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flummuxt
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:56 am Post subject: |
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OK, here is what I found for BMW:
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BMW Maintenance
When are you due for maintenance?
The two factors that determine the appropriate maintenance service due for your vehicle are time and/or your service indicator. Time is the default but is secondary to your service indicator. In other words, if your service indicator is not requesting a maintenance service but it has been one year since your last maintenance service you should schedule a Low Mileage Oil Service based on time. If your service indicator is requesting a maintenance service, regardless of the time interval, you should schedule your maintenance service based on you service indicator. There are two forms of service indicators on BMWs. Both appear momentarily during vehicle startup on the instrument cluster. The first is a series of five green bars followed by one yellow bar and one red bar. If your vehicle has this type of indicator, service should be scheduled when you are down to the yellow bar. The second type of indicator is a numerical count down to your next required service. If your vehicle has this type of indicator service should be scheduled when you are down to 100 miles.
Indicator Based Service (Approximate Mileage Intervals: 1999 and Older 10,000 miles, 2000 and Newer 15,000 miles)
1st Service - Engine Oil Service
2nd Service - Inspection I
3rd Service - Engine Oil Service
4th Service - Inspection II |
http://www.motorwerksbmw.com/BMW-Maintenance.aspx
Here is what Hyundai has to say on its website:
http://www.hyundaiusa.com/owners/myhyundai/login.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fowners%2fservice%2fmaintenance%2fmaintenance_accent.aspx
In other words, the service schedule is secret, until you are initiated as an official owner.
So chalk one up for Macs.
I think.
I'm not quite sure what the deal is with "time" versus "service indicator." It sounds like the car will tell you when it wants to be serviced, and you should just do what it says.
On the other hand, the chart seems to suggest only getting your oil changed every 30,000 miles.
Let's see, how many privates would I have to teach a week to buy a BMW? |
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ARTCC
Joined: 26 Dec 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:30 am Post subject: getting back to the point |
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OK - forgetting about the whole PC vs Mac can of worms, and to get back to something that might be useful to the OP, if anyone is still interested in the point ...
because remember, the OP has decided he/she wants a Mac. you can either sit here and insult his or her choice, which is what all the Windows fanboys who the post wasn't even directed at seem to want to do, or you can offer something productive.
To the OP - if you are new to a Mac, here is what you should be aware of. If you like Korean websites, most of them will not work on a Mac. Most of them don't even work on Windows if you are using one of the alternative browser choices, such as Firefox or whatever. So if you like to look at the bus map, or search on Naver, etc ... you need to buy or steal a copy of XP and some software that allows you to run a virtual machine on your Mac.
The new Macs have Intel processors, meaning that their guts are the same as a PCs. That means that, for the first time, Macs can run Windows as fast as a PC. Now, 99% of the time you are not going to give a rat's ass about how fast your Mac can run windows, but when you want to look at the interactive bus map or something like that, you might appreciate the speed.
So like I said, guts are now the same - the only difference is the OS, which contrary to what some of the other posters have said, makes all the difference, because this OS allows you to run more world-class, industry standard software, not less - for example, Final Cut, which is used all through the film and TV industry, does not run in Windows. iMovie, which technically is not part of the OS but comes bundled with it when you buy the computer, is the free video editing software made by Apple, and actually has been used to cut at least one feature length film that made it to Sundance (google: tarnation film) - has anyone done that with Windows Movie Maker? I think not ... but do correct me if I'm wrong, Windows fanboys.
OK - to curtail this before it turns into a rant - my two recommendations are first, get some kind of virtualization software and XP, because in Korea, you don't want to be totally cut off from Windows.
Second - don't buy a cheap one. If your needs are demanding at all, buy a pro-level machine. Apple has survived for as long as they have by aiming squarely at the pro market. Go to any design house, TV studio, recording studio - even in Korea - and you will see where Apple's 5% of the market comes from. These are not Kool-Aid drinkers or fanboys - these are pros who need machines that they can depend on, and by and large, they choose Apple. Now, lately, riding the buzz of the ipod, etc ... Apple has started to expand their market share (they now have 20% of the notebook market in the U.S., by the way) by aiming at the regular consumer -- with the ibook, macbook, etc. Unless your computing needs are really light, don't buy one of these machines. I recently upgraded to a high-end, last of its generation Powerbook G4 that is about 2 years old - and it cost me about the same as a brand-new low end Macbook would have, but for my money, it was a much better value. If you can afford it, the Macbook Pro will give you much more power and be a viable machine for much longer. If you buy used though, try to get something that is still covered under the AppleCare extended warranty, just for your own safety.
good luck and enjoy! |
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Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: getting back to the point |
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| ARTCC wrote: |
OK - forgetting about the whole PC vs Mac can of worms, and to get back to something that might be useful to the OP, if anyone is still interested in the point ...
because remember, the OP has decided he/she wants a Mac. you can either sit here and insult his or her choice, which is what all the Windows fanboys who the post wasn't even directed at seem to want to do, or you can offer something productive. |
Hey...you are insulting our choice!
| ARTCC wrote: |
| To the OP - if you are new to a Mac, here is what you should be aware of. If you like Korean websites, most of them will not work on a Mac. Most of them don't even work on Windows if you are using one of the alternative browser choices, such as Firefox or whatever. So if you like to look at the bus map, or search on Naver, etc ... you need to buy or steal a copy of XP and some software that allows you to run a virtual machine on your Mac. |
Well, that's useful. Luckily, Windows comes with IE.
| ARTCC wrote: |
The new Macs have Intel processors, meaning that their guts are the same as a PCs. That means that, for the first time, Macs can run Windows as fast as a PC. Now, 99% of the time you are not going to give a rat's ass about how fast your Mac can run windows, but when you want to look at the interactive bus map or something like that, you might appreciate the speed.
So like I said, guts are now the same - the only difference is the OS, which contrary to what some of the other posters have said, makes all the difference, because this OS allows you to run more world-class, industry standard software, not less - for example, Final Cut, which is used all through the film and TV industry, does not run in Windows. iMovie, which technically is not part of the OS but comes bundled with it when you buy the computer, is the free video editing software made by Apple, and actually has been used to cut at least one feature length film that made it to Sundance (google: tarnation film) - has anyone done that with Windows Movie Maker? I think not ... but do correct me if I'm wrong, Windows fanboys. |
Wow. So, Mac is aimed at a professional video editing market and it works in that area?! Shocking...and good for Mac, eh? Can't recall Windows flogging Movie Maker as a selling point...more of a home user convenience. So, what you are saying here is that one should buy a Mac to run Windows? Hmmm....why would someone do that? They could put together a system that will kick a Mac all over the place for far less. This is the Kool aid speaking folks.
Buy a Mac (expensive) to run Windows so you can still have access to the two or three professional video editing softwares, but without the severe limitations of a Mac. Sounds reasonable. Who would want to lose out on the chance of a lifetime?
| ARTCC wrote: |
| OK - to curtail this before it turns into a rant |
Too late.
| ARTCC wrote: |
| - my two recommendations are first, get some kind of virtualization software and XP, because in Korea, you don't want to be totally cut off from Windows. |
Nor anywhere else in the world. Again, get a Mac to run Windows...sounds really stupid.
| ARTCC wrote: |
| Second - don't buy a cheap one. |
Cheap Mac. 
| ARTCC wrote: |
| If your needs are demanding at all, buy a pro-level machine. Apple has survived for as long as they have by aiming squarely at the pro market. Go to any design house, TV studio, recording studio - even in Korea - and you will see where Apple's 5% of the market comes from. These are not Kool-Aid drinkers or fanboys - these are pros who need machines that they can depend on, and by and large, they choose Apple. |
Keep arguing from that 5% soapbox...the OP sure sounded like a professional video/sound editor to me too.
| ARTCC wrote: |
| Now, lately, riding the buzz of the ipod, etc |
Here it is...the savior cometh. Without these products, Mac would be dead. Do you know why they went Intel? Think imoney.
| ARTCC wrote: |
AppleCare extended warranty, just for your own safety.
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AppleCare. Heh...legendary.
Good luck alright.
This is the problem with fanboys on both sides of the debate....they are blind in their unpaid support. I use Windows, but know the limitations. I have used Mac and know the limitations. Mac is now essentially an OS. That, and cool-colored accessories. Being an OS is good...it allows a more apples-to-apples (har!) comparison..something I won't bother doing for the Nth time on the internet. |
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Sincinnatislink
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Location: Top secret.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| btw, the interactive subway map works just fine in camino on mac. |
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rocklee
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| Henry VII wrote: |
The difference I find most striking is that I don't have to take care of my Mac. It's like the difference between a BMW and a Hyundai. You have to get an oil change every 3,000 miles on the Hyundai - but the BMW can last 15,000 miles before you need one. On my Mac, I don't have to run any anti-spyware programs like Adaware and I don't need another worthless copy of Norton or McAfee or whatever bogging down my resources.
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You do know the engine capacity on a Hyundai is different to a BMW? Intervals for oil changes vary between models, engine sizes and how power is produced (forced inducted?). Given the same size and engine capacity, the Hyundai would be far cheaper to change oil than the BMW since both require different grades and quantity of oil.
In addition, the upkeep of a Hyundai is far cheaper than a BMW, so is insurance, tires, fuel consumption, general maintenance etc. One doesn't have to worry too much if something happens to the Hyundai. Fixing a BMW in case something goes wrong is like buying another car sometimes.
Oh you do know that there are anti-virus software and malware for Macs right? |
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rocklee
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:20 am Post subject: |
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One thing I've noticed is that the smarter users are able to gain the most for the least. Here are some examples :
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| The new Macs have Intel processors, meaning that their guts are the same as a PCs. |
Not true, PCs can be upgraded easily whereas Macs can't.
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| That means that, for the first time, Macs can run Windows as fast as a PC. |
Also not true, PCs can be overclocked with the exact same specs (AMD users have been doing it for years) whereas Macs can't.
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| Apple has survived for as long as they have by aiming squarely at the pro market. |
Not true, Apple tried to survive on Jobs' revival of the iMac (even with iDSoftware-makers of Quake) but failed miserably and was only saved by the iPods. In short, Apple couldn't sell computers to save its life.
Also, a lot of professionals have already migrated to PCs because they were faster and cheaper and easier to upgrade.
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If you can afford it, the Macbook Pro will give you much more power and be a viable machine for much longer.
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I bought one and my verdict is....no.
Sorry. |
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xenok
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:37 am Post subject: |
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i'm not jumping into the PC vs Mac debate, i refuse to participate in religious wars on internet forums, but i will make a comment about engine oil.
the difference is not the car manufacturer but the type of oil you use. if you use synthetic oil, you should be able to go 10 to 15,000 miles without a change, this applies even if you drive a Hyundai. with regular oil, it doesn't matter whether you drive a BMW or a Hyundai, if you drive 15,000 miles without an oil change you're asking for a blown engine. |
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SeoulFinn
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Location: 1h from Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 2:05 am Post subject: |
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Oh, dear god... 
How come some of the most helpful members of the ESL Cafe became suddenly so aggressive? And all this because of puter brands? PC vs. Mac fights are as stupid as fights over which religion is the best. Well, in my opinion fights over religions are even more stupid, but...
Your -and you guys know who you are- insights and opinions matter to me. I'm sure that other board members not as tech savvy as I am, appreciate them even more than I do. Please try not to burst a vein and start flaming all over nothing. Besides, anyone who wants to read outright childish and idiotic messages can easily find them from the other forums of this site.
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If someone still remembers, I ordered and received Dell XPS M1330 some time ago. After it died on me after 3 weeks of normal use (I finally got my $$ back!) I placed an order for a new 15" MBP last night. It'll be my first Mac.
I'm writing this on my GF's Powerbook G4. Since the OS is the same in PB and MBP, I'm sure that I'll get used to it soon. I intend to do my work related stuff in OS X and play games in Windows after I install Boot Camp. My main reasons for ordering MBP are curiosity and hopefully reliability. I just wanted to try something new. Hopefully the new machine will work for the next 3 to 4 years before I'll replace it with something else. |
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flummuxt
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 2:26 am Post subject: |
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xenok sayeth:
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| i refuse to participate in religious wars on internet forums |
A most perceptive comment.
You are also correct on the matter of engine oil, synthetic vs. regular. You can also put a quart of synthetic in with your regular oil for better protection toward the end of the cycle and better starting. Synthetic also has the potential for far superior starting in cold weather, depending on the grade.
Many people already know this. But here's something they might not know. When you buy a new car, change the oil after 500 to 1,000 miles. Oh, and DO NOT use synthetic on that first cycle. You need the rings to seat, which requires some wear. Synthetic is too darn good and reduces wear. But you want to clean out the bits of engine metal that are produced during that break in stage -- that's what you achieve when you change the oil early the first time. If you just leave it in, the bits of metal will produce premature wear.
I have been told that doing that first early change is the best thing you can do to extend the life of your engine. I probably wouldn't put synthetic in on that first change, either; probably still some break-in to do. But the second change, if you want, go for it.
I don't think going 15,000 miles between oil changes would cause a blown engine. It kind of depends. If you are burning oil, and your oil levels fall, then yes. Running an engine without oil or coolant is a very, very, very, very bad idea, if you know what I mean. Another thing not changing oil can do is cause sludge build up, especially in the pan at the bottom of the engine. This could eventually block the flow of oil, but I think it would take more miles.
I knew someone, an incredibly attractive but not very car savy woman, who never changed the oil on her Isuzu trooper and it did just that. She was very surprised. It was very expensive.
I have used that quart of engine cleaner right before an oil change, and you wouldn't believe what comes out. Often on the second oil change, too. It is sludge just sitting at the bottom of the crankcase. You can also put a quart of diesel in, instead, if you prefer.
As to Macs, I really don't care what religion computer users follow, as long as they don't try to lord it over me, especially when they are my goddamm boss. Using a Mac does not, per se, make them smarter, and me using a PC stupider. Heck, the way they tell it, using a PC is too damn complicated, so it would seem that would make me smarter, since I have some rudimentary knowledge of how to use one.
It helps, of course, that Microsoft hasn't changed the interface a whole lot since Windows 98, and actually Windows 95 v4, provided you keep changing it to the classic mode when they come out with a new, jazzier OS. So after about 10 years, I should hope I have the hang of it. Plus knowing DOS, but that's another story.
I really did use the very first Mac. Without an instruction manual. And I used DOS 3.3. With DOS for Dummies, etc. Yes, the Mac was superior. And it was fun to use. But IT ISN'T THE 1980s ANYMORE!
The first Mac was designed to sell for under $1,000. Instead, they decided to jack up the price to $2,500. So they wound up with warehouses full of unsold Macs.
At $999 for a Mac, NOBODY in their right mind would have bought a $3,000 PC back in 1984.
Apple blew it, and they continue to blow it by overcharging. They had plenty of chances to pick up market share, but they keep on following a creed of greed. I guess it gives Macs and other Apple products cachet. Well, I don't give a GD about cachet. I do not worship computers, operating systems, computer CEOs, MP3 players, cell phones, or any other electronic device.
If there's anything in this world, of this world, worth worshiping, it is Scotch. Especially Scotch on the rocks. Unfortunately, Korea is a damm expensively place to practice this religion. But if you shop carefully, there are some reasonably good deals. 700 ml of Passport is reasonably priced at Lotte. The oddest thing is that Chivas, a high priced Scotch in the States, is relatively cheap here. Haven't figured that one out yet. Johnnie Walker Red is a relative bargain, too.
For the premium you have to pay for a Mac, and don't delude yourself into thinking they cost the same as a PC, you can buy some pretty good Scotch. Now that's a damm good reason to buy a PC, if you ask me.
Oh, and Dimple makes a rather nice Scotch for the price, too. And a real nice bottle. |
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flummuxt
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 2:36 am Post subject: |
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SeoulFinn complained:
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Oh, dear god... Rolling Eyes
How come some of the most helpful members of the ESL Cafe became suddenly so aggressive? And all this because of puter brands? PC vs. Mac fights are as stupid as fights over which religion is the best. Well, in my opinion fights over religions are even more stupid, but...
Your -and you guys know who you are- insights and opinions matter to me. I'm sure that other board members not as tech savvy as I am, appreciate them even more than I do. Please try not to burst a vein and start flaming all over nothing. Besides, anyone who wants to read outright childish and idiotic messages can easily find them from the other forums of this site.
-----
If someone still remembers, I ordered and received Dell XPS M1330 some time ago. After it died on me after 3 weeks of normal use (I finally got my $$ back!) I placed an order for a new 15" MBP last night. It'll be my first Mac.
I'm writing this on my GF's Powerbook G4. Since the OS is the same in PB and MBP, I'm sure that I'll get used to it soon. I intend to do my work related stuff in OS X and play games in Windows after I install Boot Camp. My main reasons for ordering MBP are curiosity and hopefully reliability. I just wanted to try something new. Hopefully the new machine will work for the next 3 to 4 years before I'll replace it with something else. |
I sympathize, up to a point.
Most of the time, us PC users just sit quietly by while Mac users laud their wisdom to each other. But now and then, as in now, we have the right to speak up and point out the truth, as we see it.
Hey, if you like your Mac, congratulations! But just because your Dell died, you should not blame Microsoft. It's a free market, a free world, and I, for one, like to be able to choose who makes my computer. If Steve Jobs had his way, I wouldn't have that right. This is not a joke.
I bought a Toshiba XP laptop in 2001 for $500. It still works fine. It is six years old. I bought an Acer for $600 earlier this year running Vista cause I wanted to bring a new laptop with me to Korea that has a DVD writer. It works fine, too. I'm writing this on my Acer whatchamacalit with dual core something Mhz cpu and nice bright widescreen laptop. It won't win me any admiring girlfriends for the nameplate, but I don't usually take my laptop with me to bars to meet girls.
How much did you spend on your Mac?
I am drinking Scotch right now. Not soju.
Any questions? |
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SeoulFinn
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Location: 1h from Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:25 am Post subject: |
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My new toy hasn't arrived yet, so I really can't tell if I enjoy it or not. But thanks anyway!
As for my experience with Dell, I'm not blaming anyone and MS at the least. I had a really bad luck with Dell, but it was a production issue that didn't have anything to do with MS, Windows etc. I just got a lemon and that's it. And don't worry, I'm not shoveling "Mac gospel" down to anyone's throat.
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| How much did you spend on your Mac? |
I'm now in Finland, the land of super cool 22% VAT and inflated prices. After special discount the price came down to EUR 2 200 (~ USD 3100). I know, I know. The USD amount is really high because of the EUR-USD exchange rate. Especially when the same unit in US is "only" USD 2499. *Sigh* Heck, this unit is cheaper even in Korea without any discounts! *Sigh* But these things bother only the poor, right?  |
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flummuxt
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| Hottdamm. If I were in Finland, I sure as heck wouldn't be spending my time with a laptop. Not even a Mac. |
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rocklee
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| SeoulFinn wrote: |
Oh, dear god...
How come some of the most helpful members of the ESL Cafe became suddenly so aggressive? And all this because of puter brands? PC vs. Mac fights are as stupid as fights over which religion is the best. Well, in my opinion fights over religions are even more stupid, but...
Your -and you guys know who you are- insights and opinions matter to me. I'm sure that other board members not as tech savvy as I am, appreciate them even more than I do. Please try not to burst a vein and start flaming all over nothing. Besides, anyone who wants to read outright childish and idiotic messages can easily find them from the other forums of this site.
-----
If someone still remembers, I ordered and received Dell XPS M1330 some time ago. After it died on me after 3 weeks of normal use (I finally got my $$ back!) I placed an order for a new 15" MBP last night. It'll be my first Mac.
I'm writing this on my GF's Powerbook G4. Since the OS is the same in PB and MBP, I'm sure that I'll get used to it soon. I intend to do my work related stuff in OS X and play games in Windows after I install Boot Camp. My main reasons for ordering MBP are curiosity and hopefully reliability. I just wanted to try something new. Hopefully the new machine will work for the next 3 to 4 years before I'll replace it with something else. |
That's strange, I remember you placing an order for an M1330, the same notebook that I'm getting, and no news since then. And now you're getting a MB despite this problem :
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We have older G4 Powerbook and it's giving us shock treatment as well. *Zap!* And that's not the only problem with our Mac. The lower memory slot is dead. Apple is aware of this memory problem, but won't fix our model - they fix other models even though their warranty has expired, but not the model we have. Way to go Apple! |
Sounds like a whole lot of BS to me. |
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SeoulFinn
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Location: 1h from Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:01 am Post subject: |
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Rocklee, I'm flattered that you remembered my post about the M1330. What can I say? It was a nice unit as long as it worked. If it hadn't died on me I'd still be happily using it. I liked the form, weight and the raw power M1330 had. Especially after my old Acer Ferrari. Unfortunately for me, Dell Korea couldn't replace the unit in time and I had to demand a full refund before returning back to Finland.
The reason I didn't post about my experiences and difficulties with M1330 on this forum, is that I thought www.notebookreview.com is more appropriate place for them. Well, actually I did post onc related post here but it was about Intel Turbo Memory, which I had to order directly from LG. Anyway, I'm sure that you'll like your unit when you finally get it.
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| [...]And now you're getting a MB despite this problem[...] |
Yes, this PB is old and has taken a lot of abuse from my GF during the years. I'm sure that any system that'd have taken the same amount of punishment would probably be in worse condition by now. I ordered MBP for myself and will treat it as well as I'd any PC based system. By the way, the shock treatment was caused by one of my GF's cats. The culprit likes to chew power cords(?) and has already destroyed mouse, headset (2), speakers, router (2) etc. Since I'm now in Finland and out of cat's gnashing teeth, I'm positive that my new unit won't electrocute me in the near future.
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| Sounds like a whole lot of BS to me. |
What does? |
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the eye
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:38 am Post subject: |
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| flummuxt wrote: |
SuperHero:
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| I'm not about to drink the Mac Kool aid. |
That's a good way of putting it. Owning a Mac is like joining a cult. |
What a load of crap. |
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