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Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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optik404
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
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 Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Rich white hipsters gentrifying a neighborhood is probably the best thing happening in America right now. They are keeping sections of Detroit afloat. I have no problem with this. |
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cabeza
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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^^Steelrails:
What about you coming on thus board and criticizing everyone. You want everyone to conform to your bitter and twisted worldview. We arent here to make you happy, Steelrails.
unburden yourself and let go of the bitterness that torments your heart.
p.s. SR wears a fedora and fancies himself a hipster. Thats why he's getting carried away with this argument.
On closer inspection it was found he wasnt a hipster. Simply a bitter doofus in a fedora. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Still a symptom of the same problem- Other people exist to make you happy and follow your ideal of the world. These gentrifying hipsters shouldn't do that because you personally don't like what its done. It doesn't matter that its what THEY want to do or what the property owners want to do, all that matters is your concept of some neighborhood's "identity". Those hipsters don't exist to make you happy and support your notions of how a neighborhood should be. |
I think this stance forces you to forfeit your argument against the non-smoking tide sweeping across Korea. Just buck up and deal with it buster, you don't have a right to complain about non-smokers encroaching on your notions of how a bar should be.
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| I really can't understand people who would live in a foreign country and get so worked up over such a thing. I just don't get where that idea of being "wronged" through something like this comes from. |
So you run with the gentrifying hipsters in the first paragraph, then whip it right back around to your perceived ethnic issue in this one. Wow, great.
You seriously have to stop identifying ESL Cafe posters as one uniform glob of opinion, dude. Unless that is your intention, spinning the uniformity criticisms back on everyone, in which case I might as well hang up my boots and retire to the job discussion forum. |
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fezmond
Joined: 27 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:45 am Post subject: |
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| When (if) Steelrails leaves the peninsula, won't it be sad when he realises that he spent all that time arguing about absolutely nothing? |
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Mr. BlackCat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:01 am Post subject: |
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So, Steelie, will actually admit that your accusation against me that my position was ethnically motivated was baseless? Yeah, I didn't think so.
I'll repeat: If we were in LA right now and they were razing a whole area of Korean restaurants, noraebangs and hofs to make way for McD's and Walmart your position would be the exact opposite. You don't have convictions or beliefs, you have dogma and are yourself ethnically motivated.
I'll complain about anything I like, thankyouverymuch. You can disagree with me, but you can't attempt to shut down the conversation. As is your MO. Like I said, you don't like it, move along. Dave is making money off these sorts of conversations which bring traffic to this site. Who are you to tell him he's wrong. |
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dairyairy
Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
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| The people driving up the rents in my old neighbourhood in Canada weren't the immigrant families or young students. It was the hipsters who wanted to live the "authentic" lifestyle. Landlords took advantage of the situation, that's capitalism. Doesn't change the fact that the hood lost it's identity and became synonomous with spoiled wealthy kids. And terrible "art". |
Still a symptom of the same problem- Other people exist to make you happy and follow your ideal of the world.
I really can't understand people who would live in a foreign country and get so worked up over such a thing. |
Steelrails, do you understand that businesses, especially restaurants, do exist to serve the customers? No customers means no business means no money. It does matter what the public thinks and it does matter what individual customers think because they are the customer base.
If you think a couple of posters on a teacher's forum are "upset", just wait until that "Korean wave" that's sweeping through Itaewon starts buying out the halal restaurants and shops. They won't be happy. |
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byrddogs
Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| So, it's settled, Steelrails (typed it out as the dude obviously salivates when his name is mentioned) is living beyond his means as one of "us" (cheap, low salary/class NETs; cute how he throws in the "we" from time to time and even throws out the "just hang out drinking beers, smoking cigs, and watching the game" thing to seem normal) just to keep up with the Joneses. Whew, that only took six pages to find out it's ok to spend 이 mon won on a burger. Dude is a joke. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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I think this stance forces you to forfeit your argument against the non-smoking tide sweeping across Korea. Just buck up and deal with it buster, you don't have a right to complain about non-smokers encroaching on your notions of how a bar should be.
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There's a difference between enacting legislation that dictates what people do in private establishments and customers freely patronizing restaurants or purchasing stores and setting up other businesses.
There's an issue of rights of the business owner when it comes to the smoking issue. You have ZERO right to authentic foreign food in your neighborhood.
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So, Steelie, will actually admit that your accusation against me that my position was ethnically motivated was baseless? Yeah, I didn't think so.
I'll repeat: If we were in LA right now and they were razing a whole area of Korean restaurants, noraebangs and hofs to make way for McD's and Walmart your position would be the exact opposite. You don't have convictions or beliefs, you have dogma and are yourself ethnically motivated.
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Wrong. I've consistently expressed libertarian-leaning political views. I wouldn't care 1 iota about something like that. Unless it was some eminent domain issue, but then that's just because I don't like eminent domain.
But in a free market, those Korean business owners would have sold their property and some might even be the new franchisees for those McD's and so on.
I don't believe that McDonald's exists to make me happy and serve my interests about what constitutes a "diverse" neighborhood.
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| Like I said, you don't like it, move along. Dave is making money off these sorts of conversations which bring traffic to this site. Who are you to tell him he's wrong. |
Just because I think you're wrong, doesn't mean that we shouldn't discuss the issue. Come on, you know I like to argue so there's no way I'm ever for shutting down an argument.
As for ethnicity, if you changed the identities around, I do think back home you would support Koreatown. I'm not sure if things were reversed here in Korea, given your frustrations at the place.
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| Steelrails, do you understand that businesses, especially restaurants, do exist to serve the customers? |
100% wrong. Customers are the means to an end for the person operating the business. You can pretend otherwise, but that's the way it is. That is the nature of capitalism.
The restaurants exists to serve the interests of its ownership. If the ownership feels that its interests are not being met, then it ceases to operate the restaurant, regardless of what the customer desires. No, the restaurant owner does and his place do not exist to make me happy and serve me. The restaurant is a place where we engage in an agreed transaction. He serves food, I pay money. I am equal to other customers on the basis of money, if other customers offer more money for his services, why do I deserve to get my way, rather than them?
I'll say this, I guess I stand corrected here- It's not an ethnic entitlement mentality and believing Koreans exist to make you happy, its a general entitlement mentality and believing people everywhere exist to make you happy.
The restaurant is not your friend. The owner in most cases is not your friend. You may be friendly, but you are not friends. Expecting the restaurant owner to show some sort of "loyalty" to you, rather than some other customer, and in particular when its many more customers with more money, is just ridiculous.
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| is living beyond his means as one of "us" (cheap, low salary/class NETs; cute how he throws in the "we" from time to time and even throws out the "just hang out drinking beers, smoking cigs, and watching the game" thing to seem normal) just to keep up with the Joneses. |
If that were true I would have been kicked out of the country long ago for incurring debts. Having a 20 dollar burger is not some catastrophic hit to ones finances. |
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byrddogs
Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
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| is living beyond his means as one of "us" (cheap, low salary/class NETs; cute how he throws in the "we" from time to time and even throws out the "just hang out drinking beers, smoking cigs, and watching the game" thing to seem normal) just to keep up with the Joneses. |
If that were true I would have been kicked out of the country long ago for incurring debts. Having a 20 dollar burger is not some catastrophic hit to ones finances. |
Ding ding ding. Correct, it isn't. Continually doing so coupled with overspending on just about everything with a limited income will be. You are on the self "kicked out of the country" radar for keeping up with the debt ridden. LOL at your savings after 5 years. |
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Thomas G
Joined: 10 Dec 2013
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
I've been saying it over and over- If people want to "take the place back" they have to start spending and investing long-term into the place. Get your cheap friends to spend 20 bucks on a meal.
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Never going to happen. Most are here only temporarily and have no real plans of setting down roots. But people sure love to whine about every little thing on here.
Move to a completely new country, make no effort to assimilate and complain about the locals. Lifers and long term residents only make up a fraction of the foreigners here, might as well make the best of the little time you have in this country. |
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dairyairy
Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Thomas G wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
I've been saying it over and over- If people want to "take the place back" they have to start spending and investing long-term into the place. Get your cheap friends to spend 20 bucks on a meal.
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Never going to happen. Most are here only temporarily and have no real plans of setting down roots. But people sure love to whine about every little thing on here.
Move to a completely new country, make no effort to assimilate and complain about the locals. Lifers and long term residents only make up a fraction of the foreigners here, might as well make the best of the little time you have in this country. |
Going to Itaewon once a month, the weekend after payday, and enjoying some foreign food while you are there is hardly "making no effort to assimilate and complaining about the locals." One part of Seoul has some foreign restaurants and now many of those restaurants are being bought out and replaced by skin shops. Is that a good thing? |
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optik404
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| dairyairy wrote: |
| Thomas G wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
I've been saying it over and over- If people want to "take the place back" they have to start spending and investing long-term into the place. Get your cheap friends to spend 20 bucks on a meal.
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Never going to happen. Most are here only temporarily and have no real plans of setting down roots. But people sure love to whine about every little thing on here.
Move to a completely new country, make no effort to assimilate and complain about the locals. Lifers and long term residents only make up a fraction of the foreigners here, might as well make the best of the little time you have in this country. |
Going to Itaewon once a month, the weekend after payday, and enjoying some foreign food while you are there is hardly "making no effort to assimilate and complaining about the locals." One part of Seoul has some foreign restaurants and now many of those restaurants are being bought out and replaced by skin shops. Is that a good thing? |
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| You know, those "evil" skin shop chains that are always filled with Koreans who enjoy the products. How dare they be so darn popular. It's time for the Korean government to put a stop to all of them. No more bbcream! No more hairspray! No more skin packs! |
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dairyairy
Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:40 am Post subject: |
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Steelrails, you are claiming that businesses do not exist to serve customers, right? That they only exist to serve themselves?
You were taught that in college? Every college in the world teaches even ECON 101 students about supply chains and the value of customers to every business. That's every single business that exists is there to serve its customers. No business survives without serving the needs of customers. It's not an option; it's a requirement. Business 101.
Serious question, steelrails, where did you attend college and when did you graduate? Are you one of those teaching in Korea on a fake diploma? |
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dairyairy
Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:48 am Post subject: |
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| optik404 wrote: |
| dairyairy wrote: |
| Thomas G wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
I've been saying it over and over- If people want to "take the place back" they have to start spending and investing long-term into the place. Get your cheap friends to spend 20 bucks on a meal.
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Never going to happen. Most are here only temporarily and have no real plans of setting down roots. But people sure love to whine about every little thing on here.
Move to a completely new country, make no effort to assimilate and complain about the locals. Lifers and long term residents only make up a fraction of the foreigners here, might as well make the best of the little time you have in this country. |
Going to Itaewon once a month, the weekend after payday, and enjoying some foreign food while you are there is hardly "making no effort to assimilate and complaining about the locals." One part of Seoul has some foreign restaurants and now many of those restaurants are being bought out and replaced by skin shops. Is that a good thing? |
| Quote: |
| You know, those "evil" skin shop chains that are always filled with Koreans who enjoy the products. How dare they be so darn popular. It's time for the Korean government to put a stop to all of them. No more bbcream! No more hairspray! No more skin packs! |
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Where do you live that access to a skin care shop is a problem? That you support bulldozing the rare foreign restaurants in HBC and in Itaewon to get access to even more skin shops? |
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Mr. BlackCat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
I've consistently expressed libertarian-leaning political views.
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I don't believe that McDonald's exists to make me happy |
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Just because I think you're wrong, doesn't mean that we shouldn't discuss the issue. |
Oh god, the irony! It's so delicious it's rotting my teeth!
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As for ethnicity, if you changed the identities around, I do think back home you would support Koreatown. I'm not sure if things were reversed here in Korea, given your frustrations at the place.
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I sincerely don't understand that last part. You do realize we're in Korea and 99% of everything is Korean, if not directly then at least indirectly (Korean owners of Western franchises). Why would I worry about it the other way around here? Actually, isn't "the other way around" actually what we're talking about? Mass Korean commercial culture overtaking independent foreign commercial culture?
But whatever, it doesn't matter. You accused me of being ethnically motivated which was quickly shut down (not the first time), and now you say that I'm just frustrated with the place. To you, anyone with even the smallest hint of criticism of Korea is a racist and "basher". The place is either perfect or you're an unreasonable demagogue.
Again, the irony is succulent in it's deliciousness. |
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