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blade
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
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 Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| rosetintedwanderlust wrote: |
| NYC_Gal wrote: |
| Louis VI wrote: |
What is it to me if someone wears nose rings or gets tattoos or gets fat or a dye job or wears army boots? Geez, some of you seem real uptight.
| rosetintedwanderlust wrote: |
| ... just letting them know you are concerned with their health... |
Your concerned with their health? Really?! That's why it bothers you? You wanna be a stranger's mom? Chances are they get offended because you aren't minding your own business. Nothing like getting criticized by a stranger. |
1. Bad hair and army boots don't tax the health industry. Bad lifestyle choices tend to result in health issues (joint problems, blood pressure, diabetes, etc...)
2. Many people have fat people in their families. My dad hates when I talk about his weight, but then he complains about his knees, ankles, breathing problems, etc... I don't make fun of him, but I try to get him to eat right and exercise, to no avail it seems.
3. Maybe if they are offended they will put the fork down and move around a bit. Sometimes negative attention makes the best incentive. |
Exactly! With universal healthcare coming and people being more unhealthy than ever before God knows how much we are all going to be taxed. I think people that are responsible for their being unhealthy (smokers, drug abusers, and , as you said, people that can't put the fork down) should have to pay more. Obviously that isn't going to happen since those people are generally a lot poorer so maybe the government will start implementing more taxes on unhealthy processed foods and more to educate people on the food they are eating. I'm not going to hold my breath though. |
Get rid of the communist health care then. Problem solved. |
Your kidding right? European countries generally offer much better access to healthcare yet people there aren't anywhere near as fat as lots of Americans. |
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NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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I'm fairly sure that if people are all paying into social programs like healthcare, there will be more pressure for fatties to drop the weight.
Chub is one thing. Not being able to touch your toes or walk up 5 flights of stairs (unless you've got an injury or chronic illness) is something else altogether. |
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morrisonhotel
Joined: 18 Jul 2009
Location: Gyeonggi-do
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal wrote: |
| I'm fairly sure that if people are all paying into social programs like healthcare, there will be more pressure for fatties to drop the weight. |
The pressure might be there but it hasn't stopped people in the UK becoming fatter. Only in the last year or so have the government actually started properly targeting the overweight and obese. |
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Louis VI
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
Location: In my Kingdom
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| What happens to social pressure when the majority become obese? Have we reached the tipping (over) point? |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| blade wrote: |
| Your kidding right? European countries generally offer much better access to healthcare yet people there aren't anywhere near as fat as lots of Americans. |
What's your point here? Mine was that fat people aren't a burden on society without universal health care. Therefore there should be no justification for raising taxes. Removing subsidies would be better.
The whole problem originates with the government. Corn subsidies etc. Billions in tax dollars are spent so Monsanto can grow their industrial GMO crud, while small producers get taxed and regulated into oblivion. It's really no mystery why people are getting fatter. |
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happiness
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:14 am Post subject: |
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wasnt the old chinese ideal of a fatman as a richman? the us is the richest country in the world, why wouldnt they be fat (we..me too)? this idea
of thinness is a relatively new one, no? |
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NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:18 am Post subject: |
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| Ah, but poor people tend to be fatter than the wealthier. |
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The Happy Warrior
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| MattAwesome wrote: |
| they already tax mcdonalds and soft drinks in the states. |
You mean sales tax? "They" would be the State gov'ts. I'm talking about adding a Federal VAT behind that. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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I think its a lot of it is in how people eat. North Americans and say, Koreans tend a lot of times to eat like someone is about to come and snatch their food away. Most meals are devoured in the blink of an eye.
Reminds me of an episode of Deep Space Nine where Garak is pointing out how human's suffer from "the fear of starvation amid plenty. It points to some dark secret deep buried deep in the human psyche" |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
I think its a lot of it is in how people eat. North Americans and say, Koreans tend a lot of times to eat like someone is about to come and snatch their food away. Most meals are devoured in the blink of an eye.
Reminds me of an episode of Deep Space Nine where Garak is pointing out how human's suffer from "the fear of starvation amid plenty. It points to some dark secret deep buried deep in the human psyche" |
Nah, it's the high fructose corn syrup. It's in everything Americans eat (industrial GMO corn is heavily subsidized in the US). Even if you eat relatively little and exercise, HFCS triggers the calories be stored in your body as fat. You can diet and be malnourished and hungry and still be fat. Soda and junk food is obviously the worst, but HFCS is also in practically every packaged/canned food (think Campbell's soup, yogurt, breakfast cereals, condiments etc.) you get from the supermarket. It is basically poison.
Oh, and if that weren't enough - most HFCS also contains mercury:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/26/AR2009012601831.html |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| The Happy Warrior wrote: |
| MattAwesome wrote: |
| they already tax mcdonalds and soft drinks in the states. |
You mean sales tax? "They" would be the State gov'ts. I'm talking about adding a Federal VAT behind that. |
Worst idea ever. Tax money just goes to subsidizing big agriculture. The only way to solve the problem is to cut off the corporate welfare and get rid of unfair regulation, so smaller producers can compete. The less money we give the federal government the better. They're a pack of crooks. Just look at the FDA: nothing more than a bunch of Monsanto lobbyists. The government simply cannot be trusted. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/justin-stoneman/post_868_b_720398.html?view=print
| Quote: |
...
If I own a sock company, I need people with feet to maintain my business. Similarly, if I own a diet company (total combined U.S. industry value: est. $45-$100 billion), I need fat people. Luckily for the diet industry, the even more powerful food industry (estimated value: astronomical -- U.S. food-based retailing alone >$1,200 billion) make their main profits from cheap processed foods. Foods which make people fat.
The medical industry is similarly grateful -- the unhealthy obese are as vital for their profit margins as oil is to the oil business. And we've seen what happens when the oil industry has their supply stream compromised.
So, if industries (with a combined net worth and power exceeding many actual countries), need a vital supply chain to survive, we can safely say that they will probably work out how to get it.
They need fat people. So what do they do?
People in America like to think that they eat with freedom. Ultimately, however, they can only pick what is presented to them, and what they can afford. Then, the decision is based on what they believe to be healthy, tasty and safe. With that in mind, can you imagine how great it would be for the industries mentioned above, if dietary advice given could be contained and restricted to just one organization that they could pour money into? That scenario is not just some North Koreanesque wet dream. It is USA 2010.
The ADA (American Dietetic Association) has complete monopoly on dietary advice. To keep the bubble airtight, the full might of the law has even been implemented. Kim Jong-il would be proud of the attention to detail.
Staggeringly, in 46 out of 50 States, the message the authorities want you to have is protected. The law determines who is able to provide you with nutritional advice.
The Commission on Dietetic Registration is the credentializing agency for the ADA. A practicing dietician not registered with the ADA or CDR is liable to face prosecution in over 90% of the country.
With that in mind, who precisely is 'sponsoring' the ADA and the nutritional advice you receive?
My friends, it is a beautiful army. Partners (recent and current -- and their latest annual revenue figures):
Coca Cola (revenue $31.4 billion), GlaxoSmithKline (revenue $42.5 billion), Hershey's (revenue $5.3 billion), Unilever (revenue $55.8 billion), Aramark (revenue: $12.3 billion). There are even some 'premier sponsors': Mars (revenue: $30 billion), PepsiCo (revenue $44.3 billion), Truvia sweetener (revenue of parent company Cargill: $116.6 billion), Kellogg's ($12.7 billion).
ADA 'sponsors' have combined revenues of over $400 billion.
Why are these gargantuan companies -- whose only intention is to make money, not make you healthy -- allowed to fund the ADA?
The ADA themselves can perhaps assist us. On their own website (in the section where they are trying to seduce corporate America), they offer a helping hand:
...
So, with the system in place, what would be the ideal message that corporate America could choose to create to strengthen their businesses?
If you want to know when (and how) the obesity epidemic started, you do not need a degree in science to understand the details. Just a simple little line, that a child could understand, will tell you all you need to know.
Have a look at the graph below. Notice the steady line for decades and then the upward leap from 1977 onwards?
2010-09-17-obesit.jpeg
...
In 1977 America changed its health advice. In a nutshell (or, more likely, an ADA approved Mars bar): Eat more starchy foods, eat more carbohydrates, saturated fats are bad. If that sounds like pretty good advice to you, then you don't know enough about what you are putting into your mouth.
Your grandparents were raised in a generation aware that God's supermarket was better than man's. Saturated fat was a vital part of their diet. For them, obesity was not a common health problem. They were not suffering malnutrition in the fat soluble vitamins (A, D, E and K). Remarkably, you, dear Western reader, probably are.
A processed product with 'zero fat' stamped on it (invariably high in sugar, chemicals and carbs instead) is great for making profits, but useless for losing weight. Wreaking havoc with insulin and your body's biochemistry is not clever. The majority of the western world now do so on a daily basis.
If you want to have some fun with graphs, you can go and look at the corresponding obesity spikes in other countries when they followed the 1977 change in US advice.
In Canada, the point was near-parallel. In Britain it happened in 1983. The Australians struck around the time of the Brits, launching their magically stupid 'Health Pyramid'. The obesity rate in each territory began its steady ascent. Big fat corporate party time.
Your commercially sponsored weight loss advice is making you gain weight. It would be laughable, a comic irony, if the consequences were not so tragic. From diabetes to obesity to cancer to heart disease, the price being paid for corporate profit is in lives.
...
Look at the true details of the Keys' 'Seven Countries' study. How the food industry have used it to falsely demonize fats and change global policies. How we have been lied to about the relevance of calories. How the false 'crimes of cholesterol' can be simply resolved by picking up a globe and looking at the proximity to the equator of the 'Seven Countries' involved in the study.
Educate yourself and spot the lies that your trusted sources are feeding you. Alarmingly, few supposed 'experts' are free from bias. Including many learned figures who try to voice opinion on this great site. Do not ever underestimate the power of industry and the corrupting influence of money. People have vested interests and through intent, ignorance (or a dangerous combination of both), preach some unforgivable lies.
This issue is about money. This issue is about race. Obesity in black Americans is 50% higher than that of white Americans. Obesity in Hispanics is 25% higher than that of white Americans.
Obesity rates are highest in the poor - they are the ones who rely on cheap processed foods to feed their families.
The poor, carb-addicted fatties make the thin, rich shareholders very happy. |
Eat like your grandpa and weigh like him too. |
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NYC_Gal
Joined: 08 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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Local farms, people. Farmers' markets, fresh and clean produce, and wild-caught meat if you do like meat. I'm veg (well, pescatarian in Asia) because the meat is so unhealthy, but in NY, I occasionally got some fresh pheasant and venison when the mood struck. That stuff is far healthier than farmed beef (unless you can find a small one that grass feeds its cattle) and poultry.
I'd say eat more like your great grandparents. Many of our grandparents were parents when faster foods were becoming big. Wonderbread, anyone? |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| I think its a lot of it is in how people eat. |
This is something I've thought about. Most people back home prefer to have their own plate, piling on the food before eating. This probably leads to overeating because sometimes 'the eyes are bigger than the belly', so to speak.
In Asia, people take small pieces until they feel full, so they eat less (maybe).
Obviously, this is conjecture and I haven't researched into it, but damn those portions back home seem huge. |
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Bloopity Bloop
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Location: Seoul yo
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| cj1976 wrote: |
| but damn those portions back home seem huge. |
one of the things i love about the states.
work out and they're not a problem, they're just plain AWESOME! |
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