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Beijing Olympics 2008
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nautilus

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:15 am Post subject:

What seems obvious is that sporting prowess follows economic growth. After Russia's economic collapse, no more medals: 60 years of relentless Korean economic growth= suddenly lots of Olympic medals. Africa probably has the most naturally athletic and physically superior people in the world. But being mired in poverty they cannot realise their potential on the world stage.

JMO

Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:26 am Post subject:

nautilus wrote:

Africa probably has the most naturally athletic and physically superior people in the world. But being mired in poverty they cannot realise their potential on the world stage.

What's your basis for this statement? Not an attack, just wondering...

Barqs

Joined: 31 Jan 2006

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:38 am Post subject: watching

someone asked it early in the thread but no one answered is there any good websites to watch live events or even after the fact basketball or baseball games thanks

nautilus

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:16 am Post subject:

JMO wrote:

nautilus wrote:

Africa probably has the most naturally athletic and physically superior people in the world. But being mired in poverty they cannot realise their potential on the world stage.

What's your basis for this statement? Not an attack, just wondering...

isn't it an accepted fact?
-That given the same level of training, nutrition etc blacks dominate at Sport over all other races? Particularly sports requiring physical strength and endurance.
Sure, in Africa those countries have little devlopment, advantages, technology or medical care, etc. Its the third world. they're more concerned about finding enough drinking water each day.

But if you put Africans into an environment where they can flourish and have the same access to all the advantages of first world nations.. they become dominant. Hence American sport is dominated by blacks. from boxing and athletics through to american football. Superior athletic DNA.

Captain Corea

Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:26 am Post subject:

nautilus wrote:

JMO wrote:

nautilus wrote:

Africa probably has the most naturally athletic and physically superior people in the world. But being mired in poverty they cannot realise their potential on the world stage.

What's your basis for this statement? Not an attack, just wondering...

Weightlifting?

nautilus wrote:

After Russia's economic collapse, no more medals:

In 2004, Russia was 3rd with 92 medals - hardly a slump
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Summer_Olympics_medal_count

JMO

Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:48 am Post subject:

nautilus wrote:

JMO wrote:

nautilus wrote:

Africa probably has the most naturally athletic and physically superior people in the world. But being mired in poverty they cannot realise their potential on the world stage.

What's your basis for this statement? Not an attack, just wondering...

Well firstly, I don't think you can lump all africans together.

Black players do dominate in american sports but that seems to be a special case, ie..black people in the states were bred to be strong and quick for many generations. There seems to be an economic pressure in black communities in America, in that athletics is one of the only choices.

I've always wondered where the black players are in rugby for example. There are large black populations in England, France and South Africa. Those teams are in no way dominated by black players. now this could be a product of other environmental and cultural factors.

I'm not sure that black people are nessacarily better athletically, but that there are complicated cultural factors forcing black people into certain sports and economic factors that motivates them to excel.

Personally as an avid American football fan, it is my opinion that the racial bias across position, is more of a result of people's belief about athletic ability than reality. Over many different coaches black and white players are pushed towards different positions and labels are applied. A black guy with the same combine numbers as a white guy will be labeled as 'rangy', 'has good closing speed' whilst the white guy will be 'deceptively quick' and 'gutsy'.

Tiberious aka Sparkles

Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: I'm one cool cat!

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:53 am Post subject:

nautilus wrote:

JMO wrote:

nautilus wrote:

Africa probably has the most naturally athletic and physically superior people in the world. But being mired in poverty they cannot realise their potential on the world stage.

What's your basis for this statement? Not an attack, just wondering...

isn't it an accepted fact?

You truly are a dumbass of the highest variety.

I blame your inferior DNA.

nautilus

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:39 am Post subject:

Tiberious aka Sparkles wrote:

nautilus wrote:

JMO wrote:

nautilus wrote:

Africa probably has the most naturally athletic and physically superior people in the world. But being mired in poverty they cannot realise their potential on the world stage.

What's your basis for this statement? Not an attack, just wondering...

isn't it an accepted fact?

You truly are a dumbass of the highest variety.

I blame your inferior DNA.

still sore then? Laughing

nautilus

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:55 am Post subject:

JMO wrote:

Black players do dominate in american sports but that seems to be a special case,

You don't think there are any anatomical differencces between races?

..or that such differences may confer some races with a general advantage over others?

Racial differences are a reality. Your average Dutchman is taller than your average Japanese, and with a greater lung capacity. You're saying this would give no advantage?

This has nothing to do with racism. All people are equal in a socio-political sense to me. But different geographic populations of humanity have slightly differing features and strengths as I see it.

Its no different to darwins finches having slightly different beak sizes/shapes within the same species.

When it comes to long distance running, my money is on people from a population that has lived at high altitudes, chased game across the plains every day for breakfast every morning, for many many generations, (eg Kenyans) over a people whose heritage is as lowland jungle dwellers.

I don't believe Koreans are naturally superior athletes in comparison to many/most other nations. Most of them appear unable to walk straight or catch a ball. So how do we explain their recent rash of gold medals? Economic advancement, that has helped them get organised to make the most of what little they have. Same goes for China. Their first olympic medal was only in 1984.

Last edited by nautilus on Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:01 am; edited 1 time in total

Beej

Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Location: Eungam Loop

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:56 am Post subject:

Why are black African distance runners the best in the world while black American distance runners dont even exist?

JMO

Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:09 am Post subject:

nautilus wrote:

JMO wrote:

Black players do dominate in american sports but that seems to be a special case,

You don't think there are any anatomical differencces between races?

mmm..thanks for addressing none of my post. I'll do this point by point.

Firstly..
Could you go into detail on the anatomical differences between races?

Quote:

Racial differences are a reality. Your average Dutchman is taller than your average Japanese, and with a greater lung capacity. You're saying this would give no advantage?

Wait...dutch and japanese are races? Height is determined within a population by nutrition to the best of my knowledge. How would you account for the difference in height between people of the same race(dutch(6ft) and Belgium (5, 10")? Or the one inch difference between the north of italy and the south? Are these racial differences?

Quote:

This has nothing to do with racism.

no-one mentioned racism.

Quote:

When it comes to long distance running, my money is on people from a population that has lived at high altitudes, chased game across the plains every day for breakfast every morning, for many many generations, over a people whose heritage is as lowland jungle dwellers.

this is environment, not race. Black people do not all live at high altitudes. People in parts of ethiopa and kenya do. These people also have cultural and economic incentives to become runners.

I agree that people from certain environments have advantages at certain sports. This does not extend to all black people.

nautilus

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:26 am Post subject:

JMO wrote:

Height is determined within a population by nutrition to the best of my knowledge.

The Japanese have not lacked for good nutrition for generations now. Why are they then shorter than the Dutch?
Why are their facial features different? is that nutrition as well?

no, its called different DNA profiles whereby som,e traits become concentrated in certain geographical populations (probably better terms to use for this debate than the word "race"). Given obvious anatomical differences, why would these not lead to advantages in certain abilities or sports? You seem to even be denying that DNA differences between populations exist?

I don't even know why you're questioning this. Unless you're somehow upset that whites are inherently inferior at crossing the finish line first? Rest easy- i'm sure you'd make a better swimmer.

Quote:

I agree that people from certain environments have advantages at certain sports. This does not extend to all black people.

But on average, most.

travel zen

Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Location: Good old Toronto, Canada

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:25 am Post subject:

I have to agree with nautilus.

I can't tell you how many times coaches would tell me that "I have the genes" and that I could look better than everyone if I workout.

The biritish used to justify 'using' Africans becuase they are so big and most of all hardy...when other peoples and cultures die off from being worked so hard. The same was said of the Russians.

Black men do look alot bigger than most and this vomit about

Quote:

Black players do dominate in american sports but that seems to be a special case, ie..black people in the states were bred to be strong and quick for many generations.

is just alot of idiocy. Black people weren't bred, they were worked to an early grave on plantations. It's like saying the Jews were bred to be survivors in the holocaust.

JMO

Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:30 pm Post subject:

travel zen wrote:

Black men do look alot bigger than most and this vomit about

Quote:

Black players do dominate in american sports but that seems to be a special case, ie..black people in the states were bred to be strong and quick for many generations.

is just alot of idiocy. Black people weren't bred, they were worked to an early grave on plantations. It's like saying the Jews were bred to be survivors in the holocaust.

black men are on average shorter than white men in America(by a small amount).

You may be right about there being no selective breeding for slaves in America(do you have a link that refutes this commonly held notion?..i;ve held ideas like this that were wrong before). It does seem probable however that slave traders would abduct the strongest, biggest etc which might have the same effect.

I would also say there is a psychological effect emphasizing physical tools in one race.

I maintain that economic and cultural motivation is a much bigger factor than genetics in american sports.

Last edited by JMO on Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

JMO

Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject:

nautilus wrote:

JMO wrote:

Height is determined within a population by nutrition to the best of my knowledge.

The Japanese have not lacked for good nutrition for generations now. Why are they then shorter than the Dutch?
Why are their facial features different? is that nutrition as well?

.

lol again only going to talk about the points you think you can refute.

Quote:

Height is determined within a population by nutrition to the best of my knowledge

there is a genetic baseline as it were when it comes to height for each race but nutrition and environment effects it within that population.

Black people and white people seem to have near identical height in the US at least(whites are slightly taller).

This does not support your point unless you would like to point out the dutch dominance of basketball.

Quote:

no, its called different DNA profiles whereby som,e traits become concentrated in certain geographical populations (probably better terms to use for this debate than the word "race")

I agree on the second part and was my entire point in saying this..

I wrote

Quote:

this is environment, not race. Black people do not all live at high altitudes. People in parts of ethiopa and kenya do.

You however cannot substitute geographical population for race as they are not the same thing. Not all africans or black people are good long distance runners.

Again however, east africans already dominate long distance running. Where is this potential? To dominate more.

Quote:

Given obvious anatomical differences, why would these not lead to advantages in certain abilities or sports?

Again could you link to and point out these anatomical differences?

Quote:

You seem to even be denying that DNA differences between populations exist?

No I denied your original statement, or at least asked for evidence(which you still havn't produced).

original statement:

Quote:

Africa probably has the most naturally athletic and physically superior people in the world. But being mired in poverty they cannot realise their potential on the world stage.

Actually come to think of it, long distance running undermines your point again. Why do such economically poor countries such as Ethiopa and Kenya produce so many good runners? Being mired in poverty, they still realise their potential, yet other africans do not. Even though they are physically dominant in your eyes.

If this is your whole argument: that dna differences between populations exist, then i wholeheartedly agree. this does not extend to whole races in a uniform way however so as to give one whole race an athletic advantage.

Quote:

I don't even know why you're questioning this. Unless you're somehow upset that whites are inherently inferior at crossing the finish line first? Rest easy- i'm sure you'd make a better swimmer.

So white people's dna make them better swimmers? Who knew..

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