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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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 Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| You got me again. Maybe I accidently missed the posts were you were self-effacing and full of wit and only read the ones where you sounded like a miserable *beep*. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:03 am Post subject: |
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oh for God's sake, lighten up people.
This story was just funny because of how Dodge related it and because it was Dodge himself that was involved.
Finding a dead frog in your box of grapes means you go back to the store & ask for an exchange.
As for the language issue, it is important on many levels, not the least of which is knowing the local language WILL solve a lot of the issues foreigners have to deal with.
Glad Dodge got his grape issue fixed and hope they were delish.
oh and TJ was pretty much dead on target. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:16 am Post subject: |
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As for the language issue, it is important on many levels, not the least of which is knowing the local language WILL solve a lot of the issues foreigners have to deal with.
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Yes knowing the local language is very important on so many levels. but not this one. On this occasion, knowing the local language was not important as the box of grapes, the dead frog inside them and the fact that the woman remembered Dodge from before were sufficient enough to convey the message.
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| oh and TJ was pretty much dead on target. |
No he wasn't. he was wrong. just as you were. Dodge, byrrdogs, Steelrails and countless others were right on this occasion. Not you or TJ |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:41 am Post subject: |
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I beg to differ.
Had Dodge been more fluent in Korean he could have made his point more clearly and likely had gotten things done quicker.
Was the ajuma being an idiot in this case? That is very likely.
Would she have done that had dodge spoken decent Korean and been able to converse with her...unlikely because she would have been showed up in her own language right away.
Anyway, problem solved, box was exchanged and it made for yet another entertaining Dodge story. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:31 am Post subject: |
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| Had Dodge been more fluent in Korean he could have made his point more clearly and likely had gotten things done quicker. |
No you're wrong. As soon as Dodge presented the box and showed the woman the dead frog (which he would have had to do however fluent his Korean) the message was effectively conveyed. Dodge quite clearly states that from then on the woman's argument was about the frog not being significant enough to change the box for which again would have been the same no matter how fluent his Korean. The woman's problem was that she thought the dead frog was not a good enough reason to change the box. It was not a language problem |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| Dodge quite clearly states that from then on the woman's argument was about the frog not being significant enough to change the box for which again would have been the same no matter how fluent his Korean. |
And what evidence do we have that that is what she was saying? By his own admission it was extensive and he likely didn't follow it.
For all we know she was saying "You didn't find that in my grapes, you're a thief" |
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littlelisa
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:00 am Post subject: |
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Seems to me TJ and Patrick are not saying that the message wasn't clear and that more linguistic skill was needed to get the message across. Seems to me that they were saying that more linguistic skill will change the way the shopkeeper reacted to the same situation, not that it was an issue of intelligibility. Kind of the way that people's reaction will be different based on how you're dressed. Using really good Korean will inspire more respect, something that was obviously lacking for her to be speaking to him in banmal to begin with in this situation. It's true that you get more respect when your Korean is better in many cases. If she had respected him more, she would have changed the grapes more quickly without issues.
Anyway the grapes are changed and it's moot now. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:07 am Post subject: |
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Seems to me TJ and Patrick are not saying that the message wasn't clear and that more linguistic skill was needed to get the message across. Seems to me that they were saying that more linguistic skill will change the way the shopkeeper reacted to the same situation, not that it was an issue of intelligibility. Kind of the way that people's reaction will be different based on how you're dressed. Using really good Korean will inspire more respect, something that was obviously lacking for her to be speaking to him in banmal to begin with in this situation. It's true that you get more respect when your Korean is better in many cases. If she had respected him more, she would have changed the grapes more quickly without issues. |
If that's true then TJ and PGHB are implying that Koreans are prejudiced against people who can't speak their language fluently. The message was understood but just because it wasn't conveyed in perfect Korean by
someone who was obviously a foreigner, the woman decided to refuse to change the box. I personally have never come across this kind of prejudice in my time in Korea with my limited knowledge of the language and I'm
surprised if TJ and PGHB believe it exists. I'd like to think it's not widespread |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:33 am Post subject: |
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No that is not what I was saying Ed.
It is all rather simple: speak better Korean and you get understood better by Koreans in all situations, are able to better make your point and avoid missunderstanding or the odd idiot who will take advantage of you because you do not understand the language.
That's all. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| That's just common sense. It's also, however, common sense to offer a refund or exchange for grapes with a dead frog in the box. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:39 am Post subject: |
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No that is not what I was saying Ed.
It is all rather simple: speak better Korean and you get understood better by Koreans in all situations, are able to better make your point and avoid missunderstanding or the odd idiot who will take advantage of you because you do not understand the language.
That's all. |
Yes generally that's true. But it wasn't true in the specific situation we were discussing. That's all |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:46 am Post subject: |
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MY GOD PEOPLE PLEASE READ THE POSTS THAT I MADE. MY POINT WAS NOT THAT HIS LINGUISTIC SKILLS WERE INSUFFICIANT TO CONVEY THERE WAS A FROG IN HIS GRAPES.
I STATED THAT HE DIDN'T COMMUNICATE THAT FACT IN A SUBTLE MANNER WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE EASILY ACCOMPLISHED IF HE HADN't SIMPLY STAMERED 'FROG. CHANGE PLEASE.'
IF HE HAD SAID NOTHING IT WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER.
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:53 am Post subject: |
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MY GOD PEOPLE PLEASE READ THE POSTS THAT I MADE. MY POINT WAS NOT THAT HIS LINGUISTIC SKILLS WERE INSUFFICIANT TO CONVEY THERE WAS A FROG IN HIS GRAPES.
I STATED THAT HE DIDN'T COMMUNICATE THAT FACT IN A SUBTLE MANNER WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE EASILY ACCOMPLISHED IF HE HADN't SIMPLY STAMERED 'FROG. CHANGE PLEASE.'
IF HE HAD SAID NOTHING IT WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER.
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So do you believe if he had told the woman there was a frog in the box in perfect Korean she would have changed it without an argument and that she only decided to argue about it because his Korean wasn't good enough? |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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MY GOD PEOPLE PLEASE READ THE POSTS THAT I MADE. MY POINT WAS NOT THAT HIS LINGUISTIC SKILLS WERE INSUFFICIANT TO CONVEY THERE WAS A FROG IN HIS GRAPES.
I STATED THAT HE DIDN'T COMMUNICATE THAT FACT IN A SUBTLE MANNER WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE EASILY ACCOMPLISHED IF HE HADN't SIMPLY STAMERED 'FROG. CHANGE PLEASE.'
IF HE HAD SAID NOTHING IT WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER.
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So do you believe if he had told the woman there was a frog in the box in perfect Korean she would have changed it without an argument and that she only decided to argue about it because his Korean wasn't good enough? |
You asked TJ but I will answer: yes the odds are it would have gone a million times better. Yes it is possible she decided to haggle-argue because she had a foreigner in front of her who was barely able to communicate and perhaps she felt she had no time to waste and had other customers in her store. Had he spoken good Korean, odds are this would not have happened the same way. She said "wae" to him which is bloody rude and there is no way that happens if he spoke good korean to her right off the bat because there were other customers in the store. |
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highstreet
Joined: 13 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| I have had no problem exchanging or returning stuff. Found a bee in a bag of grapes once and the cashier exchanged it after I pointed it out to her. Also, returned a bike after a month, because it kept having issues. They offered to repair it or exchange for the same one, but in the end they gave me my money back. |
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