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Homer
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 Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:45 am Post subject: |
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Japan, who have been a football 'power' for far less time than Korea, do not exhibit these same symptoms.
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Ah..yes they do....if you want I will give you my brothers number in Tokyo (then again..that would be a bad idea). He ahs been living there since 1996.
Spain game: two goals dissalowed. That is true.
One was a dodgy call. The other was the right call.
Penalties...Spain choked...no other excuse.
Korea was fortunate in 2002...but luck is part of any sport no?
Anyway...as I said (3 times now)...I also think the media coverage here is too focused on the K-team. The difference is I can understand why it is this way. History of K participation in major sporting events
does play a key role in the way this is covered. You would have to be blind not to consider that a main factor.
Finally, sweet revenge for spain...perhaps....good for them if they win! I would enjoy seeing Spain go deep in the tournament.
I have had a sweetspot for the Italian team since the early 1990's but in 2002, they played piss poor and deserved every loss they suffered.
They played undisciplined football and vs Korea they were simply out played effort wise. Italy always cries to heaven after a loss...it is always the refs fault, the other team cheating...
They have dropped the ball often too (see Baggio 1994!). |
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pegpig
Joined: 10 May 2005
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
Your knee jerk reaction defence to any slight of Korea is rather amusing.
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It passed the 'amusing' stage a long time ago. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| They played undisciplined football and vs Korea they were simply out played effort wise. |
They also had a golden goal, that was miles onside, disallowed. The game should have finished then. Italy were poor, very poor, but they were still the rightful winners of that game.
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| The difference is I can understand why it is this way. History of K participation in major sporting events does play a key role in the way this is covered. You would have to be blind not to consider that a main factor. |
I'm not sure about that. South Korea have been the most successful team in Asia for some time now, and have qualified for every World Cup since 1986, yet the coverage of sporting events is still painfully biased to the point of being unsportsmanlike. Such behaviour has not just been confined to the World Cup either, but has reared its head in speed skating and gymnastics.
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| One was a dodgy call. The other was the right call. |
You must have been watching a different game, or perhaps you were watching it with a bunch of Koreans and your memory is a little hazy. Both calls were wrong, plain and simple. One was for a ball judged wrongly out of play, the other for a non-existent foul.
Let us hope there are no more referees from Mickey Mouse nations refeering such important matches. |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:00 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Homer
Anyone who saw the Italy game and is an honest football fan saw that Italy lost for only one reason: themselves.
They scored, sat on the lead and missed opportunity after opportunity to put the game out of reach. When Viery missed the goal on a breakaway (untouched) was that the referees fault?
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yes the Italians did make a mistake especially panucci who should have cleared that ball with a header but tripped over his own shoes and dropped the ball infront of the korean striker. bad defence from one of the best defence teams in the world!
viery mising the open goal! no excuse for that! hay maker.. to much pressure ran through his head. he wasnt thinking. thought he was gonna be the hero for italy, running alone and the ball came off his leg not his foot and the ball ended up in north korea somewhere!
BUT!!!
GATTUSSO!! now here we have a goal!! plain and simple was a goal!!
totti being sent off!?? come on!! thats BS
would of it made a difference? hard to say.. the way they were playing probably not!! but it might have prevented the goldern goal from AHN and forced it into penaltys where ITALY has choked many times anyway and probably would have again.. but you never know..
as an Italian born and raised.. I will say this!
ITALY played like rubbish!! they scraped their way into the 2nd round and got beaten by korea. where they should have beaten them 2.0 easy !!!
yes they played their defend the goal football which all ITALY fans hate
but if you watch that game closely it was a midfielders game!
strikers on both teams didnt get many chances at all!
zambrotta and guttoso were running their asses off! and the koreans wanting so much to beat their IDOLS ITALY..
yes italy lost.. was their own fault.. still the ref was no angel! he was to young, in experienced, and sure as hell was bribed!
I mean come on!! sure they cant dis allow a goal when its in your face.
but any close call goals or off sides can be ... remember FIFA is a business
its good for FIFA if korea advance. sold out tickets!! if korea did lose to italy what would have happend italy VS spain? well I would not have sold my ticket first of all! hahahaaha and then the germany game? would they be sold out games? id like to think so...
but would we would probably get will be.. koreans in the stands bashing drums and singing DAE HAN MING GUK!! all game and waving korean flags at the game!
now about the spain game.. COME ON that was a goal and no doubt about it!!!
but close calls means we go in favor of korea! becuase its more benefical to FIFA and the koreans if they win..
this will not be the case in germany!! KOREA will have to earn it!!!
sure they earned there place in 2002.. but they got lucky on other teams mistakes!! |
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Universalis
Joined: 17 Nov 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Neil wrote: |
To be honest most of my students aren't really bothered about Korea's group.
They are far more excited about the prospect of Japan getting a hammering from Brazil. |
I found the anti-Japanese sentiment during the 2002 WC particularly sad considering one of the stated reasons for having the two countries co-host the event was to help bring the them together. COmpare the reaction of some Japanese to the reaction of some Koreans (quotes collected during the 2002 WC).
Quotes from Japanese people:
" We want them (Korea) to advance further for the sake of all Asia "
Japanese newspaper Mainichi Shimbun
"As Japan lost, the Japanese feel the South Korean squad has taken over their role and are also playing for us because we are both co-hosting the tournament.��
"We want South Korea to win. Good luck to them."
"The World Cup has been very successful in terms of fostering good will."
"I definitely want South Korea to win now that Japan is no longer in the World Cup. Someone as old as me knows all too well that in the past a lot of things have happened between our two countries, but now times are changing; we have hosted this tournament together and from now on I hope our relationship will become even closer. I do not really understand football but it brings people together."
"I promised Korean soccer fans I would cheer for the Korean team Tuesday in front of Ikebukuro Station."
Quotes from Korean people:
``If our team goes to Yokohama, I see it being equal to Korea��s conquest of Japan.����
``I didn��t want to see Japan advance, while our team failed.����
``I don��t trust the Japanese.����
��I��m glad Japan lost.��
"Beating Japan in Japan would be the ultimate payback. But the very fact of winning the World Cup inside Japan would show all the Japanese people `we're No. 1; we're better than you guys.' The oppressors can easily forget what they've done. Victims never forget." |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
| I agree Korea benefited from home field advantage in 2002...much like the French team did in 1998. |
The outrageous refereeing decisions they benefited from play a more influential role in their run to the semi-finals. Indeed, their match against Spain was the controversial game I have ever seen.
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| If you want to talk about fan sporting grace...please leave the UK out of it as their fans get into brawls, fights and riots in every major major football event (Euro cup, World Cup). |
Our fans were some of the best behaved at the last world cup.
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| Sporting grace...Italy: banishing a Korean player who was on a local italian team after the ROK squad knocked out Italy in 2002. |
You should read more about this episode. While the owner of Perugia liked to boast that he dismissed Ahn Jung Hwan because his country eliminated Italy from the tournament, it's just as likely that Ahn's lack of footballing talent saw him pushed aside. Indeed, after his Perugia days ended he couldn't find a team who would employ him other than a mediocre J league team.
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| Columbia: players shot to death upon returning home in 1994 (or 1998) because they had played badly. |
Why have you written in the plural? Only Escobar was shot to death.
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| As for bad referee calls....news flash...every world cup has them...every single one. |
I have never seen a team benefit from a succession of awful refereeing decisions. We aren��t just talking about one game: They benefited from atrocious officiating in at least 3 different matches. It culminated in Gwangju where they beat the Spanish on penalties despite being completely outplayed and legitimately beaten by a two goal margin at least. They had twelve players out there on that afternoon. The level of help they received from the referee was unprecedented.
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| Hand of god anyone? |
How can you compare one decision in one match with a succession of atrocious decisions in consecutive matches? |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
Spain game: two goals dissalowed. That is true.
One was a dodgy call. The other was the right call. |
What game were you watching? Both the goals should have stood. The video evidence substantiates this. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| Let us hope there are no more referees from Mickey Mouse nations refeering such important matches. |
Good call. It's worth noting that an official involved in one of Korea's matches was later banned from refereeing by his own football association because he took bribes. On the lack of sporting grace displayed by Koreans: Nowhere is this more evident than in their coverage of Lee Yong Pyo and Park Ji Sung. If either one of them in so much as set up a goal the news will show it as part of the main news segment. If Tottenham won 4 - 0, but Lee Yong Pyo went on a mazy run in the 23rd minute, they will show his run, but won't bother showing any of the goals! |
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Swiss James
Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Gwangjuboy wrote: |
On the lack of sporting grace displayed by Koreans: Nowhere is this more evident than in their coverage of Lee Yong Pyo and Park Ji Sung. If either one of them in so much as set up a goal the news will show it as part of the main news segment. If Tottenham won 4 - 0, but Lee Yong Pyo went on a mazy run in the 23rd minute, they will show his run, but won't bother showing any of the goals! |
When the Olympics is on, see how much coverage (what we consider to be ) minor sports get unless GB win a medal. Remember when Nigel Mansel went to drive Nascar? That was the first time I'd heard of that 'sport', and it was barely mentioned again once he stopped competing.
It's not a lack of sporting grace to not show the goals from the English Premiership on a Korean news program.
Compare the Lee / Park scenario with Beckham at Real Madrid- I remember there being one week where the big story was him doing a post-match press conference in Spanish.
Which do you hear more about in England- La Liga, or Serie A? |
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Neil
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| That's right. Even when England didn't qualify for the World Cup in 1994, there was still a great deal of interest in the tournament, with coverage of all the games of TV. People appreciated watching the greatest players compete against each other. In fact, without the stress of watching England, it was very enjoyable to watch. |
Personally I thought the 1994 world cup was a weak competition. The only flair side (Argentina) went out too early and Ireland, Norway and Italy (Baggio aside) really stank the place out.
If we had won the war of independance then we would have qualified as host nation at a time when Gazza was at the height of his powers and walked it...oh well.
2002 wasn't as fixed as 1998 when a great Brazilian side forgot to turn up for the final. The Koreans didn't force Vieri to miss countless easy chances in the Italian game so I think they only paid off the ref of the Spanish game. At least unlike in 1998 the powers that be realised that the hosts actually winning the thing would be a little too obvious so they gave jerry the green light to knock the Koreans out in the semis.
Last edited by Neil on Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Swiss James
Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Neil wrote: |
If we had won the war of independance then we would have qualified as host nation at a time when Gazza was at the height of his powers and walked it...oh well.
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That's pure quality! |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| [quote="Swiss James"]When the Olympics is on, see how much coverage (what we consider to be ) minor sports get unless GB win a medal. |
I don't recall a poster condemning Korea for showing their olympic success stories.
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| Remember when Nigel Mansel went to drive Nascar? That was the first time I'd heard of that 'sport', and it was barely mentioned again once he stopped competing. |
Is this the best you have got? I don't even remembering hearing the story. It isn't remotely analogous to Koreans claiming other stars competing for other nations as their own, driving athletes from tournaments hosted here because they happened to beat their own man into first place for a gold medal, showing Lee Young Pyo passing the ball as part of the main news segment, and writing olympic guide books that refer to other nations disparagingly.
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| It's not a lack of sporting grace to not show the goals from the English Premiership on a Korean news program. |
I agree. If only they would show the goals. If Manchester Utd win a match they usually only show Park Ji Sung dribbling the ball around a player, or setting up a goal. Often, they don't show any of the goals unless they were scored by a Korean.
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| Compare the Lee / Park scenario with Beckham at Real Madrid- I remember there being one week where the big story was him doing a post-match press conference in Spanish. |
Do the BBC show Beckham passing the ball as part of their main news segment? The newspapers put these stories on the back page where they belong.
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| Which do you hear more about in England- La Liga, or Serie A? |
You can watch live serie A games on channel 4. Unless you have cable you can't even watch la liga games. |
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Swiss James
Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Gwangjuboy wrote: |
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| Swiss James wrote: |
| When the Olympics is on, see how much coverage (what we consider to be ) minor sports get unless GB win a medal. |
I don't recall a poster condemning Korea for showing their olympic success stories. |
I was giving an example of anglocentric sports coverage in our own fair nation. |
| gwangjuboy wrote: |
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| Remember when Nigel Mansel went to drive Nascar? That was the first time I'd heard of that 'sport', and it was barely mentioned again once he stopped competing. |
Is this the best you have got? I don't even remembering hearing the story. |
Is not remembering it the best you've got? The comparison is valid because someone from one country went to compete in another country, and suddenly people cared about how their boy was getting along abroad.
| gwangjuboy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| It's not a lack of sporting grace to not show the goals from the English Premiership on a Korean news program. |
I agree. If only they would show the goals. |
errr. What?
| gwangjuboy wrote: |
If Manchester Utd win a match they usually only show Park Ji Sung dribbling the ball around a player, or setting up a goal. Often, they don't show any of the goals unless they were scored by a Korean. |
I watch most of my football on Star Sports or ESPN where they show all of the goals for pretty much every Premiership game so I guess you're talking about a KBS news segment or something. Is it really so off the wall that a 2 minute sports news slot is going to restrict the coverage to "And now a quick look at how our boys in the EPL are doing" before they move onto the domestic baseball?
I hardly think it's unsporting behaviour.
| gwangjuboy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Compare the Lee / Park scenario with Beckham at Real Madrid- I remember there being one week where the big story was him doing a post-match press conference in Spanish. |
Do the BBC show Beckham passing the ball as part of their main news segment? The newspapers put these stories on the back page where they belong. |
We've had players in foreign leagues for donkeys years- this is the first season there have ever been Korean players in top flight clubs (well, Spurs) so watching Beckham take a free kick in a different shirt isn't such a big deal. But if you were a spaniard in England and saw a news story with 30 seconds of Beckham struggling to speak spanish but no clips from the match- well you can't deny it's a pretty similar scenario to what you're talking about.
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| Which do you hear more about in England- La Liga, or Serie A? |
You can watch live serie A games on channel 4. Unless you have cable you can't even watch la liga games.[/quote]
meh- I think you've got me there- I could try and argue that it's only cos it's cheaper or you don't see half as many Inter shirts as you do Real Madrid, but yeah- fair enough. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:00 am Post subject: |
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| Universalis wrote: |
| Neil wrote: |
To be honest most of my students aren't really bothered about Korea's group.
They are far more excited about the prospect of Japan getting a hammering from Brazil. |
I found the anti-Japanese sentiment during the 2002 WC particularly sad considering one of the stated reasons for having the two countries co-host the event was to help bring the them together. COmpare the reaction of some Japanese to the reaction of some Koreans (quotes collected during the 2002 WC).
<snipped: a lot of quotes from Japanese supporting Korea and Koreans hating Japan> |
This is completely OT but it struck me there's something of a parallel here with the attitudes of the English and Irish. The English press will happily adopt Irish or Scottish teams or athletes if England aren't in the running but not vice versa.
I remember when Michelle Smith 'won' 3 gold medals English reporters got just as excited as if she had been English but she seemed quite distant, as if she was thinking 'thanks for the congratulations but you do know I'm from a totally independent country, don't you?'...Or, could be she was thinking 'this'll be embarrassing if I get caught' I suppose. |
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shapeshifter
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Location: Paris
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:03 am Post subject: |
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You can watch live serie A games on channel 4. Unless you have cable you can't even watch la liga games. |
I believe that Serie A games are actually now on Bravo along with soft porn and 60s horror movies. |
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