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University Requirements Going Up
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tophatcat

Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:40 am Post subject:

liveinkorea316 wrote:

There is a demand for teachers paid around 5-10 mil per month. This is at Cram hagwons as the previous poster said. Now, this demand is strong but 90% of it is for Korean-Americans not native speakers. That is the first thing to remember. They usually want fluent Korean and they want you to have credentials that include high scores in said exams such as SAT, TOEIC, TOEFL or other. Korean students will likely choose the Korean-American over a foreigner because they don't wanna learn English it is merely test prep and they are there for tips and skills for the test only. Koreans matter of fact are really good at that.

Yep.

Only a handful of foreigners have the credentials and are really good at it. However, the foreigners that have the credentials, connections, and that are really good at it can earn a nice salary.

Chaucer

Joined: 20 Oct 2009

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:56 am Post subject: Re: RE: University Requirements Going Up

Fallacy wrote:

The peak has passed. 2011 was the peak year for university age students from the ROK studying abroad in higher education. Specifically, the 2008-2009 academic year was the peak for students from the ROK studying in the USA. Uncoincidentally, this corresponds with a peak in the number of applicants in the ROK sitting for the annual CSAT held in the Fall, and for a peak in the % of high school leavers entering higher education in the ROK. The total number of entering freshman has fallen every academic year since. 2010 was the peak for NET's hired by EPIC as well, and in line with this, the total number of E-2 visas active in the ROK has fallen year over year since 2011. The decline in just the 10 year period from 2013 to 2023 is calculated at a minimum of minus 40%. None of this should be a surprise. The number of babies born in the ROK peaked in 1992 at 739,000. Fast forward 18 years to 2010, and voila. The decline is steep, and fast, from there to the floor, and flat going forward. In 2005, only 438,000 babies were born in the ROK, and a similar number (435k) were born just last year in 2014. In conclusion, demographically speaking, the ROK is now the new Japan. Extrapolate from these figures for impacts on the local TEFL industry accordingly.

This is spot on. I still have SAT students but nothing like near that peak; well, actually, I think the peak for SAT was around 2007-2008--absolute insanity and 15-20 million a month for a select few foreign Ivy grads (mostly gyopo) during summer vacation; the stragglers (students and teachers) have kept on but the decline has been precipitous. It was a tiny minority of teachers. They couldn't really speak of it at the time, almost, but I heard a bit of it. And now, post peak, they're hoping for a Bakken formation in Korea, of sorts, something to bring back peak-SAT.

JohnML

Joined: 05 Jul 2015

Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 7:15 am Post subject:

tophatcat wrote:

JohnML wrote:

tophatcat wrote:

JohnML wrote:

tophatcat wrote:

Dear JohnML

Not everyone is stuck at 24 million per year.

I know some teachers who make more than 35 million per year.

You don't know my salary. You are making a false claim by saying so. Therefor, no need to call me a liar.

"irregardless" LMAO

I advise you read over posts a little more carefully before responding. At no point did I say nobody was earning over 35 at no point did I say everyone was stuck at 24 million. I just said that huge demand you claim isn't there at all your response actually verifies this - when you wrote "some teachers". I also not once claimed to know your salary, I just said a lot of people lie about it and I've caught them out on it. People don't get so offended as you without reason, so what's your reason?

However if you want to go there, I absolutely believe you are a liar from the way you act, what of it? The last response is just stereotypical of someone who has no ground basis for an argument too, whilst that might be the type of response that would work against one of your 8 year old students when they call you strange looking. It's not something that is gonna work on someone like me, especially since you weren't the person who even picked up on it...

Now you are saying that there are teachers who are making more than 24 million and 35 million. Well, I'm glad that we got that mistake corrected. Or, was that just another typo you made?

I'm not offended, JohnML. I'm just going through and helping you clean the mistakes in your posts. Your posts just seem to bounce around all over the place with mistakes and typos.

Wow! Why would you outright call a person a liar when you have nothing to base it on?

Let's not get emotional, JohnML. Let's stick to fact based knowledge. No need for the childish name calling. Let's be adults here.

"This is total nonsense and everyone knows it. There is absolutely not anything remotely resembling a high demand for English teachers on 100 mil+ salaries, this is "smh" material. There is a decent/large demand for English teachers on 24 million/year salaries. There is barely any demand for English teachers above 35 million/year. Are you actually aware you are completely misleading people with this? Same goes to many of these people who are quoting ridiculous salaries. To feed your ego, you are misleading other people. Often a double lie quoting salaries you have "heard" of but aren't earning anywhere near."

Please highlight in my response where I said no English teacher earns 35+ million. Please, I'll wait. Now it's a case of you know you are wrong but are digging yourself into a deeper hole. Also as far as I'm concerned your lame insults and backtracking to find off topic material to insult me with (picking up on another posters correction) would suggest to me you are the one getting emotional. I could call you out on quite a few things including your lack of reading skills? Honestly I couldn't care less though. I'll leave it up to other people to decide who they think is backing up their arguments.

As for calling you a liar, you are stating that there is a huge demand for teachers around the 100 million+ mark annually, Which is about 4-5 times the average in Korea. Yeah... I think you're a rather obvious liar or you have never worked in Korea... which would also make you a liar... dang. You are making this too easy dude.

No, JohnML, that's not what I said. I didn't say there is a huge demand for teachers around the 100 million+ mark annually.

What I said was, there is a demand for teachers with dynamic skills and the ability to produce high English results. I never said huge, I simply said there is a demand. And there is a demand for teachers who manage to have their students achieve high test scores; such as achieving top SAT, TOEIC, and TOEFL scores. These teachers can bring in +100 million won per year.

Wink

No problem, glad to help you out there, JohnML.

Let me repeat what I said. There is in no way a demand for highly skilled teachers at any level on those salaries, there is an extremely competitive market is that is near saturated with people who have 15 years+ experience and professorship in the US/Can or wherever and have been working poor salaries for the last decade.

These people can find work for 60 million~ on tenured positions. If I was making a comparison would I say there is a demand for business consultants on 15+ years experience offering 300 million+ Not really there are some opportunities but it's hardly a demand, would you call a single job opening at a time being a demand? Hardly.

If there exists such a thing start posting these positions and then maybe more of us would be inclined to believe your total nonsense? Also remember dude this is a debate lets keep emotions out of it, everyone just wants to get to the bottom of the truth.

World Traveler

Joined: 29 May 2009

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:06 am Post subject:

Latest uni job posted on Dave's:

Quote:

Position : Visiting Professor
Minimum Qualifications : Teaching Experiences in the university level
Bachelor's degree holders should also have over 4 years teaching experience in a university level.
Master's degree holders should also have over 2 years teaching experience in a university level.
Teaching experiences of the EPIK, Private institute as Hak-won and Un-paid tutor are not counted for minimum qualification.

OK. We get it. The experience needs to be from a uni, not elsewhere.

Quote:

The teaching experiences of the Hak-won teacher, the EPIK assistant teacher, private tutor and unpaid tutor are not counted for minimum qualification and screening.
Applicants must be eligible for appointment according to private university regulations and satisfy the requirements for employment required by the Korean government.

Again?

Quote:

Certificates of employment (to verify work experience outlined in the application): 1 copy of each
- The certificates should be issued within the last 3 months.

The issued within the last three months bit is a ridiculous unnecessary pain in the @$$ hoop required just to apply. The applicant has to go back to previous places of unemployment to pick up a newer form? That's like asking a person to get a newer CBC from their home country even though they haven't been back since the last one was issued.

Quote:

Further Remarks
Applicants must be eligible for appointment according to private university regulations and satisfy the requirements for employment required by the Korean government.
Positions may not be filled if there are no satisfactory candidates.

Uni experience is all they will accept. They're not willing to bend on that one.

How much is the pay? 2.0 a month, which is $19,464 a year.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Joined: 18 Jun 2014

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:57 am Post subject:

World Traveler wrote:

Latest uni job posted on Dave's:

Quote:

OK. We get it. The experience needs to be from a uni, not elsewhere.

Quote:

Again?

Quote:

Certificates of employment (to verify work experience outlined in the application): 1 copy of each
- The certificates should be issued within the last 3 months.

Quote:

Uni experience is all they will accept. They're not willing to bend on that one.

How much is the pay? 2.0 a month, which is $19,464 a year.

I saw that ad. It's pretty ridiculous. Especially the employment certificates being issued within the last three months. The only thing that tells them is how much you're willing to let them make your life miserable.

I've always thought that discounting non-uni experience was silly. Hakwons I can see (though some are very well-run and employ excellent teachers), but if you can manage a class of high-schoolers. you can handle a class of uni freshmen.

I don't even know if that law is real. The unis themselves can't seem to agree if the two years of previous uni experience needs to be:

A) two years post MA
B) two years outside of the time you spent getting your MA (including before)
C) two years at any time (including time spent pursuing an MA)

Some unis and colleges count corporate experience. A company isn't a uni. If there's a law, how can they do this?

It's all nonsense...For $19,464 per year Sad

Basically the people in charge of hiring have NO IDEA what they need to be looking for - and include these silly requirements and interpretations of what they "think" the rules are to make it look as if they know what they are doing.

edwardcatflap

Joined: 22 Mar 2009

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:29 am Post subject:

Ridiculous hoops to jump through, poor English in the advert (would you get an interview if you wrote you had 'experiences in university level' in your covering letter?) low salary, a pitiful housing allowance (what can you get for 350,000 and no deposit nowadays) no mention of any TEFL qualifications required and by the sounds of it, a joke of a course (English conversation is the kind of class designed for bored housewives isn't it?) And it isn't even an entry level job for people who've never worked at a uni before.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Joined: 18 Jun 2014

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:29 am Post subject:

edwardcatflap wrote:

Ridiculous hoops to jump through, poor English in the advert (would you get an interview if you wrote you had 'experiences in university level' in your covering letter?) low salary, a pitiful housing allowance (what can you get for 350,000 and no deposit nowadays) no mention of any TEFL qualifications required and by the sounds of it, a joke of a course (English conversation is the kind of class designed for bored housewives isn't it?) And it isn't even an entry level job for people who've never worked at a uni before.

Not to mention that they have deemed the person they selected to be their HR contact not worthy of a university email address.

JohnML

Joined: 05 Jul 2015

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:49 am Post subject:

The job is bad no doubt but it isn't terrible, it's essentially an entry level job advertised with a below entry level salary 300,000 off the mark. If they dropped the 2 year teaching exp requirement and slapped MA TESOL required on it they'd get a lot of candidates who are looking to break into their first uni job. So what it seems to me like they are doing is fishing for someone who left/lost their job and is now looking to find a quick alternative. Isn't going to be easy for them but I think they'll get someone eventually there are quite a few low ball offers out there that get taken up all the time. How many jobs have higher requirements for slightly more pay, quite a lot. This is a calculated job offer, not a retarded one.

denverdeath

Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: Boo-sahn

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:29 am Post subject:

JohnML wrote:

The job is bad no doubt but it isn't terrible, it's essentially an entry level job advertised with a below entry level salary 300,000 off the mark. If they dropped the 2 year teaching exp requirement and slapped MA TESOL required on it they'd get a lot of candidates who are looking to break into their first uni job.

So what it seems to me like they are doing is fishing for someone who left/lost their job and is now looking to find a quick alternative. Isn't going to be easy for them but I think they'll get someone eventually there are quite a few low ball offers out there that get taken up all the time.

How many jobs have higher requirements for slightly more pay, quite a lot. This is a calculated job offer, not a retarded one.

Uh, that job (as per its description) IS pretty terrible nowadays. What a lot of people don't seem to consider is inflation. Posting ONE week before the start of the semester? Yeah, I'd be highly suspicious of that place. I actually hope they fill 0/4 of those positions. What happens then? They overwork the few they have left (IF they actually have any, that is)? And then? Well, I hope those ones ALL leave next semester. All those "qualified" Koreans they have left can teach them, er, maybe Korean?

SeoulNate

Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Location: Hyehwa

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:46 pm Post subject:

denverdeath wrote:

JohnML wrote:

They will hire it out part time before that happens.

I have no idea why, but at a few places that offer 2.0-3.0 as their starting wage for teachers, part timers get offered 50-60 an hour which is quite a bit more than they are paying their staffers Shocked

JohnML

Joined: 05 Jul 2015

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:02 pm Post subject:

denverdeath wrote:

JohnML wrote:

Semantics, bad/"pretty terrible". It's not really that terrible of a job, it's just below standard by a relatively small margin (300,000) or so, I'd call it bad. They're obviously not getting anyone in a week (unless they get lucky) but I won't pretend to know what their intention is. If they are in desperate need they will raise it/find temps, if not their offer likely won't change. I don't know enough info to judge the actual university itself so I don't see anything suspicious other than the fact they're quite sure of what they want and what they will give for it. I hope they don't fill the positions too but they will eventually, the rate isn't too bad to pass up for desperate people and there are a lot of those going around at the moment.

Nobody is going to leave a secure uni job unless it's complete trash and there is nothing to say the ones that have been there longer aren't earning 2.3~ i.e. the market norm. They are fishing, for sure. They figure they can claw a profit from this one and I'd agree with them. Also, I wouldn't scoff at Korean English teachers. Met many who could do an equal job to the average native university teacher here, they just may end up replacing a lot of teachers.

GENO123

Joined: 28 Jan 2010

Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:56 am Post subject:

(Less than/ or around) 2000 US dollars a month? Where doesit get you.. Such is ESL Korea. https://www.google.co.kr/search?client=ms-android-skt-kr&hl=en-KR&oe=utf-8&safe=images&q=poverty.level+2015&source=browser-suggest&qsubts=1456480239749&devloc=0

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