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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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 Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| sirius black wrote: |
You can't run a country forever like that but it helped our country grow. EVERY nation that has ruled its era or been one of the major ones, Roman, Holy Roman Empire, British, Spanish, French empires, USSR and the USA has risen using slave and/or cheap labor. America is no different.
Not saying its right, its just a fact of history. |
Why should 'ruling one's era' be something to which one aspires? You boast about America's success in defense of your philosophy, but then qualify it with monstrosity. Why is a small, peaceful, relatively homogeneous nation with a reasonable standard of living not enough? |
You're saying that. I think you misunderstood the post. I am simply stating a fact o history with regards to slave and/or cheap labor being part of every nation that ruled its era.
Slavery and oppressively working cheap labor is obvioiusly morally wrong. However, its a fact of history. And its been a fact many nations histories. You state I 'boasted' about that in terms of America. You are inferring something that is not so. Some on here think it may be a good thing America has done that. You post my state of mind (boast) as if fact and you assume or infer. Ask me if I think something is right or wrong and I'll tell you.
I also did not say a nation should strive to rule its era. You inferred that but its not my view.
Absolutely nothing wrong with a small, homogenous nation. No where in my posts did I say that was a bad thing. Numerous nations prospered in that way. Korea for one. Also, Israel, is not as homogenous as people think. They have about a half million Arabs and the Jews there come from all over the world, with varying cultures. A Spanish Sephardic Jew adn a Ukrainian Jew may differ very much. Furthermore, religiously they differ. There are all aspects to Judaism. Conservatie, Hasidic, Reformed, etc. Jews differ greatly over this.
You seemed to have picked up certain parts of my posts and restated it without the proper context or reasoning behind them. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Strongly encouraging -- even pressuring -- them to take short-term birth control isn't malicious, it's rational. |
Do you have another source that supports this claim? Because this...
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| If they were to tie down these women and sterilize them, yes, that would be malicious. |
...is closer to what was described in the OP's article. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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RE: Sirius, if you want to dodge, that's fine. I should have anticipated it and not bothered asking.
RE Goat: No, it is not. Sterilization is permanent, these shots last three months. Even the absolute worst case scenario is not comprable to forced sterilization. Conversation finished. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| RE Goat: No, it is not. Sterilization is permanent, these shots last three months. Even the absolute worst case scenario is not comprable to forced sterilization. Conversation finished. |
Your focus is on the wrong part of the sentence: "If they were to tie down these women[...]" The article very clearly states that the practice being questioned is not strongly encouraging or pressuring the women into receiving the shots; it is forcing them to receive them or lying to them about what the shots contained. So do you have a source that disputes that that took place?
If you don't, then I agree: conversation finished. Forcing immigrants to receive unwanted birth control shots or lying to them to coerce their acceptance is simply evil.
edit: And looking back through the thread, I didn't see this mentioned. Possible attempts at eugenics aren't the only concern here. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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Based on the comments of ONE nurse? Are you actually serious? That's not helping your cause any. To sum up your argument. You are taking the comments of one individual and "assuming" (without providing a shred of proof) that this represents the mindset of Israelis/the Israeli government in general.
That's borderline trolling sir. You are better than that.
Come on now. If I were a Canadian doctor and said something along the lines of those comments would you automatically assume the Canadian government shared the same sentiments?
To relate to our own situation here. Foreign English teachers shouldn't be all tarred with the same brush just because some got caught with illegal drugs.
Koreans shouldn't all be tarred with the same brush just because some of our employers have been less than honest with us.
Why does the same thinking not apply to Israel and Jews?
Do you have any solid proof whatsoever that the majority of Israelis/ or the majority of the Israeli government holds a "quasi-eugenic mindset"?
Sure some probably do...but then again you can find those types in countries across the globe. Why then, are these people nutjobs elsewhere but when it comes to Israel, it represents the sentiments of the people/government at large? |
Well, if a hagwon recruiter were filmed on hidden camera saying "The criminal-record check is required of foreign-teachers because they're all a bunch of dope-smoking child-molestors", I would speculate that that reflects the views of more than just the one recruiter. It's not outside the bounds of plausibility to think that the recruiter probably got the idea from talking to other people.
And, for the record, I DO think that things like selective drug-testing(Korean teachers are apparently considered trustworthy enough to go untested) and inflammatory TV reports about inter-racial dating reflect a certain Us Vs. Them mindset prevalent in Korean society. Where I disagree with the usual waygukin doomsday brigade is...
1. I don't think these things are the harbingers of ethnic persecution that they're made out to be(eg. posters fretting that their Korean girfriends are gonna have acid tossed in their faces for holding hands in public).
2. I don't think there's much point to people organizing protests against this xenophobia, which is ultimately ridiculous, but probably more harmful to Korean society itself than to waygukins, for the reason outlined in Point 1.
Now, if we were talking about contraception being administered to foreigners, and a Korean doctor were quoted as saying the things that the Israeli doctor was quoted as saying, I might see a bigger problem. Especially if the push for contraception were known to be coming from official quarters, as in Israel.
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Speaking to reporters on an episode of Israel Educational Television�s investigative show �Vacuum� that aired on Saturday, several immigrants described the intense pressure placed on them to keep their families small. The women claimed Israeli representatives from the Joint Distribution Committee (JDC) and the Health Ministry told them that raising large families is especially difficult, that it is for hard people with many children to find work and support their families, and that many landlords would not be willing to rent apartments to large families.
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
[.
Now, if we were talking about contraception being administered to foreigners, and a Korean doctor were quoted as saying the things that the Israeli doctor was quoted as saying, I might see a bigger problem. Especially if the push for contraception were known to be coming from official quarters, as in Israel.
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Speaking to reporters on an episode of Israel Educational Television�s investigative show �Vacuum� that aired on Saturday, several immigrants described the intense pressure placed on them to keep their families small. The women claimed Israeli representatives from the Joint Distribution Committee (JDC) and the Health Ministry told them that raising large families is especially difficult, that it is for hard people with many children to find work and support their families, and that many landlords would not be willing to rent apartments to large families.
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Let's look at that quote again and put in bold a different part.
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| Speaking to reporters on an episode of Israel Educational Television�s investigative show �Vacuum� that aired on Saturday, several immigrants described the intense pressure placed on them to keep their families small. The women claimed Israeli representatives from the Joint Distribution Committee (JDC) and the Health Ministry told them that raising large families is especially difficult, that it is for hard people with many children to find work and support their families, and that many landlords would not be willing to rent apartments to large families. |
I should think one should wait to hear both sides before rushing to judgment...no? |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
RE: Sirius, if you want to dodge, that's fine. I should have anticipated it and not bothered asking.
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Ah...Fox, you do keep trying. Weak effort. I expected better. You do post some interesting stuff once in a while. This isn't one of them due to inaccuracy.
This quote from me blows you 'boast' proclamation out of the water
"Not saying its right, its just a fact of history"
Not saying its right, in other words, I AM NOT SAYING ITS RIGHT..lol. Where's the boast? I am stating a fact NOT an opinion.
Next? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:19 am Post subject: |
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| RE: Sirius, if you want to dodge, that's fine. I should have anticipated it and not bothered asking. |
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