, wealth buys political influence, wealth over generations creates noblesse, this perverts politics, ergo I don't care about your skepticism or the 'victims' of this tax. |
Exactly. The U.S. is already statistically an oligarchy; there's no reason to make it worse. |
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Bongotruck
Joined: 19 Mar 2015
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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Someone has been watching Game of Thrones lately.
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| candy bar wrote: |
| Eliminate the estate tax. It's simply another tax that's syphoned over into the welfare system. The baby's daddy and welfare queen need to go to work. |
Yes, all that unearned money needs to go to heirs, who also did not work for it. They, of course, do not need to work, obviously. |
I might be amenable to taxing any cash transfers of wealth as "income" or some such, but physical property should not be taxed.
Often it seems that people's motives for this tax is based upon resentment/jealousy and that is one part that makes me skeptical of it. I am not filled with rage and loathing at the idea of someone being born into wealth. While heirs and such do get a leg up in position at their parent's company, they have to retain a certain level of competency or they will quickly find themselves removed. People forget the aggressiveness and penchant for intrigue that shareholders and boards of directors bring. Think of a king and the nobles below him. He's got some leeway, but a king who disregards them completely tends to end up a dead king. |
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Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 4:34 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Often it seems that people's motives for this tax is based upon resentment/jealousy and that is one part that makes me skeptical of it. |
I'm calling BS on this staid talking point. Name names and quote posts. |
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