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maximmm
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
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 Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 5:04 am Post subject: |
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| young_clinton wrote: |
| I worked two years in a small city and never once heard anything rotten about the Japanese from Koreans. All I heard one time was a very reserved "They seem very nice when you deal with them, in reality they are not". |
I find that it is not a subject that is often brought up (unless there's some media blowout on the subject of Dokdo) - you pretty much have to ask your students about it.
In my case, it is a subject that comes up when I teach countries/nationalities. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| hiamnotcool wrote: |
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I understand you are an intelligent person here, what I don't understand is how you can't realize my personal experience has led me to believe that the majority of Korean people hate Japanese people. . |
Let me see if I can help you understand. There are around 50 million Koreans in South Korean plus millions more living around.
You have not talked to the majority or even close.
Therefore you are basing your claims on exactly what? A few hundred or maybe a couple thousand? (and that's pushing it).
But even so that is less than 1/100 of ONE PERCENT of the population. Hardly a basis for making a sweeping generalization about the majority of Koreans. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Waygeek wrote: |
Haha brilliant analogy.
And you touch on something that's very true. I find people I come across in the outside world to be so much happier living in Korea with Korean people. It's the anti-socials that spend their days spreading hatred on the internet that fester in their own bile. |
Yeah that's been noticed by others here as well. |
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hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
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I understand you are an intelligent person here, what I don't understand is how you can't realize my personal experience has led me to believe that the majority of Korean people hate Japanese people. . |
Let me see if I can help you understand. There are around 50 million Koreans in South Korean plus millions more living around.
You have not talked to the majority or even close.
Therefore you are basing your claims on exactly what? A few hundred or maybe a couple thousand? (and that's pushing it).
But even so that is less than 1/100 of ONE PERCENT of the population. Hardly a basis for making a sweeping generalization about the majority of Koreans. |
I'm basing my claims on every Korean I have ever met, and every person I have ever met that has met a Korean person. Aside from that it is impossible to measure. It's ok for me to form an opinion based off my personal experience because that is all that can be used in this situation. Sorry but I won't deny the common sense that tells me this is the way the majority of the country feels.
Yes, it's a sweeping generalization and I have no problem making it. Try convincing me otherwise if you can, but using foreign aid is quite a stretch. If foreign aid is the measure than the USA would probably be the least racist country in the world, and that is laughable. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
[
I understand you are an intelligent person here, what I don't understand is how you can't realize my personal experience has led me to believe that the majority of Korean people hate Japanese people. . |
Let me see if I can help you understand. There are around 50 million Koreans in South Korean plus millions more living around.
You have not talked to the majority or even close.
Therefore you are basing your claims on exactly what? A few hundred or maybe a couple thousand? (and that's pushing it).
But even so that is less than 1/100 of ONE PERCENT of the population. Hardly a basis for making a sweeping generalization about the majority of Koreans. |
I'm basing my claims on every Korean I have ever met, and every person I have ever met that has met a Korean person. Aside from that it is impossible to measure. It's ok for me to form an opinion based off my personal experience because that is all that can be used in this situation. Sorry but I won't deny the common sense that tells me this is the way the majority of the country feels.
Yes, it's a sweeping generalization and I have no problem making it. Try convincing me otherwise if you can, but using foreign aid is quite a stretch. If foreign aid is the measure than the USA would probably be the least racist country in the world, and that is laughable. |
I don't have to convince you and it would be a waste of time anyway. You've made that abundantly clear when you admitted that you have absolutely no problem making sweeping generalizations based on your interactions with a few Koreans.
In other words you only want to hear/will only hear evidence that supports your opinion.
Have a nice day. |
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hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
[
I understand you are an intelligent person here, what I don't understand is how you can't realize my personal experience has led me to believe that the majority of Korean people hate Japanese people. . |
Let me see if I can help you understand. There are around 50 million Koreans in South Korean plus millions more living around.
You have not talked to the majority or even close.
Therefore you are basing your claims on exactly what? A few hundred or maybe a couple thousand? (and that's pushing it).
But even so that is less than 1/100 of ONE PERCENT of the population. Hardly a basis for making a sweeping generalization about the majority of Koreans. |
I'm basing my claims on every Korean I have ever met, and every person I have ever met that has met a Korean person. Aside from that it is impossible to measure. It's ok for me to form an opinion based off my personal experience because that is all that can be used in this situation. Sorry but I won't deny the common sense that tells me this is the way the majority of the country feels.
Yes, it's a sweeping generalization and I have no problem making it. Try convincing me otherwise if you can, but using foreign aid is quite a stretch. If foreign aid is the measure than the USA would probably be the least racist country in the world, and that is laughable. |
I don't have to convince you and it would be a waste of time anyway. You've made that abundantly clear when you admitted that you have absolutely no problem making sweeping generalizations based on your interactions with a few Koreans.
In other words you only want to hear/will only hear evidence that supports your opinion.
Have a nice day. |
Crazy how I've only met a few Koreans the whole time I've lived here. You don't have to convince me, but if you could I think you would. You can't though. All you have are a bunch of dollar signs that were donated after a Tsunami which mean nothing. USA donates a lot of money to Islamic countries, but there is still a strong anti-Islamic sentiment in the USA (there I go making another generalization again).
I generalize all the time, with no regrets. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Well using every Korean person I have ever met, here and abroad, I find the issue is much more complex.
2% are Japanophiles. They love Japanese food, groups, hanging out with Japanese.
I'd say 2% are pure haters. Won't have anything to do with Japanese stuff whatsoever. Refuse to drive Japanese cars, visit websites, etc.
10% Seem to regularly visit Japan and interact with Japanese people. Watch Japanese TV shows regularly. Not obsessed with Japan, but they are sure to check up on the scene from time to time. Probably have a couple Japanese friends.
Another 10% are habitual grumblers. Look for any excuse to crack at the Japanese, pretty nationalistic opinions, bring up Dokdo within 2 minutes.
20% Are dabblers with Japanese stuff. Maybe one favorite band, a favorite drama, and have visited there once or twice. Like certain things about Japan. Occasionally dismayed and upset over hot button issues like Dokdo or comfort women, but generally wish those things would just get resolved so everyone can move on.
20% Hold negative views of the Japanese government and/or people and incorporate that into their world view. Get a little jazzed up for Korea v. Japan baseball or soccer international matches. However, they are willing to be polite to individual Japanese people, might take one trip to Japan, and in the right situation, could even have Japanese friends and colleagues. It would take something or someone special though.
The rest of the people? They only care about Japan for the fact that Big Bang is releasing a Japanese language album and poster set and need it so they add it to their collection. Would like to see Big Bang in concert in Japan so they can show how hardcore of a fan they are, but hates the fact that Big Bang goes over there when they should be playing in Korea so its easier to go to their concert. Hates talk about Korea and Japan because people aren't talking about Big Bang. Unless Big Bang is doing some sort of Dokdo campaign, then Dokdo is issue #1. However if Big Bang is all about Japanese stuff and being friendly with Japan and peaceful resolutions and post-Tsunami humanitarian aid, then the nation of Korea should support Big Bang by sending millions of dollars to their cause.
Substitute Big Bang with interest of choice/trying to get laid or paid and that pretty much sums up the largest block of people. |
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joelove
Joined: 12 May 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know much about statistics but I've heard of random sampling, where maybe a few thousand people, who are regular people of a culture ("representative" to use the statistical term), is a large enough number to get a general idea about the interests of millions in that same culture. This means a tiny fraction of a population can give a fairly accurate picture of that population's interests.
Isn't this how a lot of research gets done? Generalizations can be pretty accurate, albeit not perfect. |
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Old fat expat
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Location: a caravan of dust, making for a windy prairie
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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The Myth wrote:
| Quote: |
Let me see if I can help you understand. There are around 50 million Koreans in South Korean plus millions more living around.
You have not talked to the majority or even close.
Therefore you are basing your claims on exactly what? A few hundred or maybe a couple thousand? (and that's pushing it).
But even so that is less than 1/100 of ONE PERCENT of the population. Hardly a basis for making a sweeping generalization about the majority of Koreans.
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Well, I can't agree.
From an idiopathic point of view, anyone is quite within their rights to express an opinion based on what they have personally observed. That is, they are correct in their observations and what it means to them.
From a nomothetic point of view, it is data that can be combined and used for a qualitative understanding. If we get a large proportion of people responding to X, then X needs further study with tighter control.
For quantitative data, you would be surprised at how few of a random sample is required to make a statistical finding (yes, it is in the hundreds, and even less if you use Cohan's d). Still not convinced? Show me research findings that sample the majority (yes, sampling a majority would be an oxymoron).
But we are not talking sample sizes and statistical methods. This is a message board where people come to express opinions. Your constant imposition of your observations over everyone else does not further understanding. You appear to want to stifle dissenting opinions. I wonder why (not really-rhetorical)
You do know that 2 people can have opposite experiences and that both can be correct, right? Constantly telling people they are wrong as their observations don't gel with yours is just, I don't know ... weird.
As is the first year Sociology canard "you have not talked to everyone, how do you know?" |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Waygeek wrote: |
Haha brilliant analogy.
And you touch on something that's very true. I find people I come across in the outside world to be so much happier living in Korea with Korean people. It's the anti-socials that spend their days spreading hatred on the internet that fester in their own bile. |
Yeah that's been noticed by others here as well. |
YOU certainly seem like one of these anti-socials that spend all the time on the Internet, so it's good that you noticed that! 
You know, the ones who spend more time online dropping junior-high debate speak rather than actually going outside and forming real impressions of something. But to do that, one might have to actually make a... generalization! Oh the horror of it!
^Read Old fat expat's post again clearly, and get off the computer and get back to us with some RANDOM SAMPLING in the form of going out a bit. Forget your whole, "majority" and "what constitutes a lot" nonsense.
It's great that you have the opposite view of most everyone else out there regarding Koreans and racism, maybe we've all been just been very unlucky and just simply met all the bad ones, and our huge informal, cross referenced random sample is vastly inaccurate and our impressions are 180 degrees backwards from reality, and where there is smoke there really ISN'T fire. Yeah, that's it.
Koreans are good people, but come on now... you have a traditionally homogenous culture with identity closely tied to race, and somehow it's some big shock that they tend to have some racist tendencies? Come on now. Drop the junior-high debate-speak gymnastics, and put 2 + 2 together for once. There's really not much of a debate here. And even if there is... you're losing it. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Mix1 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Waygeek wrote: |
Haha brilliant analogy.
And you touch on something that's very true. I find people I come across in the outside world to be so much happier living in Korea with Korean people. It's the anti-socials that spend their days spreading hatred on the internet that fester in their own bile. |
Yeah that's been noticed by others here as well. |
YOU certainly seem like one of these anti-socials that spend all the time on the Internet, so it's good that you noticed that!
You know, the ones who spend more time online dropping junior-high debate speak rather than actually going outside and forming real impressions of something. But to do that, one might have to actually make a... generalization! Oh the horror of it!
^Read Old fat expat's post again clearly, and get off the computer and get back to us with some RANDOM SAMPLING in the form of going out a bit. Forget your whole, "majority" and "what constitutes a lot" nonsense.
It's great that you have the opposite view of most everyone else out there regarding Koreans and racism, maybe we've all been just been very unlucky and just simply met all the bad ones, and our huge informal, cross referenced random sample is vastly inaccurate and our impressions are 180 degrees backwards from reality, and where there is smoke there really ISN'T fire. Yeah, that's it.
Koreans are good people, but come on now... you have a traditionally homogenous culture with identity closely tied to race, and somehow it's some big shock that they tend to have some racist tendencies? Come on now. Drop the junior-high debate-speak gymnastics, and put 2 + 2 together for once. There's really not much of a debate here. And even if there is... you're losing it. |
First of all how about dropping the claim that you speak for "most everyone else out there"?
Talk about "junior-high debate-speak gymnastics".
You are however correct about one thing, that there isn't much of a debate here. I've already provided evidence (newspaper accounts) and links in support of my position while all the evidence marshaled in support of the other position is unverifiable anecdotal claims.
But if that's good enough for you then so be it. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this topic. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Old fat expat wrote: |
The Myth wrote:
| Quote: |
Let me see if I can help you understand. There are around 50 million Koreans in South Korean plus millions more living around.
You have not talked to the majority or even close.
Therefore you are basing your claims on exactly what? A few hundred or maybe a couple thousand? (and that's pushing it).
But even so that is less than 1/100 of ONE PERCENT of the population. Hardly a basis for making a sweeping generalization about the majority of Koreans.
|
Well, I can't agree.
From an idiopathic point of view, anyone is quite within their rights to express an opinion based on what they have personally observed. That is, they are correct in their observations and what it means to them.
From a nomothetic point of view, it is data that can be combined and used for a qualitative understanding. If we get a large proportion of people responding to X, then X needs further study with tighter control.
For quantitative data, you would be surprised at how few of a random sample is required to make a statistical finding (yes, it is in the hundreds, and even less if you use Cohan's d). Still not convinced? Show me research findings that sample the majority (yes, sampling a majority would be an oxymoron).
But we are not talking sample sizes and statistical methods. This is a message board where people come to express opinions. Your constant imposition of your observations over everyone else does not further understanding. You appear to want to stifle dissenting opinions. I wonder why (not really-rhetorical)
You do know that 2 people can have opposite experiences and that both can be correct, right? Constantly telling people they are wrong as their observations don't gel with yours is just, I don't know ... weird.
As is the first year Sociology canard "you have not talked to everyone, how do you know?" |
Yes everyone is "quite within their rights to express an opinion based on what they have personally observed".
I quite agree. But what about when they start going on about things they have not personally observed?
Anyway since we both now agree that everyone is within their rights to express an opinion on what they've personally observe...it must therefore be MY right to express MY opinion on the posts on this forum that I've personally observed. 
Expressing one's opinion does not necessarily stifle debate...if anything I've observed the opposite.
But on a serious note now. Exactly where have I told people that they are wrong because their observations do not gel with mine? If you wish me to take your opinions seriously then addressing what I've said rather than making up accusations would be a good start. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Waygeek wrote: |
Haha brilliant analogy.
And you touch on something that's very true. I find people I come across in the outside world to be so much happier living in Korea with Korean people. It's the anti-socials that spend their days spreading hatred on the internet that fester in their own bile. |
Yeah that's been noticed by others here as well. |
YOU certainly seem like one of these anti-socials that spend all the time on the Internet, so it's good that you noticed that!
You know, the ones who spend more time online dropping junior-high debate speak rather than actually going outside and forming real impressions of something. But to do that, one might have to actually make a... generalization! Oh the horror of it!
^Read Old fat expat's post again clearly, and get off the computer and get back to us with some RANDOM SAMPLING in the form of going out a bit. Forget your whole, "majority" and "what constitutes a lot" nonsense.
It's great that you have the opposite view of most everyone else out there regarding Koreans and racism, maybe we've all been just been very unlucky and just simply met all the bad ones, and our huge informal, cross referenced random sample is vastly inaccurate and our impressions are 180 degrees backwards from reality, and where there is smoke there really ISN'T fire. Yeah, that's it.
Koreans are good people, but come on now... you have a traditionally homogenous culture with identity closely tied to race, and somehow it's some big shock that they tend to have some racist tendencies? Come on now. Drop the junior-high debate-speak gymnastics, and put 2 + 2 together for once. There's really not much of a debate here. And even if there is... you're losing it. |
First of all how about dropping the claim that you speak for "most everyone else out there"?
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First of all, how about dropping the claim that I made that claim.
You're way out in left field as usual, and trying to disguise it with your junior-high debate speak. I doubt anyone is impressed.
You try to claim you've won the "debate" with some random links that nobody but you cares about, then backtrack into how you are simply within your rights to your "opinion". Yeah, that's really winning.
Obviously you didn't read Old fat expat's post or just couldn't comprehend it.
But anyway, back to your "opinion", if you're going to have one that's fine, but since your opinion differs from so many, how about answering some questions:
Do you actually live IN Korea, and if so, do you ever leave your apartment? If so, how much of the language can you understand?
I'm guessing the answers are YES, RARELY, and NOT MUCH. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| If you wish me to take your opinions seriously then addressing what I've said rather than making up accusations would be a good start. |
Tip:
You should probably be more worried about him taking YOU seriously. In any way.
And do you really think he or anyone else cares much if you take their opinions seriously or not? You are overestimating your importance here. Nobody is seeking your approval. Deriding you maybe, but other than that...
Jeez, some guys post a few random links and suddenly they think they own the place. |
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spilot101
Joined: 05 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:52 am Post subject: |
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[quote="hiamnotcool"][quote="TheUrbanMyth"]
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
[
If foreign aid is the measure than the USA would probably be the least racist country in the world, and that is laughable. |
Not quite, it's not the total amount that really counts, but rather the amount per GDP. In this case, the US is at the bottom of the barrel.... |
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