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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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highstreet
Joined: 13 Nov 2010
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 Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm With You wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
There are lots of laws that are posted... but maybe not enforced. Living in Korea, it's easy to relate to that.  |
As long as the teacher has a valid 3 or 5 year work visa they can quit their job and go live in the park and no one will bother them - it's been done, too!
The point here is that there is no cancellation of teachers' visas after the 3 month point if they are unemployed. It's not a crime in Japan to be unemployed - even for foreigners, as long as they have a valid work visa.
Just don't overstay your visa and the Japanese government leaves them alone.
The work visa system in Japan sounds so much superior to what we have in Korea and what I'm hearing from teachers in Thailand or Taiwan. But, as mentioned above, the market is tight in Japan and start up costs are pretty steep. I just wish Korea would adopt a similar work permit system. |
That's not a good point. Korea probably doesn't want homeless expats running around.  |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| There are lots of laws that are posted... but maybe not enforced. Living in Korea, it's easy to relate to that. |
True! I am sure the law is applied unevenely in Japan too. These things happen.
As for the visa issue, if Korea went towards a less restrictive visa for teachers, it stands to reason that employers would also stop providing accomodations and flights. That would be a standard precautionary measure for them considering teachers would be more likely to quit on a whim.
It ends up being a trade off I think. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| There are lots of laws that are posted... but maybe not enforced. Living in Korea, it's easy to relate to that. |
True! I am sure the law is applied unevenely in Japan too. These things happen.
As for the visa issue, if Korea went towards a less restrictive visa for teachers, it stands to reason that employers would also stop providing accomodations and flights. That would be a standard precautionary measure for them considering teachers would be more likely to quit on a whim.
It ends up being a trade off I think. |
Maybe the flights or the contract could state the airfare must be returned if the employee leaves before a certain amount of time.
As for accommodations, which are so expensive in Korea, especially the upfront expenses, they'd still have to address that. Or find applicants with the wherewithal to put down a big hunk of cash to secure an apartment. |
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Brooks
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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People with a Japanese spouse can collect unemployment insurance in Japan.
I have not heard of teachers who are unemployed who want to stay in Japan. They would leave unless they have a Japanese spouse who wants to stay.
Even then, Japan is expensive, but more so without a job.
I do know an American with permament residence. He lives in Hawaii with his son and comes back to Yokohama from time to time. He hasn't worked in four years, and has lived off his savings. His wife only works part-time. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| There are lots of laws that are posted... but maybe not enforced. Living in Korea, it's easy to relate to that. |
True! I am sure the law is applied unevenely in Japan too. These things happen.
As for the visa issue, if Korea went towards a less restrictive visa for teachers, it stands to reason that employers would also stop providing accomodations and flights. That would be a standard precautionary measure for them considering teachers would be more likely to quit on a whim.
It ends up being a trade off I think. |
Maybe the flights or the contract could state the airfare must be returned if the employee leaves before a certain amount of time.
As for accommodations, which are so expensive in Korea, especially the upfront expenses, they'd still have to address that. Or find applicants with the wherewithal to put down a big hunk of cash to secure an apartment. |
Well it would be likely schools would offer some form of housing allowance (like some do now) but that a Teacher would then pay rent.
As for airfare, most jobs in Japan do not offer any. Current contract with the more restrictive E2 visas already have clauses that state you must reimburse your flight if you quit before 6 months. In a market where changing jobs becomes easier, schools would most likely not offer up any form of airfare.
One would hope that with the disapearance of airfare and housing, pay would crawl up a bit to compensate but that is far from a sure thing!
As I said, it would become a trade off. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| There are lots of laws that are posted... but maybe not enforced. Living in Korea, it's easy to relate to that. |
True! I am sure the law is applied unevenely in Japan too. These things happen.
As for the visa issue, if Korea went towards a less restrictive visa for teachers, it stands to reason that employers would also stop providing accomodations and flights. That would be a standard precautionary measure for them considering teachers would be more likely to quit on a whim.
It ends up being a trade off I think. |
Maybe the flights or the contract could state the airfare must be returned if the employee leaves before a certain amount of time.
As for accommodations, which are so expensive in Korea, especially the upfront expenses, they'd still have to address that. Or find applicants with the wherewithal to put down a big hunk of cash to secure an apartment. |
Well it would be likely schools would offer some form of housing allowance (like some do now) but that a Teacher would then pay rent.
As for airfare, most jobs in Japan do not offer any. Current contract with the more restrictive E2 visas already have clauses that state you must reimburse your flight if you quit before 6 months. In a market where changing jobs becomes easier, schools would most likely not offer up any form of airfare.
One would hope that with the disapearance of airfare and housing, pay would crawl up a bit to compensate but that is far from a sure thing!
As I said, it would become a trade off. |
I think you're offbase on the housing issue. Taking into account how high rents are in Korea and that the reason the great majority of "teachers" choose to work in Korea is the net pay, I don't think the numbers work without housing included. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:12 am Post subject: |
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Rent and housing is sky high in Japan too, yet they do no offer housing....
I am sure schools would offer some sort of housing allowance and-or deposit but that the housing would cost teachers a bit more. As it stands schools offer these benefits mostly because they have some sort of assurance (contract and visa) that the teacher they hire will stay for the duration of the work agreement. Remove that assurance through a less rigid visa system and it seems likely a school would be less inclined to fork up for these benefits considering a teacher could just move on.
At the end of the day this may be somewhat beneficial as having your own housing protects you better from a shady employer. As for the teachers, they would still keep coming as long as jobs are available and some savings is possible. This market will and is morphing and China is the coming destination for teachers. This is just the normal cycle of most ESL markets. |
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I'm With You
Joined: 01 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| At the end of the day this may be somewhat beneficial as having your own housing protects you better from a shady employer. |
TEFL Rule #1: Never have your housing tied to your employer.
In Japan, an apartment can cost anywhere from Y45,000 ~ Y80,000 depending whether it's a guesthouse and if it's downtown Tokyo. Korean landlords require an insane amount of key money or for a deposit. The Japanese do, too, but it's usually only a month's rent for each. If it's a guesthouse, you pay neither.
Remember also, the average TEFL'ers wage in Japan is roughly equal to 3 million won ~ 3.5 million won, so they earn more than the average EFL teacher does in Korea.
And, more importantly, their work visa is not tied to their employer and is good for 3 - 5 years. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Rent and housing is sky high in Japan too, yet they do no offer housing....
I am sure schools would offer some sort of housing allowance and-or deposit but that the housing would cost teachers a bit more. As it stands schools offer these benefits mostly because they have some sort of assurance (contract and visa) that the teacher they hire will stay for the duration of the work agreement. Remove that assurance through a less rigid visa system and it seems likely a school would be less inclined to fork up for these benefits considering a teacher could just move on.
At the end of the day this may be somewhat beneficial as having your own housing protects you better from a shady employer. As for the teachers, they would still keep coming as long as jobs are available and some savings is possible. This market will and is morphing and China is the coming destination for teachers. This is just the normal cycle of most ESL markets. |
Collusion is pretty common in Korean business. Even if teachers could move, it, in your words, "seems likely" that many or most educational institutions wouldn't take--"scout"--teachers who are leaving other schools early.
What you forget in your continuing comparison between Japan and Korea are overall conditions. The standard of living is higher in Japan, culturally it's a more interesting place to live, etc. There's a reason why Korea has had to pay more than other places to attract "teachers" and has taken, overall, less qualified teachers. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:18 am Post subject: |
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Atwood I did not forget that at all!
In fact Korea would have to keep offering a bit more in terms of salary. Then again, if people need jobs, they will still come, perhaps in lower numbers however.
Anyway, this is all very speculative and it can go many ways. |
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Brooks
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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80,000 yen?
Rent can be more than that.
I pay 130,000 yen in Kawasaki.
Having no rent to pay in Korea, along with the lower cost of living is good.
The subway is a bargain too. In Japan, you pay according to the distance.
Seoul`s subway is really a bargain. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Rent and housing is sky high in Japan too, yet they do no offer housing....
I am sure schools would offer some sort of housing allowance and-or deposit but that the housing would cost teachers a bit more. As it stands schools offer these benefits mostly because they have some sort of assurance (contract and visa) that the teacher they hire will stay for the duration of the work agreement. Remove that assurance through a less rigid visa system and it seems likely a school would be less inclined to fork up for these benefits considering a teacher could just move on.
At the end of the day this may be somewhat beneficial as having your own housing protects you better from a shady employer. As for the teachers, they would still keep coming as long as jobs are available and some savings is possible. This market will and is morphing and China is the coming destination for teachers. This is just the normal cycle of most ESL markets. |
Japan offers subsidized housing. You pay the first 40 to 60 thousand yen and the employer pays the rest. No flights. Not sure about severance. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm With You wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| At the end of the day this may be somewhat beneficial as having your own housing protects you better from a shady employer. |
TEFL Rule #1: Never have your housing tied to your employer.
In Japan, an apartment can cost anywhere from Y45,000 ~ Y80,000 depending whether it's a guesthouse and if it's downtown Tokyo. Korean landlords require an insane amount of key money or for a deposit. The Japanese do, too, but it's usually only a month's rent for each. If it's a guesthouse, you pay neither.
Remember also, the average TEFL'ers wage in Japan is roughly equal to 3 million won ~ 3.5 million won, so they earn more than the average EFL teacher does in Korea.
And, more importantly, their work visa is not tied to their employer and is good for 3 - 5 years. |
You also pay a gift to the landlord for the pleasure of renting from them in Japan. You don't get that back. In Korea, you get the deposit back and it keeps the price of monthly rent down. Not so much in Japan. I love this key system here. Wish it were done in the west. I mean, really, who wants to pay 1000 bucks or more a month for rent? Please!! |
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slothrop
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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edit
Last edited by slothrop on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Brooks
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:02 am Post subject: |
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The gift money really depends. Each place is different.
And there is that gift which must be paid every two years in order to continue to live at the same place.
I really hate that, and always have had to.
That is price that must be paid in order to live less than 15 minutes from a train station.
I do know a few universities in Japan where rent is free, but that is very unusual.
For the single person, Korea is better for saving money.
The cost of living in Japan is high, although Korea has become more expensive over the last dozen years. |
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