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JohnML
Joined: 05 Jul 2015
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 Posted: Mon May 09, 2016 4:19 am Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| JohnML wrote: |
| ippy wrote: |
Dude, i dont genuinely care about how much money im on. I have a basic threshold. Its around 2.1 million flat. Anything higher than that is nice, anything lower than that is no-bueno. As mentioned, im also putting away 1000/month with no real effort. Perhaps thats my scottish thrifty genes at work, but im a man of few needs. And all of those needs are pretty much taken care of by very cheap hobbies (aside snowboarding). Compare this to my old job in the UK (shelf stacker at sainsburys during uni, and postie for two years after it) and its nice to not give a crap about 70 quid a week rent (2001-2005 - so very much higher by now id imagine), about 30% tax/student loan/NI deductions), and instead living on about 50% of my actual paycheque of a cool 300 pounds/week (a great deal of which goes on bills and council tax). Not really much scope for savings there.
Honestly, my 2.3 becomes about 2.2 post deductions, i dont pay rent, im not on the pull, im really wanting for nothing, so who the hell cares that its 'not that good' on some objective universal scale. Its great for me. I think youre not quite getting that. Its not great for you, and thats fine. Dont do it. Follow your rational self interest. Mine tells me that it beats the crap out of my work in the UK and it also, given my less than sprightly years and having locked myself into this career by accidentally staying a bit too long the first time i came out, it provides significantly more opportunity to at least build some saving foundation should i return to the uk and have to face an incredibly over-competitive graduate market.
Lets be honest, im no spring chicken, im not going to be any competition to a young and energetic 20 something for a graduate entry level job. Instead, im saving money here, im staying relevant in this field, im staying in the best paying market for a standard 9-5 gig in Asia (outside of JET), and im keeping my fingers in the pies for a potential move back to public school teaching in a couple of years to avoid hagwon burnout and keep things entertaining. On top of this, i have my savings to fall back on for another move into a different field (or to retrain and go back to uni).
I like the Korean market. Ive taught in Japan, Thailand, China and Korea, and its still my favorite of the four. Its literally never done me wrong. For exampls: Despite the incredible environment and culture and the job being very laid back, Japan destroys my savings every time i end up there. Thailand, even with its eternal sunshine and wonderful beaches is a rat-hole. Teaching is poorly paid and utter chaos. China's pollution and internet are awful and though you end up with a great deal of respect, the job is far more serious than the others (the students are amazing but teachers will really push you to teach like a Chinese teacher with incredibly dry repetitive exercises). Korea has that great mix of fun students, decent pay, nice benefits, good savings, and a great lifestyle.
I get that some of you want something else. Id definitely recommend a stint in China to be honest since that market is pretty much tailor made for a more entrepreneurial ESLer looking to subsidise a standard gig. If you have qualifications as well, Thailand is also a great prospect. Entry level is appalling, but once you cross into proper qualified status, youll be hitting anywhere from 60,000baht/month to 100,000. With the cost of living, and fun lifestyle, its definitely an option. Korea has a limit. I dont deny this. Its just that it fits what i want better than anywhere else. I dont feel impoverished, i dont feel like im suffering, i dont feel unhappy or unfulfilled. I love the people, i love the country and i love, believe it or not, my job. For me, its all right in that sweet spot. So really, telling me its not great just falls a bit flat. Its freaking amazing! But youre not me i suppose, so you dont necessarily see that. |
I actually mentioned in a previous post I think you made the right decision for yourself. What you should have done was get your foot in the door the instant you graduated but with 2 years in sainsbury's/postal service it would have been a lot harder. In which case I can see why you think that's good money.
Despite the impression you think I have of you, I think you're a normal decent bloke who got fucked in the UK. The first job is tough and some people don't make it. You're a pretty honest dude, I've also worked in Jap/China. Only China/Korea in TEFL though. Korea is the best money wise and Japan I know would suck the savings dry. I don't think the market is very good in China tho, too many people doing it.
You're better looking to teach another subject, that's where the money in "teaching" is at these days. Something not many people are doing. |
Too many folks in China teaching? I find that hard to believe. It's a much larger country than Korea. Wages seem on the rise over there, though there are low ball ads too.
I'd think China would need a half a million NETS. I wouldn't be surprised if there were only the same number of NETS there as here for a country that's 30 times the population of South Korea. As for Japan, I'm guessing you'd be paycheck to paycheck? |
Wages on the rise? Not for many years, they're pretty much the same as in 2010. There are not too many people teaching in China but there are a LOT more than some people would have you believe. Basically you earn less in China it's about uh 7000-15000 rmb a month (depending on city/level) a month but the living costs are cheaper. Overall I'd say it's slightly better than Korea but not by much. |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2016 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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JohnML makes some interesting and valid points. However, one must consider the degree type and level. Sure, even some freshly minted paper holding new grads back in N. America and perhaps even places in Europe, will start at ballpark USD 60K/year, but in what fields? Engineering? Bio? Chem? Finance?
Those with such majors are generally not long-term ELSers, and even if they do decide to make ESL their career, they usually bone up on teaching via certs and a related MA.
The bulk of the hagwon, unigwon, and public school teachers over here (and in China and in Tailand, and in...) have liberal arts degrees, and I don't know anyone with a liberal arts degree who started at 60K a year.
The nice thing about ESL is that you can settle. You can stop getting higher degrees (indeed, many think it's a waste of time and money), you can not do certs like the CELTA/DELTA (only valued in certain markets anyway, but they might get you over the hump in a competitive job hunt), and you can stop trying to move up the food chain.
IPPY likes his hagwon job and is satisfied. Good on him. Some would rather a university gig where you might work as many hours, but you get a few months of paid holiday a year. For those jobs, at least for the ones worth having, you need the MA. There are naysayers concerning the quality of u-gigs (yes, GENO, we acknowledge your input), but a load of people are making a good go of it. But it's entirely up the person as JohnML suggests.
Guess my point is that comparisons are fruitless if you're talking about options that many ESLers simply don't have given their majors. As I've said several times on different threads, though, ESL is a great way for new grads to pay off some debt and see a bit of the world, maybe even cut the apron strings. But if you DO have options based on your major, and if you DON'T think ESL is for you, then it's best to pack it in after a couple of years and get into your related market, either at 'home' or wherever you'd like to work.
Some are in the oposite position; they've done a career and made some good coin, and now they want a slower pace of life. They're not sweating the income too much. For them, maybe a kicked back hagwon job where you get to interact with a lot of locals is just what the doctor ordered. |
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