Korean Job Discussion Forums

schwa · Joined: 18 Jan 2003 Location: Yap

Never never follows the verb it governs.

My best guess anyway. But outside this debate isnt it? We're talking 2nd language learners & who best can help them get on with talking.

Skarp · Joined: 22 Aug 2003

This debate is a bit long already - but to answer the title.

Hardly. In my experience English 'majors' are not better qualified for anything....

But then again - as a Maths graduate neither am I.

Having a degree is simply a requirement to teach in Korea - not any kind of qualification.

I meet many people who have a better personality than me for teaching - especially for working with kids. And anybody having taken some training in TEFL (and applied it!) is better than anybody who has not.

Experience of studying a foreign language (especially as an adult and without much use of your 1st langauge) to a fairly high level is also good.

UK degrees are a waste of time, money and effort. US degrees are even more general and 'easier' I have heard. The experience of being away from home and maturing a bit is positive though.

Embarassingly - my University degrees keep opening doors for me, even though I can hardly remember what I studied sometimes and was a terrible student. Thanks to Mum and Dad for making me go and helping to pay for it all.

Oauf - what a long tedious post....

Skarp

kiwiboy_nz_99 · Joined: 05 Jul 2003 Location: ...Enlightenment...

Mankind

kiwiboy_nz_99 · Joined: 05 Jul 2003 Location: ...Enlightenment...

Mankind · Joined: 18 Jan 2003

Mr. Kalgukshi · Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 2:29 pm Post subject: Thoughts

Harpeau wrote:"I'm very happy that Mr. Kalgukshi began this discussion. It's something that I've wondered about for a long time. In many universities in Korea they state a preference for English Majors in their advertising and I always wondered why that was. Many have looked at me with disdain for simply asking the question, as if... "What are you dumb or something? Everyone knows English majors rock!"

Well, I can only speak for myself when I say that if I were to interview for my uni, I would (depending on the course) receive all resumes who had at least a B.A. or higher and meet with many in an interview settin and make judgements according to various criteria including: education, experience, time abroad, ability to work on a team, a love for the student, teaching skill, references, character, originality, curiosity, creativity, publishing history, etc."

Mr. Kalgukshi now writes: I am involved in the hiring of teachers. I am also in complete agreement with what Harpeau wrote above. I see no reason to exclude from consideration those without a particular major. I see no reason to consider only those with a particular major. The factors described by Harpeau are the ones I look at when hiring someone. In all honesty, I could care less what one's major was.

The practice found in Korea and elsewhere of according preference to English majors for ESL teaching positions is based on a myth. The myth is that majoring in English always preapres one better to be an ESL teacher. It may or it may not do this on a selective basis, but it surely does not do it universally. Regardless of the major, it all comes down to the individual teacher's ability to perform in the classroom.

We only shortchange our students when we do not provide them with the best teachers possible. We can't do this when we close our minds to the idea someone can actually teach ESL competently and professionally without having majored in English. This is exactly what schools in Korea do when they restrict their teacher recruitment to a particular major based on a misinformed appreciation of what an ESL teacher does.

Once again, I have no particular dislike of English majors. I do have a dislike of schools which operate on the basis of myth and deprive their students of the best teachers possible. And, yes, I have hired many English majors. I have also hired many teachers with other majors. Some of the best teachers were found in both groups. Not just one group.

The extraordinary interest shown in this thread is refreshing and gratifying. Thanks, one and all, for your constructive participation. I anticipate and hope for more.

iiicalypso · Joined: 13 Aug 2003 Location: is everything

We only shortchange our students when we do not provide them with the best teachers possible. We can't do this when we close our minds to the idea someone can actually teach ESL competently and professionally without having majored in English. This is exactly what schools in Korea do when they restrict their teacher recruitment to a particular major based on a misinformed appreciation of what an ESL teacher does.

I agree with Mr. K. here-- I am all about thinking creatively. However, if you want to look at what shortchanges students I think a greater factor to look at is money. If you want professional educators you have to pay for professional educators. I know that there are a good many trained, dedicated teachers here in Korea, but there are also a number of recent graduates here either avoiding a "real" job back home or just trying out the experience.

I came here with a lot of trepidation, but after having to look for a new teaching job three consecutive years due to layoffs I thought I would give this a try. The pay here is far less than I was making, the security is virtually nil, and I have to live a completely different lifestyle. I am loving it here, but as long as ESL jobs are going to be advertised by the benefits (free airfare, free apartment) rather than the benefits of the job (teacher training, mentoring program) the industry is going to attract a large number of unqualified teachers, be they English majors or Physics majors.

Sorry if I got off topic a bit.

Harpeau · Joined: 01 Feb 2003 Location: Coquitlam, BC

You can tell a lot about a manager by the staff they hire. I have a feeling that Mr. K. will be able o gather a pretty good team around himself. all the best to you!
Cheers!
Harpeau

kiwiboy_nz_99 · Joined: 05 Jul 2003 Location: ...Enlightenment...

Mr. Pink · Joined: 21 Oct 2003 Location: China

iiicalypso · Joined: 13 Aug 2003 Location: is everything

VanIslander · Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 3:23 am Post subject:

English majors have better language skills on average than those from faculties of business or science. Verbal scores on the G.R.E. test are unequivocal on that point.

And just think: in your undergraduate days, who were paying Humanities majors to write their essays? Business and science majors who couldn't put a paragraph together properly without needing a bunch of misplaced modifiers and dangling participles to hang on to.

I wasn't an English major in university, but I took enough courses in it and other Humanities to know there clearly IS a difference in language skills between them and technical training degrees.

I don't believe an English grad would make the basic mistake made by an EFL teacher I met in Changwon last month. She spoke of helping the students with their "pronounciation". She mispronounced the word in saying "proNOUNciation". The mistake was obvious. So I casually asked her, by the way, How do you spell the word? With a sense of authority she said "p-r-o-n-o-u-n-c-i-a-t-i-o-n". Later in the conversation she said her major had been Marketing.

If an EFL teacher mispronounces "pronunciation", then how many other words will be misunderstood? I'd bet that English majors commit less such errors, on average, than other majors.

Thus, I'd prefer hiring an English grad, all other facts being equal.

****The problem is: all other factors are rarely if ever equal, and it's those other factors that'll have a greater influence on the quality of the EFL teacher.****

As others have already mentioned, other factors are more important, everything from TEFL certification, to work ethic to basic orientation. The EFL teacher I met last month has a sense of humour and kind personality, traits she could use to build a rapport with students, that more than compensates for occasional mistakes.

So, whether someone has an English degree may be a rational factor in shortlisting applicants, but it wouldn't be THE reason an EFL teacher was hired.

(Unfortunately, on one side of the issue there's a bit of snobbery and on the other side of it jealousy.)

That's my take.

kiwiboy_nz_99 · Joined: 05 Jul 2003 Location: ...Enlightenment...

Mr. Kalgukshi · Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 1:57 pm Post subject: Could You?

VanIslander wrote:

"English majors have better language skills on average than those from faculties of business or science. Verbal scores on the G.R.E. test are unequivocal on that point."

Mr. Kalgukshi now writes: I'd be interested in reviewing the stats you mentioned. I'd especially like to look at the scores of foreign language, journalism and social science majors in comparison to English majors and others. Are you able to direct me to the source of the stats you were citing? Thanks.