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Parents - how are your kids doing at school?
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Dodge7



Joined: 21 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Newbie wrote:
Dodge7 wrote:
posters who do the one language one parent system, how are your kids' vocabulary? I imagine they lag severely behind kids their own age back home in the West.
I am not doing the one parent/language, I'm greedy and will have everyone speak English AT ALL TIMES when I'm around. I don't want to miss a word my child says--ever. Plus I don't want it to turn into a team English vs. team Korean under one roof.


Hi Dodge,

My daughter was born in Korea and we lived there the first two years of her life. I was never forceful with the "All English" thing, but like you (when I lived in Korea, not anymore) I was very anti-Korean. Hated the nationalism, hated the BS, and wanted my daughter to be Canadian first, Korean second. I think everyone around me knew that was my preference. Our plan was always to move back to Canada, so I wanted her English to be up to snuff. I didn't care when the in-laws, neighbours etc, spoke to her in Korean, but my wife, when it was just three of us, spoke mostly in English and that made me happy. I never told her this is what I wanted, and I never got upset if she did use Korean. But this is what she did. I regret this now.

We're in Canada now, my daughter is 5, and her Korean is just okay. I really wish we had my wife focus on more Korean when we were there, and since we've moved here. Now we're stuck playing catch up. My wife speaks Korean to her more often, but still not enough. I am frequently reminding her to do more. I read Korean kids' books to her now and use more Korean as well. Also she takes Korean lessons at the big Korean Catholic church in Toronto. But it would have been much better if there was more Korean in the house from the start.

Now that I'm in Canada, I'm not so anti-Korean. Part of this I know, is that it's much easier to be that way when I'm not faced with the rabid nationalism day in and day out, but most of it is maturity. I've really been able to step back and say, "Yes, Korea annoyed the hell out of me when I was there. The nationalism, the anger from Korean men, etc. But not all, not even most, Koreans are like that." I really want my daughter's Korean language skills to improve. Perhaps one day, when you move back West you might find yourself in my shoes: more forgiving of the annoyances of Korea, and more hopeful that your spawn has a better understanding of the language.

But then again, maybe not! Laughing

Well see, this is what I'm concerned about and you proved my point--only in reverse. You say now your kid has a few problems with Korean because you live in Canada and don't speak much Korean, or your kid isn't exposed to it as much. Same in Korea with me. My daughter won't be exposed to as much English as she would if she lived in the States, and so as you said, her English may just be "ok". I want it to be strong, therefore we will speak English 100% in the house. She'll pick up Korean for God's sake outside and at school.
We're going to be living here for the next decade so her Korean will be fine, it's her English ability, living in a non-English speaking country, that concerns me.
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Newbie



Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dodge7 wrote:


Well see, this is what I'm concerned about and you proved my point--only in reverse. You say now your kid has a few problems with Korean because you live in Canada and don't speak much Korean, or your kid isn't exposed to it as much. Same in Korea with me. My daughter won't be exposed to as much English as she would if she lived in the States, and so as you said, her English may just be "ok". I want it to be strong, therefore we will speak English 100% in the house. She'll pick up Korean for God's sake outside and at school.
We're going to be living here for the next decade so her Korean will be fine, it's her English ability, living in a non-English speaking country, that concerns me.


Fair enough. And that reasoning sounds a lot better than:

Quote:
I am not doing the one parent/language, I'm greedy and will have everyone speak English AT ALL TIMES when I'm around. I don't want to miss a word my child says--ever.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dodge7 wrote:
Newbie wrote:
Dodge7 wrote:
posters who do the one language one parent system, how are your kids' vocabulary? I imagine they lag severely behind kids their own age back home in the West.
I am not doing the one parent/language, I'm greedy and will have everyone speak English AT ALL TIMES when I'm around. I don't want to miss a word my child says--ever. Plus I don't want it to turn into a team English vs. team Korean under one roof.


Hi Dodge,

My daughter was born in Korea and we lived there the first two years of her life. I was never forceful with the "All English" thing, but like you (when I lived in Korea, not anymore) I was very anti-Korean. Hated the nationalism, hated the BS, and wanted my daughter to be Canadian first, Korean second. I think everyone around me knew that was my preference. Our plan was always to move back to Canada, so I wanted her English to be up to snuff. I didn't care when the in-laws, neighbours etc, spoke to her in Korean, but my wife, when it was just three of us, spoke mostly in English and that made me happy. I never told her this is what I wanted, and I never got upset if she did use Korean. But this is what she did. I regret this now.

We're in Canada now, my daughter is 5, and her Korean is just okay. I really wish we had my wife focus on more Korean when we were there, and since we've moved here. Now we're stuck playing catch up. My wife speaks Korean to her more often, but still not enough. I am frequently reminding her to do more. I read Korean kids' books to her now and use more Korean as well. Also she takes Korean lessons at the big Korean Catholic church in Toronto. But it would have been much better if there was more Korean in the house from the start.

Now that I'm in Canada, I'm not so anti-Korean. Part of this I know, is that it's much easier to be that way when I'm not faced with the rabid nationalism day in and day out, but most of it is maturity. I've really been able to step back and say, "Yes, Korea annoyed the hell out of me when I was there. The nationalism, the anger from Korean men, etc. But not all, not even most, Koreans are like that." I really want my daughter's Korean language skills to improve. Perhaps one day, when you move back West you might find yourself in my shoes: more forgiving of the annoyances of Korea, and more hopeful that your spawn has a better understanding of the language.

But then again, maybe not! Laughing

Well see, this is what I'm concerned about and you proved my point--only in reverse. You say now your kid has a few problems with Korean because you live in Canada and don't speak much Korean, or your kid isn't exposed to it as much. Same in Korea with me. My daughter won't be exposed to as much English as she would if she lived in the States, and so as you said, her English may just be "ok". I want it to be strong, therefore we will speak English 100% in the house. She'll pick up Korean for God's sake outside and at school.
We're going to be living here for the next decade so her Korean will be fine, it's her English ability, living in a non-English speaking country, that concerns me.


Now that is better said Dodge. It now makes sense and I can see your point.

I would say however that if you plan on staying in Korea for the next decade, you should learn some Korean. I mean your daughter will speak it more than she will English for the simple fact that she will be with her mother and her grandparants, uncles, aunts, cousins who all speak Korean!
In such a context learning Korean would be useful to you no? I mean even at a conversational level.

Just my opinion of course.

To boost your daughter's English is something I understand in your setting. However, there are many ways to do this (I am sure you are aware of a lot of them).

Good luck to you guys Dodge.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dodge7 wrote:
posters who do the one language one parent system, how are your kids' vocabulary? I imagine they lag severely behind kids their own age back home in the West.
I am not doing the one parent/language, I'm greedy and will have everyone speak English AT ALL TIMES when I'm around. I don't want to miss a word my child says--ever. Plus I don't want it to turn into a team English vs. team Korean under one roof.


It's funny, because we often intend to do the one parent, one language thing - but it usually defaults to what you're mentioning.

My wife will be speaking in korean to my daughter (5), but as soon as I walk in the room, they'll switch over to English. They may finish off the subject in korean, but a new one will often be started in English.

FWIW, my daughter is fluent for her age in both. We just came back from a 2 week trip to NY, and she was on par with the two girls (6,7) we were staying with (except in spelling).
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fosterman



Joined: 16 Nov 2011

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

any parent who is worrying about their kids being bi-lingual, don't.
just look at the hispanic , Korean, chinese kids back home.
they are bi-lingual and went to school with us.
and I have many Bi-lingual friends growing up and they told me they never studied their mothers language, they just grew up speaking it.

it's not hard for your kid to learn two languages. it's very easy
I should know I have done it. my daughter is perfectly bi-lingual.
well, she thinks like a Korean as she went into local school here.
but she is fluent in English. to be honest with you though
her grammar and writing proficiency isn't the same as my brothers
kids back in the states. but then again his kids don't speak two language and were not raised in Korea. but my daughters is pretty damn good for someone who is in Korean school. and it will only keep getting better.
when she is 22 and out of college, it will all be fine.
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Dodge7



Joined: 21 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
Dodge7 wrote:
posters who do the one language one parent system, how are your kids' vocabulary? I imagine they lag severely behind kids their own age back home in the West.
I am not doing the one parent/language, I'm greedy and will have everyone speak English AT ALL TIMES when I'm around. I don't want to miss a word my child says--ever. Plus I don't want it to turn into a team English vs. team Korean under one roof.


It's funny, because we often intend to do the one parent, one language thing - but it usually defaults to what you're mentioning.

My wife will be speaking in korean to my daughter (5), but as soon as I walk in the room, they'll switch over to English. They may finish off the subject in korean, but a new one will often be started in English.

FWIW, my daughter is fluent for her age in both. We just came back from a 2 week trip to NY, and she was on par with the two girls (6,7) we were staying with (except in spelling).

That's good to hear! Of course at that age it's not hard to be fluent, it's when she in her teens that I worry about. But we should have moved back to the states by then anyway and it will pick up quickly after that.
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Dodge7



Joined: 21 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PatrickGHBusan wrote:
Dodge7 wrote:
Newbie wrote:
Dodge7 wrote:
posters who do the one language one parent system, how are your kids' vocabulary? I imagine they lag severely behind kids their own age back home in the West.
I am not doing the one parent/language, I'm greedy and will have everyone speak English AT ALL TIMES when I'm around. I don't want to miss a word my child says--ever. Plus I don't want it to turn into a team English vs. team Korean under one roof.


Hi Dodge,

My daughter was born in Korea and we lived there the first two years of her life. I was never forceful with the "All English" thing, but like you (when I lived in Korea, not anymore) I was very anti-Korean. Hated the nationalism, hated the BS, and wanted my daughter to be Canadian first, Korean second. I think everyone around me knew that was my preference. Our plan was always to move back to Canada, so I wanted her English to be up to snuff. I didn't care when the in-laws, neighbours etc, spoke to her in Korean, but my wife, when it was just three of us, spoke mostly in English and that made me happy. I never told her this is what I wanted, and I never got upset if she did use Korean. But this is what she did. I regret this now.

We're in Canada now, my daughter is 5, and her Korean is just okay. I really wish we had my wife focus on more Korean when we were there, and since we've moved here. Now we're stuck playing catch up. My wife speaks Korean to her more often, but still not enough. I am frequently reminding her to do more. I read Korean kids' books to her now and use more Korean as well. Also she takes Korean lessons at the big Korean Catholic church in Toronto. But it would have been much better if there was more Korean in the house from the start.

Now that I'm in Canada, I'm not so anti-Korean. Part of this I know, is that it's much easier to be that way when I'm not faced with the rabid nationalism day in and day out, but most of it is maturity. I've really been able to step back and say, "Yes, Korea annoyed the hell out of me when I was there. The nationalism, the anger from Korean men, etc. But not all, not even most, Koreans are like that." I really want my daughter's Korean language skills to improve. Perhaps one day, when you move back West you might find yourself in my shoes: more forgiving of the annoyances of Korea, and more hopeful that your spawn has a better understanding of the language.

But then again, maybe not! Laughing

Well see, this is what I'm concerned about and you proved my point--only in reverse. You say now your kid has a few problems with Korean because you live in Canada and don't speak much Korean, or your kid isn't exposed to it as much. Same in Korea with me. My daughter won't be exposed to as much English as she would if she lived in the States, and so as you said, her English may just be "ok". I want it to be strong, therefore we will speak English 100% in the house. She'll pick up Korean for God's sake outside and at school.
We're going to be living here for the next decade so her Korean will be fine, it's her English ability, living in a non-English speaking country, that concerns me.


Now that is better said Dodge. It now makes sense and I can see your point.

I would say however that if you plan on staying in Korea for the next decade, you should learn some Korean. I mean your daughter will speak it more than she will English for the simple fact that she will be with her mother and her grandparants, uncles, aunts, cousins who all speak Korean!
In such a context learning Korean would be useful to you no? I mean even at a conversational level.

Just my opinion of course.

To boost your daughter's English is something I understand in your setting. However, there are many ways to do this (I am sure you are aware of a lot of them).

Good luck to you guys Dodge.

I wish I had the desire to learn Korean. I have two jobs and in my spare time I have to relax. I will just pick up Korean as I go, which is about 5 new words a week. If I ever get conversational it will clearly be by accident. And by the time my girl starts talking I will spend every bit of free time talking with her in English so that makes even less time to learn Korean.
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T-J



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Dodge, what happens when she has a friend come over on the weekend or has a birthday party? Do you restrict her relationships to people that can speak English?
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fosterman



Joined: 16 Nov 2011

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dodge, I understand your concern of not missing a word spoken by your daughter being able to understand everything being said.
but you work hard, you are out of the house a lot, once your daughter starts
elementary school, around the 3rd grade, you can forget about your wife and daughter speaking English around you.. it will just seem weird for her to use English with her mum as she will think and feel like a Korean by that age
and will want to express her feelings, her school life, her friends all in her native tongue which will be English. good luck with fighting that. I tried.
failed every time,
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Dodge7



Joined: 21 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T-J wrote:

Dodge, what happens when she has a friend come over on the weekend or has a birthday party? Do you restrict her relationships to people that can speak English?


Absolutely. I will have her try to teach her friends English if her friends are over.
LOL come on man, I think I can let slide if that situation comes up--she can speak Korean to her her Korean friends. And when we are out and the dduk bboki lady asks my girl what she wants she can reply back in Korean, too. It's only during family time when I want English to be spoken or when we are out and not interacting with any other Koreans.
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T-J



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dodge7 wrote:
T-J wrote:

Dodge, what happens when she has a friend come over on the weekend or has a birthday party? Do you restrict her relationships to people that can speak English?


Absolutely. I will have her try to teach her friends English if her friends are over.
LOL come on man, I think I can let slide if that situation comes up--she can speak Korean to her her Korean friends. And when we are out and the dduk bboki lady asks my girl what she wants she can reply back in Korean, too. It's only during family time when I want English to be spoken or when we are out and not interacting with any other Koreans.



Yet you made it pretty clear when you said,

Dodge7 wrote:

I'm greedy and will have everyone speak English AT ALL TIMES when I'm around. I don't want to miss a word my child says--ever.


Explain to me how that works again.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Subtle racism towards and not respecting the culture of 1/2 of the origin of a human being, while living in that country of origin.

Yeah, I see good things happening here.

The only advice I could give is "just be real" Trying to make an issue of Korean or English too much one way or the other is just going to drive the kid in the exact opposite of the way you intend (90% chance) OR drive them wayyyyy overboard to your side (10%) and this will result in some sort of destructive behavior.

Think racist redneck dad that for some reason married a black lady. Every day he complains about blacks and his mixed kid over hears it. Do you see good things happening there?

Just be real. Speak English when you feel like it, which is 90% of the time, and the 10% of the time you use Korean out of habit, be cool with it. Don't be some bonehead immigrant dad who has to put 1000 won in the "Korean Jar" at home because you accidentally spoke Korean in your own house while living in Korea.

For goodness sakes. What do you think the child will do when they become a teenager? Probably do everything they can to date some Korean kid and get away from bitter old dad. Korean kid will probably be the exact opposite of dad or what dad complains about- Some pink wearing, KPop loving, Hagwon goin, SKY dream havin, Bibimbop eatin straight from the UriNara Temple Kbrat, either that or some Korean guy 5 years older than her who comes from a mafia family whom she met at a bar she went to while underaged.

But if you're chill and natural, then they'll probably pursue healthy relationships and be open to people of any ethnicity. They'll be open to studying overseas and connecting with their waygook roots and discovering that part of their heritage. They'll be curious about it, maybe even take some pride in it.

Unless you move back, that's what will happen. Move back and odds are they'll grow up typical American (or whatever).

But I've seen mixed-Asian kids back home who definately hang more with Asians and lean towards the Asian side of things. Sometimes you get weird responses from the parents- Knew a half-Taiwanese half-American girl. Dated a white guy, mom (Taiwanese) was fine. But she hung out with a number of Asians and her next boyfriend was Taiwanese-American. Taiwanese mom flipped out, wondering why she would do such a thing. Dad (American) didn't care, thought it was cool that she was open to her heritage and all and could tell that the boyfriend was pretty much an All-American kid anyway (football and cars). That relationship lasted an extra year out of spite towards mom and her daughter not wanting to be a "self-hating Asian".

As a cross-heritage child I would heartily recommend the "salad bowl" approach where you child gets to pick and choose what they wish to adapt or not. The more unnatural and forced you try to make it, the more things will just get messed up.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great post, Steel.

It really comes down to this for me - be involved and loving. The details will work themselves out.
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s.tickbeat



Joined: 21 Feb 2010
Location: Gimhae

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was growing up, my mom spoke English only and my dad's first language was French. Most of my dad's side of the family spoke very little or no English, and my half-brother and half-sister spoke none. Thus, when I was learning and developing language, I learned the two (French and English) together.

It drove my mom crazy. She would go fucking nuts listening to me read a book out loud in French, for example. But she went into a purple rage to hear my father and I speaking French near her. She couldn't stand to not understand what we were saying.

So, when my sisters were born, my dad refrained from teaching them any French beyond the basics: numbers and colors. They still understand French pretty well, but they're not fluent at all. Limiting their use of the language in the home had a lot of consequences. For one, they just aren't as close to our dad, or to our dad's side of the family. They can barely communicate with our grandparents, and have developed a resentment towards our mother for limiting their possibilities.

Seriously, to the mixed families here in Korea: learn the fucking language. Placing limits how your children express themselves, or on how your spouse and your kids relate to eachother, is just fucking awful. Beyond being lazy and selfish, you're also having a damaging impact on your family. Rather than being open, accepting, loving, and nurturing you become closed, limiting, rejecting, and oppressive.
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PatrickGHBusan



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
Great post, Steel.

It really comes down to this for me - be involved and loving. The details will work themselves out.


Totally true.
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