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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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 Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Satori wrote: |
Yep, it may be a small portion of fundamentals protesting, but one can take a very reasonable guess that a large number of fundamentals are against it.
And just as a side note, have you noticed how many interesting words are contained in the word "fundamental"?
fun, fund, dam, amen, men, mental...  |
But as long as that large number keeps quiet about it, do you really care? Do you really care what personal beliefs others have so long as to keep it to themselves and don't try to force it on others (which IS what MOST of them are doing).
If you don't then why even make this post? |
Sorry, did I miss the part where I'm only allowed to comment on people's belief's when those people take direct political action?
The very fact that a majority of fundamentalist christians are against this movie is quite a telling comment on the mentality of said christians. And that is worthy of comment, especially when these people ARE indeed actively involved in trying to gain more and more political power in the US. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| 1. Is religion the only or key variable in the rise of the riots, violence and murder? |
Yes, it was the key variable. Some Muslims responded with violence, incitement to murder, murder, rioting and arson to a series of cartoons. FACT.
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| Christians, if in the same boat, would act differently? |
Christians have been in the same boat, and have acted differently. If tomorrow a wave of violent protests engulfs the Christian world, and Christian protesters march through London carrying 'Kill those who insult Jesus' placards, in response to the Da Vinci Code, I will take back what I have said.
There is an obvious and clearly noticeable difference (to all but the most chronically deluded) between the reaction of Christians 'fundies' to that of Muslim 'fundies' when their faith is mocked or insulted.
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| 3. Can you provide clear, historical evidence--across the histories of the two religions that establishes your claims? |
I can provide clear, present day evidence to support my claim that Muslims are far more likely to react to slights against their religion with violence, murder, and general mayhem. I am not particularly concerned with the behaviour of Christians and Muslims hundreds of years ago. I am more concerned about the behaviour of said people now.
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| accepts your premises as having even minimal substance. |
What premises would they be then? Perhaps you would care to demonstrate their 'minimal substance'. |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 4:03 am Post subject: |
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All right, dragonslayer. Let's try this again.
Read your latest post one more time and tell me if you can see how you failed to answer my questions. Or how your logic is completely twatted. This is what I am saying, I am not going to start engaging your statements until there is some semblance of sense among them.
But I will keep pointing out their absurdity until you tighten'em up. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 4:19 am Post subject: |
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I'm afraid that is not how it works. If you state that my logic is 'twatted' it is up to you to say why, not me to prove that it is not. You have not pointed out any absurdity, but have merely demonstrated your inability to recognise what are clearly observable, and perhaps uncomfortable facts.
If you don't want to debate then fine. Keep on deluding yourself and make sure to notify me when there is an outbreak of mass rioting and violence from Christians in response to this film. |
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AbbeFaria
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| AbbeFaria wrote: |
| I disagree. I think that many many fundis (fundementalist christians, for anyone who hadn't picked up on it) seek to enslave me to their bible and/or church, but many of them are too lazy to actually do it. � |
Again, so if they don't do it, what do you care? People are entitled to their beliefs, as long as they don't force it down others throats, right? So if they're too "lazy" that should make you happy.
BTB many "fundis" don't bother "enslaving" anyone. Not because they are lazy but simply believe that if one is going to come to God, s/he will do so on her/his own. Not ALL believe this of course, but many do
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You made my argument for me. Kudos.
It's exactly what I said. Many of them wish they could get the populace under the thumb of their dogma. Only the frothy-mouthed ones are actively pushing. However, there are enough of them to make a difference.
If it weren't for the thin line we still have between seperation of church and state, my megook brothers and sisters would be living in a religious state, Like Prewar-Afghany or Iran. There's not a whole lot of difference in goals for these people. They both want total control for their religion.
Now, for the ones that don't actively push it, then yes, don't care, never said I did. But the conversation wasn't really about them, it was about the ones that do. The ones that want to ban the movies, burn my books and toss my porn in the garbage. And, just incase you've forgotten:
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Not ALL believe this of course, but many do. |
And what did I say again??? Oh yeah, I remember:
| AbbeFaria wrote: |
| I disagree. I think that many many fundis (fundementalist christians, for anyone who hadn't picked up on it) seek to enslave me to their bible and/or church, but many of them are too lazy to actually do it. � |
So there you have it.
�S� |
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The Great Toad
Joined: 12 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 2:26 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by The Great Toad on Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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coolsage
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: The overcast afternoon of the soul
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| Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 3:04 am Post subject: |
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| maggoli wrote: |
I think the problem most Christians have with the book is that it is not so much that it is a scandalous novel but that Brown promotes it as more than fiction. If it were simply fiction, fine. We should not be afraid and take every thought captive. But then he purports that all the documents, secret societies, symbols, etc are factual. I'm not sure that is altogether fair. Ya can't have it both ways. 
Espeically with the coming Easter celebration of Christ's resurrection, this book/movie is a direct attack on orthodox Christianity. Am I shaken? Nope. It does, however, on the basis of late documents and fragmented documents, portray my Lord and saviour as a mere man who apparently married Mary Magdalene. As a Christian, a follower of Christ (and not of some mysterious cabal of "leaders" who "make" me push tracts on the street), this is appalling. It also spends most of its time attacking Roman Catholicism. Now, I'm not a Roman Catholic, and so cannot offer a defense of what Catholics may or may not have done, but I'd be curious as to how they percieve this book. 
I don't mind alternative sources of evidence and knowledge, but he completely misuses and misrepresents these sources. When I studied history back in the real world, post-modernism and its *beep* child of "any history ya wanna make up" was on the front burner. Some Canadian historian had written a novel as reality (it was some kind of biography in the first person based not on real documents and characters as originally claimed...too much beer and hard living between now and then) and there was some controversy as to whether to consider it history, etc. Anyway, ya can't just write anything and call it fact. Obviously, I'm not an expert in the field, or I wouldn't be peddling English here, but I think I can differentiate between good research and not.
As for an earlier post. I haven't heard anything about aberrent Christians making such threats. It really isn't my style...no "fatwahs" are likely to be pronounced as was the case of Salman Rushdie. True Christians are really part of a "religion of peace." Just wait...I hope no bonehead proves me wrong. 
They probably do not expect any success in banning the movie, but it has to be said. I can't deny Christ. No, I'm not actually associated with the people calling for the ban; this is the first I've heard of it, too. But, if someone said something bad and untrue about my mother (or yours, for that matter!), I'd have to do the same. 
Happy Easter!
Dan in Seongnam |
How quickly the Crusades and the Inquisition are forgotten. |
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maggoli
Joined: 21 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 6:31 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, dude! No, I've not forgotten them. I'm just not going to engage in "oh yeah, what about those guys over there..." Might make flotsam yawn some more...and I don't want to lose a potential D&D player/DM...
Sad thing, especially the Albigensian Crusade, which event marked the first use of a crusade in Europe against people who decribed themselves as Christians. Really interesting period. Hard to say what might have happened if they hadn't occurred...probably all be praying to Mecca...and no D&D. The inquisition was a tragedy, as well. "...for man's anger does not bring about the righteousness life that God desires." (James 1:20)
Thought this thread had finished... |
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Len8
Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Location: Kyungju
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| Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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What's a fatwah? Is that some kind of Muslim Voodoo or something?
Intersting part of the book was the reference to "Eyes Wide Shut" and having "holy sex". Wonder if that's gonna be in the movie? |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 9:07 pm Post subject: Missing the point?? |
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Hi everyone. I'm new to the board. Starting a job in July in Seoul, and scanning through getting lots of good information about what to bring, what to leave, what to watch out for. Just taking things in so far, but I couldn't resist (try though I did) adding my take to all the Code Controversy.
I read the book a couple of years ago because people I otherwise respected said it was a breezy, compelling read.
I wasn't appalled by the premise -- but then I'm not a Christer. I was appalled such a piece of hack writing had so captivated what seems to be left of the reading public. Shouldn't a well-written suspense novel have some actual suspensful moments? (Look for the APPLE, you idiots!) What's more unbelievable than the contrarian, doo-doo-stirring theological premise is that these two characters, brilliantly trained specialists in their respective fields, couldn't figure out the really lame puzzles the hack Dan Brown had placed before them.
So, if anyone knows of any demonstrations protesting how badly contrived the whole thing was, or protesting the state of a reading public that laps this drivel up, please let me know. Maybe I'll see some of you there? Please? I'll be the one with a copy of the latest Perez-Reverte book. (Or is it Reverte-Perez? I can never remember, but I do remember that he does write this kind of book - ancient secrets, intrigue, betrayal - in a way that deserves to be called "writing.")
See the movie? Pass. I mean, it can't be anywhere near as good as the book, so there's even less point in it. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 1:03 am Post subject: |
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| AbbeFaria wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| AbbeFaria wrote: |
| I disagree. I think that many many fundis (fundementalist christians, for anyone who hadn't picked up on it) seek to enslave me to their bible and/or church, but many of them are too lazy to actually do it. � |
Again, so if they don't do it, what do you care? People are entitled to their beliefs, as long as they don't force it down others throats, right? So if they're too "lazy" that should make you happy.
BTB many "fundis" don't bother "enslaving" anyone. Not because they are lazy but simply believe that if one is going to come to God, s/he will do so on her/his own. Not ALL believe this of course, but many do
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(1) You made my argument for me. Kudos.
(2) It's exactly what I said. Many of them wish they could get the populace under the thumb of their dogma. Only the frothy-mouthed ones are actively pushing. However, there are enough of them to make a difference.
If it weren't for the thin line we still have between seperation of church and state, my megook brothers and sisters would be living in a religious state, Like Prewar-Afghany or Iran. There's not a whole lot of difference in goals for these people. They both want total control for their religion.
(3) Now, for the ones that don't actively push it, then yes, don't care, never said I did.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Not ALL believe this of course, but many do. |
(4) And what did I say again??? Oh yeah, I remember:
| AbbeFaria wrote: |
| I disagree. I think that many many fundis (fundementalist christians, for anyone who hadn't picked up on it) seek to enslave me to their bible and/or church, but many of them are too lazy to actually do it. � |
So there you have it.
�S� |
(numbers are mine)
1. What? I think you have misread my post (more on that later)
2. "Many of them wish.." Never said that. I was talking about the ones who don't bother trying to convert others since it is their belief that this person will come to God on his/her own.
3. Okay, just so we are both clear on this point.
4. I think you misunderstood that quote. When I said "Not ALL believe this of course, but many do". I was talking about the belief that people will come to God on their own. Not about anything else. |
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patchy
Joined: 26 Apr 2005
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