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NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
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 Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| jmuns wrote: |
| from smoking to carbon footprints. so everyone who has a small footprint from using green energy. that is the least of your worries. do you drink coffee? where does it come from? do you only buy organics? local products? local produce? buy things that come in plastic bottles? what kind of plastic? do you eat meat? how was it raised? where was it raised? where was its' food produced? how did it get to you? no one has a small footprint. oh and did you take a boat here to save on energy and emissions from the use of airplanes as well? |
I drink green tea but do enjoy the occasional cuppa black English tea. I only buy local and/or organic, or do without. If I were in NYC, it would always be local and organic, but Korea doesn't always provide that option. I've just started a garden to supplement what I can't find that's up to my standard. No plastics unless it's unavoidable. I'm vegetarian.
I have two pet rats. They eat vegetable scraps, brown rice or black barley, and whatever I've made for supper. They don't bark. They squeak a little, and sometimes wake me up when they wrestle or run on their wheel in the rat mansion, but are otherwise awesome little dudes.
I did take a plane, however. Nobody's perfect. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| jmuns wrote: |
| from smoking to carbon footprints. so everyone who has a small footprint from using green energy. that is the least of your worries. do you drink coffee? where does it come from? do you only buy organics? local products? local produce? buy things that come in plastic bottles? what kind of plastic? do you eat meat? how was it raised? where was it raised? where was its' food produced? how did it get to you? no one has a small footprint. oh and did you take a boat here to save on energy and emissions from the use of airplanes as well? |
All those things are collective efforts, in contrast to an individual smoking in front of others. Even with driving, the pollution from one's own car is very tiny. Only because millions of others drive is it a problem and there's no ethical equivalence between criticizing a driver and criticizing a smoker.
I think the best analogy is dog owners. Dogs' noise, feces and in many cases attacks individually cause direct sensory displeasure to others, very similarly to unwanted cigarette smoke. Whilst I am in favor of banning smoking in public, it is nothing like as serious, in my view, as the disease on society that is the pet dog. Cigarettes can easily be smoked in private, and also cigarettes raise tax revenue, whereas dog-ownership is one of the most inconsiderate things I can think of and it boggles my mind that keeping an animal that has the potential to make so much noise is socially acceptable, |
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NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| jmuns wrote: |
| from smoking to carbon footprints. so everyone who has a small footprint from using green energy. that is the least of your worries. do you drink coffee? where does it come from? do you only buy organics? local products? local produce? buy things that come in plastic bottles? what kind of plastic? do you eat meat? how was it raised? where was it raised? where was its' food produced? how did it get to you? no one has a small footprint. oh and did you take a boat here to save on energy and emissions from the use of airplanes as well? |
All those things are collective efforts, in contrast to an individual smoking in front of others. Even with driving, the pollution from one's own car is very tiny. Only because millions of others drive is it a problem and there's no ethical equivalence between criticizing a driver and criticizing a smoker.
I think the best analogy is dog owners. Dogs' noise, feces and in many cases attacks individually cause direct sensory displeasure to others, very similarly to unwanted cigarette smoke. Whilst I am in favor of banning smoking in public, it is nothing like as serious, in my view, as the disease on society that is the pet dog. Cigarettes can easily be smoked in private, and also cigarettes raise tax revenue, whereas dog-ownership is one of the most inconsiderate things I can think of and it boggles my mind that keeping an animal that has the potential to make so much noise is socially acceptable, |
I think the problem is that cigarettes aren't smoked in private, and that the private smoke isn't very private when it creeps into one's home from outside.
As for tax revenue: does that tax money go towards healthcare? Because all of the too-poor-for-insurance-but-can-afford-$8-a-pack smokers are going to need it, and I sure as heck don't want to pay for it, while I'm all for universal healthcare. Maybe they could create a credit system. One carton is X amount of money towards their future chemo.
Babies have the potential for making more noise than dogs, imho. |
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| Seoulio wrote: |
Bramble he brought it up because machinoman brought up the simlariteos to dogs and smoking.
He in no way meant it as you are suggesting, he has told you this, this is beside the point so piss off about it please.
This thread has goten off tracj enough without you suggesting that he meant something he in no way meant.
Perhaps you havent read the whole thread, I'd suggest you to that and stop your ignorant attack on him. |
I've read it and I stand by what I said. Fox is obviously the reincarnation of another (fill in the blank) who made similar statements in the past and I refuse to tolerate it. |
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BriTunes
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:29 am Post subject: |
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Perspective: the Iceland earthquake has put out 7 times the emissions all of human-made pollution has in the history of the world. In addition, just breathing air in Europe after the erution is equivilant to smoking 9 packs a day for 40 years.
Good luck with your scaremongering " ewes some guy is smoking in the same room as me ....ewwwwww" |
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English Matt
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| BriTunes wrote: |
Perspective: the Iceland earthquake has put out 7 times the emissions all of human-made pollution has in the history of the world. In addition, just breathing air in Europe after the erution is equivilant to smoking 9 packs a day for 40 years.
Good luck with your scaremongering " ewes some guy is smoking in the same room as me ....ewwwwww" |
So half the population of Europe is going to develope emphysema or lung cancer or some other smoking related illness pretty soon then are they? Because 50% of all smokers who smoke for 30 years develop one of these conditions. Gee, I better phone home and say goodbye to mum.
Additionally, it wasn't an earthquake it was a volcanic eruption.....please read the words printed next to the pretty pictures on the news websites. What are 'emissions all of human-made pollution'.....I'm not even sure Google translate will be able to help me with that one. How much pollution did Krakatoa pump out into the atmosphere when it erupted? What about the volcanic eruptions in Italy, Hawaii, the Aleutians (et al) that happen so regularly? I guess living in Hawaii must be worse than having to live in my local bar......dudes there smoke A LOT.
If you are going to make such ridiculous claims then please post the link to whichever blog, written by whichever mentalist who flunked science class at school, you read it on.
Also, please learn to spell. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal wrote: |
| As for tax revenue: does that tax money go towards healthcare? |
In some countries, the UK for example, yes. I forget the exact figures, but tax revenue from tobacco sales is far in excess of the costs of treating smoking-related diseases. I'm strongly opposed to government-run healthcare, personally, but certainly tax revenue from tobacco is an extremely efficient way to deliver healthcare to many people, smoker and nonsmoker alike.
| NYC Gal wrote: |
| Because all of the too-poor-for-insurance-but-can-afford-$8-a-pack smokers are going to need it |
Actually, they'll on average need a lot less healthcare than nonsmokers, because smokers tend to die at least 10 years before average life expectancy. It's much more expensive to provide healthcare for those who live until they're 80 or 90 than for smokers who die at 65 or 70. So smokers are brilliant for society: they pay tax that otherwise wouldn't be paid if they were nonsmokers and they die prior to the time when most people need the most healthcare. But those who despise smokers rarely consider this. To them, others' cigarette smoke produces unpleasant short-term sensations, and that, seemingly, is all that's important.
| NYC Gal wrote: |
| they could create a credit system. One carton is X amount of money towards their future chemo. |
Very good idea, although they're far more likely to drop dead of a heart attack before needing any. |
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NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| NYC_Gal wrote: |
| As for tax revenue: does that tax money go towards healthcare? |
In some countries, the UK for example, yes. I forget the exact figures, but tax revenue from tobacco sales is far in excess of the costs of treating smoking-related diseases. I'm strongly opposed to government-run healthcare, personally, but certainly tax revenue from tobacco is an extremely efficient way to deliver healthcare to many people, smoker and nonsmoker alike.
I'm well aware, but much of the tax money in my country went to a BS war, but that's a whole different argument. I'm hoping the healthcare system really does get an overhaul.
| NYC Gal wrote: |
| Because all of the too-poor-for-insurance-but-can-afford-$8-a-pack smokers are going to need it |
Actually, they'll on average need a lot less healthcare than nonsmokers, because smokers tend to die at least 10 years before average life expectancy. It's much more expensive to provide healthcare for those who live until they're 80 or 90 than for smokers who die at 65 or 70. So smokers are brilliant for society: they pay tax that otherwise wouldn't be paid if they were nonsmokers and they die prior to the time when most people need the most healthcare. But those who despise smokers rarely consider this. To them, others' cigarette smoke produces unpleasant short-term sensations, and that, seemingly, is all that's important.
10 years off of 82 (I may be wrong, but the last time I checked this was the average age in the USA. It may be slightly higher or lower now) is still a ripe old age. At 50, they will still cost me money. They will still need to visit the doctor. Smoking is stupid, but I think it should be legal. There just needs to be a way for it to be contained, which was my argument in the first place. People should be able to do whatever they want to their bodies it if doesn't affect other people's health.
| NYC Gal wrote: |
| they could create a credit system. One carton is X amount of money towards their future chemo. |
Very good idea, although they're far more likely to drop dead of a heart attack before needing any.
We can only hope. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Bramble wrote: |
I've read it and I stand by what I said.
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Seoulio was completely correct, and as usual, you're completely wrong.
| Bramble wrote: |
Fox is obviously the reincarnation of another (fill in the blank) who made similar statements in the past and I refuse to tolerate it.
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You refuse to tolerate it, do you? Well unfortunately, what you are or aren't willing to tolerate is completely irrelevant. You're a powerless, pathetic little man who daily subjects himself to a website he openly professes to hate.
And no, I'm not another person's "reincarnation". This is my first account here ever, made some time after I began working in Korea. You can believe it or not, but it's the truth. I've no doubt other people have said things to you in the past that resemble my own statements, because you're quite frankly an annoying person who says catastrophically incorrect and incredibly annoying things with astounding frequency. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| BriTunes wrote: |
| In addition, just breathing air in Europe after the erution is equivilant to smoking 9 packs a day for 40 years. |
Can you provide some proof for this statement? Because the average European certainly doesn't seem to be suffering from the same health defects someone who smoked 9 packs a day for 40 years would suffer from. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| jmuns wrote: |
| no one has a small footprint. |
"Small footprint" is a relative term. What constitutes a "small footprint" is based on how large other people's are, not based upon any objective standard. Can we just stop the silliness and admit that plenty of people who take enough reasonable steps to limit their lifestyle's impacts on others that we aren't being hypocritical to complain about smoking? Or are we going to keep pretending that unless you're some sort of mountain hermit that subsists on enlightenment you can never, ever take issue with people lighting tiny toxic fires in public places?
If I don't do things to harm or annoy others in public, there's nothing hypocritical with me taking issue with other people smoking in public. Nothing. |
I'll agree that people who do take those steps are not being hypocrites.
But I will instead suggest that if indeed the Earth IS such a dirty place, the smoke makes such a minute difference that to go to the point of enacting laws dictating that a private business should not be allowed to choose whether or not it allows smoke is way overreacting.
I do agree with Fox's compromise solution of leaving it up to individual counties/municipalities. State-wide or Federal bans are just way too much government.
Not every problem has a law as its solution.
Whatever happened to sucking it up and dealing with it? I don't mind yapping dogs or fruit trucks with loudspeakers or 'unsanitary' food or smoke or people wanting to go home and light up a joint or loud music or whistletips or the words In God We Trust or two men kissing or someone holding a KKK rally or whatnot
Go and do your own thing as long as you let me do mine. Let people have their way of life and practically this is best found at the local level. |
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soakitincider
Joined: 19 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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Anybdy got a light?  |
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Draz
Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Location: Land of Morning Clam
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Seoulio wrote: |
I have already said that a barking dog IS CAUSE for you to complain. However you COULD ( not saying its fair) LEAVE an area where a dog is barking, stress over. I COULD leave my house when the guy smokes, course the smoking smell lingers even when the smoking stops, not the case if a dog stops barking, there is no residual barking left over when the dog is silent. |
I have found the hole in your argument, the yappy dog in the apartment next to yours is NEVER silent.
Never.  |
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Seoulio
Joined: 02 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| jmuns wrote: |
| from smoking to carbon footprints. so everyone who has a small footprint from using green energy. that is the least of your worries. do you drink coffee? where does it come from? do you only buy organics? local products? local produce? buy things that come in plastic bottles? what kind of plastic? do you eat meat? how was it raised? where was it raised? where was its' food produced? how did it get to you? no one has a small footprint. oh and did you take a boat here to save on energy and emissions from the use of airplanes as well? |
All those things are collective efforts, in contrast to an individual smoking in front of others. Even with driving, the pollution from one's own car is very tiny. Only because millions of others drive is it a problem and there's no ethical equivalence between criticizing a driver and criticizing a smoker.
I think the best analogy is dog owners. Dogs' noise, feces and in many cases attacks individually cause direct sensory displeasure to others, very similarly to unwanted cigarette smoke. Whilst I am in favor of banning smoking in public, it is nothing like as serious, in my view, as the disease on society that is the pet dog. Cigarettes can easily be smoked in private, and also cigarettes raise tax revenue, whereas dog-ownership is one of the most inconsiderate things I can think of and it boggles my mind that keeping an animal that has the potential to make so much noise is socially acceptable, |
well hell, lets ban infants or any tantrum throwing children under the age of five.
lets lock up any parents who let thier child scream in the supermarket when the cant get thier sugar crisp cereal.
PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS HERE!!!!!!!
I have both a newborn baby, and a 4 year old dog, I assure you that my child makes more noise than my dog. |
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Seoulio
Joined: 02 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| Bramble wrote: |
| Seoulio wrote: |
Bramble he brought it up because machinoman brought up the simlariteos to dogs and smoking.
He in no way meant it as you are suggesting, he has told you this, this is beside the point so piss off about it please.
This thread has goten off tracj enough without you suggesting that he meant something he in no way meant.
Perhaps you havent read the whole thread, I'd suggest you to that and stop your ignorant attack on him. |
I've read it and I stand by what I said. Fox is obviously the reincarnation of another (fill in the blank) who made similar statements in the past and I refuse to tolerate it. |
well then I question your intelligence.
I read it, know darn well what he meant so move on.
He mentioned it because of that guy that mentioned it before, that's it, thats all, and he has confirmed it with his response.
quit being a douche |
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