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chellovek
Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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 Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| chellovek wrote: |
| nora wrote: |
http://www.oecd.org/berlin/42675407.pdf
A study from the OECD on leisure time. Points to note:
1. Korea has been working less since 1985.
2. Koreans between the ages of 15-24 use 24% of their day as "leisure time." This is 3% lower than the OECD average.
3. Koreans between the ages of 25-44 use 22% of their day as "leisure time." This is 2% HIGHER than the OECD average.
4. Koreans between the ages of 45-64 use 25% of their time as "leisure time," which is the same as the OECD average.
This means that the argument that Korean workers have less time than other countries is false. In fact, they have 2% more time.
If the discussion is about children (15-24), they DO have less free time, which is something that I don't think anyone would really question. We've all seen the lives kids here lead. They are busy, to say the least.
A few other points on television specifically:
1. Watching television is the preferred activity amongst ALL the OECD countries. Koreans spend 35% of their free time watching tv, which is 1% LOWER than the OECD average. USA is 44%, UK is 41%, Australia is 41%, Canada is 34%, and New Zealand is the winner at 25%. Also, if anyone has a hard-on about Japan, they spend 47% of their time watching tv.
2. If you want to talk about sports, Koreans spend 7% of their time playing sports, same as the OECD average. Of the previously cited countries, only Canada plays more sports at 8%.
So, the statistics show that Koreans watch LESS TV than the OECD average, and of us English teachers, everyone except Canada and NZ. While there is no specific information on reading, we can also point out that Koreans play sports at higher levels than all of us, save the Canadians (by 1%). |
Stop derailing the thread with statistics and attempts to put things on a factual basis.
How about the quality of programmes viewed? I bet K-television isn't as good as the BBC! A-ha! How are you going to establish the level of quality of TV and various alternative activities? You can't! |
Or indeed, to put it on less of a "Dave's 'lol'SL" basis, just throwing around statistics proves nothing per se in this instance apart from refuting the daftness up-thread. I could spend 50% of my free time watching high quality documentaries compared to another fellow who spend 25% of his free time watching mind-rotting rubbish.
To echo an earlier sentiment on here, watching TV doesn't necessarily mean you're a couch potato watching nonesense. Comparing what x nation watches in hours according to the OECD compared to y nation is mere urinating in the wind. Only ask yourself this- what are you watching that is so great?
You could say the same for reading. Personally I'm always disappointed in adults who says they have read Harry Potter. It's a series of books for kids. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| This means that the argument that Korean workers have less time than other countries is false. In fact, they have 2% more time. |
Are you seriously trying to use these statistics to tell us that Koreans have more free time than the Spanish, or Italians or French or even people from the UK? For starters British people get and take A minimum of 4 weeks vacation a year on top of national holidays, how much do Koreans have? the French work a 35 hour week. all I can say is that if Koreans have more free time than any other country they're very good at hiding it. I've never met a group of people who moan so much about how hard they have to work. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Are you seriously trying to use these statistics to tell us that Koreans have more free time than the Spanish, or Italians or French or even people from the UK? For starters British people get and take A minimum of 4 weeks vacation a year on top of national holidays, how much do Koreans have? the French work a 35 hour week. all I can say is that if Koreans have more free time than any other country they're very good at hiding it. I've never met a group of people who moan so much about how hard they have to work. |
Moaning about working and actually working are two different things. Plenty of people moan about how much they have to work and how late they have to stay. They wouldn't have to work overtime if they weren't playing WoW or watching youtube videos. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| fermentation wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Are you seriously trying to use these statistics to tell us that Koreans have more free time than the Spanish, or Italians or French or even people from the UK? For starters British people get and take A minimum of 4 weeks vacation a year on top of national holidays, how much do Koreans have? the French work a 35 hour week. all I can say is that if Koreans have more free time than any other country they're very good at hiding it. I've never met a group of people who moan so much about how hard they have to work. |
Moaning about working and actually working are two different things. Plenty of people moan about how much they have to work and how late they have to stay. They wouldn't have to work overtime if they weren't playing WoW or watching youtube videos. |
They're expected to stay at work for long hours and put in appearances. They may not have much work to do all the time, but are expected to be there no matter how stupid it may. Sometimes, it's mandatory and sometimes it's a group pressure thing to stay. It would be more logical to work more expediently for 8 hours and go home rather than spread that work over hours in a day. But, that's just the way they do it here. |
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nora
Joined: 14 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| This means that the argument that Korean workers have less time than other countries is false. In fact, they have 2% more time. |
Are you seriously trying to use these statistics to tell us that Koreans have more free time than the Spanish, or Italians or French or even people from the UK? For starters British people get and take A minimum of 4 weeks vacation a year on top of national holidays, how much do Koreans have? the French work a 35 hour week. all I can say is that if Koreans have more free time than any other country they're very good at hiding it. I've never met a group of people who moan so much about how hard they have to work. |
Read the survey. The survey SPECIFICALLY points out that the French spend more of their leisure time than ANYONE sleeping, eating, and drinking. Korea spends the second (to Japan) most time on personal care services - going to the spa, taking showers, etc. than other countries.
Finally, the numbers are a PERCENTAGE of their available free time. Yes, the French and Spanish are sloths who work very few hours. BUT, of their AVAILABLE FREE TIME, Koreans devote less time to watching TV than others. , while the French and Spanish devote lots of their free time to eating drinking and sleeping. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| It's a pity Korea seems to be missing from the one table that would actually tell us how much free time they get. The one on working hours a week |
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Mr. BlackCat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| This means that the argument that Korean workers have less time than other countries is false. In fact, they have 2% more time. |
Are you seriously trying to use these statistics to tell us that Koreans have more free time than the Spanish, or Italians or French or even people from the UK? For starters British people get and take A minimum of 4 weeks vacation a year on top of national holidays, how much do Koreans have? the French work a 35 hour week. all I can say is that if Koreans have more free time than any other country they're very good at hiding it. I've never met a group of people who moan so much about how hard they have to work. |
Yesterday, my co-teacher literally put her head on her desk after lunch and slept the whole afternoon while I planned all our lessons for this week, made the materials and taught an afternoon class. When I woke her up to leave she grumbled about being 'so busy' and stayed late to finish her work. Last I saw, she was logging back into one of her internet shopping sites. I've been in Korea long enough to see through this nonsense of 'busy-ness'. Here's a stat: Koreans are #1 at complaining about being busy.
Being at work and working are two VERY different things here. Same with 'studying' and 'actually studying'. Oftentimes, sitting at a desk= work/study, whereas we would consider playing video games as leisure. The French, Spanish and others may spend less time at work, but that has nothing to do with how much work they actually get done. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes possibly but the usual definition of 'free time' is time when you're not at work. How much work you do while you're at work is another question |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
Yesterday, my co-teacher literally put her head on her desk after lunch and slept the whole afternoon while I planned all our lessons for this week, made the materials and taught an afternoon class. When I woke her up to leave she grumbled about being 'so busy' and stayed late to finish her work. Last I saw, she was logging back into one of her internet shopping sites. I've been in Korea long enough to see through this nonsense of 'busy-ness'. Here's a stat: Koreans are #1 at complaining about being busy.
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Ain't that the truth. I've seen enough people playing video games at work to know what "being busy" means here. It was even worse in the army. Officers sleep, read the paper, watch TV, and complain about how busy they are. Over course they also clock in for overtime because they need that taxpayer money to sit around and do nothing all day. They clock in for overtime then go home. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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Someone in my office is very busy. She is busy telling everyone how busy she is...
I'm a contract-to-contract employee and on different rules from the regular employees, but all of the regulars are, according to company rules, permitted to leave the office at 5:30. However, there is also an unwritten rule that says they can't actually leave until at least 6:30. So every day at 6, I get to walk out, feeling like a total *beep*. Thankfully, everyone's busy watching YouTube videos or browsing shopping sites to notice.  |
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mike1two
Joined: 20 Aug 2012
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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From BBC News Magazine. May 23, 2012.
"Chill winds sweeping the world economy have left many people out of a job, and some of those still working have been asked to worker longer hours for the same pay. Recently the UK government urged the country to work harder, after slipping back into recession. So which countries put the most hours in?
A look at the average annual hours worked per person in selected countries puts South Korea top with a whopping 2,193 hours, followed by Chile on 2,068.
British workers clock up 1,647 hours and Germans 1,408 - putting them at the bottom of the table, above only the Netherlands.
Greek workers have had a bad press recently but, as we reported in February, they work longer hours than any other Europeans. Their average of 2,017 hours a year puts them third in the international ranking, based on figures compiled by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD)." |
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Mr. BlackCat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:40 am Post subject: |
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| mike1two wrote: |
From BBC News Magazine. May 23, 2012.
"Chill winds sweeping the world economy have left many people out of a job, and some of those still working have been asked to worker longer hours for the same pay. Recently the UK government urged the country to work harder, after slipping back into recession. So which countries put the most hours in?
A look at the average annual hours worked per person in selected countries puts South Korea top with a whopping 2,193 hours, followed by Chile on 2,068.
British workers clock up 1,647 hours and Germans 1,408 - putting them at the bottom of the table, above only the Netherlands.
Greek workers have had a bad press recently but, as we reported in February, they work longer hours than any other Europeans. Their average of 2,017 hours a year puts them third in the international ranking, based on figures compiled by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD)." |
Koreans also put more hours into learning English than anyone in Asia (outside maybe Japan). Yet a homeless Cambodian child selling books on the street has a better level of English than the average Korean.
Don't get me wrong, I think the way Korea has transformed itself in the past 50 years is remarkable and speaks to an astounding level of dedication. At the same time I could easily mock North America's culture of entitlement. It's just in the language, which affects these statistics. Maybe some of us foreigners only sit at work 8 hours and then go home and play video games for 2 hours. But how is that different than the Korean who sits at work for 12 hours but plays for 6? Besides the fact that we don't try to prove otherwise to anyone within earshot, that is. |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
| Don't get me wrong, I think the way Korea has transformed itself in the past 50 years is remarkable and speaks to an astounding level of dedication. |
They had a great deal of help mate. They didn't do it by themselves. South Korea is as much an American success story as it is a Korean one. Not one thing that modernized Korea was invented by a Korean. They are Western inventions brought here (largely) by the United States. The States had a vested interest in South Korea being a success story as it was the first Cold War conflict zone and Washington had vested interests here. Massive transfer of Western technology and know-how, and tariff free access to the world's largest market (while allowing Seoul to place sky high tariffs on US producrs). Billions of dollars in investments etc.
So while they picked up the ball and ran with it, it couldn't have been done without the West. They accomplished very little in 5000 years, then suddenly something happened fifty years ago. Can you guess what that something is?
North and South Korea are so very different for a reason. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Smithington wrote: |
| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
| Don't get me wrong, I think the way Korea has transformed itself in the past 50 years is remarkable and speaks to an astounding level of dedication. |
They had a great deal of help mate. They didn't do it by themselves. South Korea is as much an American success story as it is a Korean one. Not one thing that modernized Korea was invented by a Korean. They are Western inventions brought here (largely) by the United States. The States had a vested interest in South Korea being a success story as it was the first Cold War conflict zone and Washington had vested interests here. Massive transfer of Western technology and know-how, and tariff free access to the world's largest market (while allowing Seoul to place sky high tariffs on US producrs). Billions of dollars in investments etc.
So while they picked up the ball and ran with it, it couldn't have been done without the West. They accomplished very little in 5000 years, then suddenly something happened fifty years ago. Can you guess what that something is?
North and South Korea are so very different for a reason. |
Every nation around the world has had access to inventions and whatnot, some haven't improved too much, some have improved dramatically.
That difference in success is credited largely to the Koreans.
Countries around the globe have experienced American investment and dollars being pumped into them. Some thrived. Some have listed about aimlessly.
It took the Korean people actually moving and doing stuff to make it all happen. So I think its more a Korean success story than an American one, but it certainly is an American one.
Of course one could say the same thing about bombed out and depleted Western Europe whose economies might not look so rosy if they were forced to fully pay the cost of their own defense and maintaining an effective force against the Soviets for 50 years.
Also, if one is going to say Korea's current success is "owed" to what happened 50 years ago, then when it comes to countries that "failed" in spite of U.S. investment that their failure is the fault of the U.S. and not the people of that land? Either the U.S. is responsible for both success and failure of the land or the people are. But the U.S. can't get all the credit while taking none of the blame or vice-versa (as Korean nationalists tend to do). |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Smithington wrote: |
| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
| Don't get me wrong, I think the way Korea has transformed itself in the past 50 years is remarkable and speaks to an astounding level of dedication. |
They had a great deal of help mate. They didn't do it by themselves. South Korea is as much an American success story as it is a Korean one. Not one thing that modernized Korea was invented by a Korean. They are Western inventions brought here (largely) by the United States. The States had a vested interest in South Korea being a success story as it was the first Cold War conflict zone and Washington had vested interests here. Massive transfer of Western technology and know-how, and tariff free access to the world's largest market (while allowing Seoul to place sky high tariffs on US producrs). Billions of dollars in investments etc.
So while they picked up the ball and ran with it, it couldn't have been done without the West. They accomplished very little in 5000 years, then suddenly something happened fifty years ago. Can you guess what that something is?
North and South Korea are so very different for a reason. |
I do agree with you, but I'd say it's half the reason South Korea is so successful. The other half is North Korea. If Korea were united after the Korean War, most likely they'd still be living like the did in 1939 and still be one of the poorest countries in the world. |
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