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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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 Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:47 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
Look, I'm sure you are a smart dude, but I will push you on this for pages. Immigration will not solve the looming fiscal issues, unless you only import 30 - 55 year old men with professional degrees and no plans to have kids and deport them when they want to retire. |
Well, that is indeed what we're doing in terms of Canadian immigration. Babies indeed need their share of the tax revenue, however, they also need shoes, food, and a thousand other things produced by private industry. And that drives increased tax revenues and GDP growth. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:54 am Post subject: |
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We are talking about government deficits, and to a much lesser extent private industry deficits. You have to look at NET gain/loss, or net contribution/consumption.
You do not understand the problem. It is not consumption that will bridge the gap but savings. And having children lessens savings. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| I use the definition of multiculturalism that was bashed into my head by the multiculturalists at my uni. |
But we all went to the same universities. Why didn't we come out with the definition you say was 'bashed into' your head? It seems more likely that you misinterpreted your profs.
What kind of straw man are we constructing and how does it differ from what 'policy makers/academics/journalists are using'? |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:11 am Post subject: |
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| Nono. I said that I accepted my wrong and now I want you to accept the err of our immigration policy from two points. Brain drain and a misplaced assumption that this policy will fix our future crunch. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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OK.
Well, I'm not convinced of either of your points.
1) Brain drain.
I see this as having two good points.
Third World countries train and educate more highly skilled workers than they can provide jobs for at home. Draining some of them off helps prevent them staying at home underemployed/unemployed and being a potential source of disruption. (That could also be bad at the same time--many of those regimes need to be changed.)
Allowing them to immigrate benefits other countries because of the contributions they make. Who is that guy from Russia who co-founded Google? Just one example out of the thousands and thousands and thousands who are making significant advances in many different fields. Why waste that talent by leaving them to shuffle paper at some 3rd World gov't office?
You advocate just exploiting them and then sending them home. I don't see it that way. Give them citizenship if they want it. Their contributions merit citizenship.
2. The Future Crunch
I don't believe immigration alone will solve the crunch coming when the Baby Boomers retire, but it is a partial solution. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
We are talking about government deficits, and to a much lesser extent private industry deficits. You have to look at NET gain/loss, or net contribution/consumption.
You do not understand the problem. It is not consumption that will bridge the gap but savings. And having children lessens savings. |
I understand that new generations pay for the benefits we give to the old. If we don't have sufficient numbers below, we can't pay for the benefits of those at the top. If Canadians are not having those babies, we have to import them. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| People made a point that John Diefenbaker had a German surname and some lampooned him as a result of it. That has faded somewhat. Visible minorities are new to Canada and reacting to them pyshcologically on a massive scale is relatively new for Canadians. |
150 years ago, Irish immigrants to New York, Boston, Chicago, etc. were little better than dogs ("No dogs or Irishmen"). Irish Americans are pretty much the backbone of the North East establishment these days. A Chicago Irish cop is about as American as you can get. |
There was once a huge gap between Protestants and Catholics that is not so much of a problem except among the radical Evangelicals and some staunch Catholics. Assimilating a new addition to your country has always been a challenge. I do however think that it is easier to integrate people from countries better than others. It is probably easier to integrate someone from Russia or even Uzbekistan than religious Pakistan. I don't think BJWD is really opposed to Russian, Ukrainian, and Irish immigrants. He is concerned with some of the ones from the Middle East and maybe other parts of Asia. I am not sure. He can clarify that.
I understand the concern. I don't think there are quotas when it comes to immigration. Should there be? Should certain countries get preferential treatment. |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:17 am Post subject: |
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I think the solution for Canada's problems in this regard is to strengthen anti-American education.
Start young, in kindergarten, get everyone on the same page at a young age. That way, when any issue between 2 Canadians arises, they can head to the nearest bar or Starbucks and make a toast proclaiming how lucky they are to NOT be an American.
Peace will be ensured for generations to come. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| I see the new year has not brought you a new brain. |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:52 am Post subject: |
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| and you deny that being not-America isn't one of the major glues holding Canada together? |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| sundubuman wrote: |
| and you deny that being not-America isn't one of the major glues holding Canada together? |
What does this topic have to do with immigration in Canada? What are you putting in your pipe? In different ways, countries in the Western Hemisphere seek to fend off the strong influence of the United States. It is felt all over the Americas. Go and travel and ask the people whether they speak Portuguese, Spanish, English, or French. The problem is you can't understand why. You forget that were was a war fought between the two sides, intervention in elections etc... So you think Canadians should simply be oblivious to the existence of their southern neighbour regardless of the good and bad influences coming from there. That doesn't seem logical, I am afraid. |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| sundubuman wrote: |
| and you deny that being not-America isn't one of the major glues holding Canada together? |
In different ways, countries in the Western Hemisphere seek to fend off the strong influence of the United States. It is felt all over the Americas. Go and travel and ask the people whether they speak Portuguese, Spanish, English, or French. The problem is you can't understand why. . |
Umm... fend off all you will. Your post just proves my assertion...
Continue to strengthen your anti-Americanism and all will be well in Canada. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| sundubuman wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| sundubuman wrote: |
| and you deny that being not-America isn't one of the major glues holding Canada together? |
In different ways, countries in the Western Hemisphere seek to fend off the strong influence of the United States. It is felt all over the Americas. Go and travel and ask the people whether they speak Portuguese, Spanish, English, or French. The problem is you can't understand why. . |
Umm... fend off all you will. Your post just proves my assertion...
Continue to strengthen your anti-Americanism and all will be well in Canada. |
You don't get it do you. People all over the world want to protect their cultures whether they are in Korea, France, or Canada. That is why you have Korean content laws and Canadian content laws. You feel that
America should have a right to engage in cultural dumping and the others object. Why is your opinion right? Fending off can include protecting your own culture. The United States exports culture, weapons, sometimes new governments and some people think many things coming from America are great but they don't want to be inundated by things American. That is normal. Does America want to be inundated with illegal immigration?
As far as the image of the U.S., that has suffered under George W. Bush for bullying allies. Also, the support of the coup d'etat against strong man Chavez in Venezuela, as bad as he was, is not a way to make neighbours feel better. And having the U.S. ambassador lecture Canadians for opposing going to Iraq, which most Americans oppose in hindsight, shows that you seem to not care why people perceive certain things and you want them to perceive things in another way without providing the seeds and soil for a much better perception of a country that has many great things going for it. When people like Clinton are president, people think of how great America is and the presidency had more manners towards other countries. This government really went on the attack against half of America and many countries. There is a problem with image not only outside but also inside. Don't put what I say in larger print. And if you can't discuss like an adult, then don't.
God Bless the good people of America and Canada... and down with dirty politics |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:17 am Post subject: |
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this thread is about Canada.....
so long live Canadian content....fend off the Americans....
fend them off I say!!!!! |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:04 am Post subject: |
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Look out kids!
He's raging against the machine!
Go nationalist avenger! Go! |
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