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dairyairy
Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea
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 Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| bossface wrote: |
| thebearofbundang wrote: |
| There are 2 Taco Bells in Korea (Correct me if I'm wrong)?.. Both located in the two places which have the highest density of westerners in Korea. |
You are. There are 8.
http://www.tacobellkorea.com/board/franchise_intro.asp
I went to the Gangnam branch a couple weeks ago, and it was packed to the gills. My buddy and I were the only whities in the joint. I've seen the same thing at the Sindorim and Hongdae branches. Western love for the Bell may have been why they expanded from Itaewon to Hongdae, but Korean love for the Bell is why the other 6 branches exist. |
Seen it and been in the long lines. We ate at the one at Jamsil a few weeks ago 30 minutes after opening and the seats were all filled and the line was back to halfway of Mos Burger, you know, the restaurant next to it. It's busy open to close in every location. Sometimes you can't get a seat, even at the larger ones. They're talking about further expansion. Somebody likes Taco Bell, eh? |
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byrddogs
Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:29 am Post subject: |
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As for why things are cheaper in China, I'd think raw materials and labor are significantly cheaper, possibly land rates as well. I'd be interested in corporate taxes and duties also.
If someone suddenly can't afford to go to Outback because the price of their steak went from 20 to 25 dollars, that person couldn't afford to eat at either Outback to begin with. There's an old saying- If you have to look at the price, you probably can't afford to eat there.
And Dorito's are absolutely foul and disgusting. Powder cheese residue? Dorito breath? Blech flavor? Zero redeeming qualities. Why eat Doritos when you can eat tortilla chips and salsa? |
Predictably enough I got the response that I had anticipated. I'd venture to say that you know very little/next to nothing about Shanghai, yet still feel the need to project the "I'd think blah blah" it's because of this. That's understandable, but to try and make reasons why as to this city or country even is concerned is out of your realm of knowledge.
Cantina Agave imports a lot of their ingredients (whether they need to or not is irrelevent). I don't think that labor is that much cheaper here than Seoul for these minimum wage jobs. Real estate is super expensive and rising in costs. This is a worldly international city afterall. It's not like most of the rest of China. So, yeah one has to wonder how they are still able to reasonably price themselves in a market that has tons of other western food options in a quite expensive to live in city. Tax and import duty breaks? Yeah perhaps. Why can't the capitalist country do the same?
Don't really care to comment on that second part.
Not a big fan of Doritos, but don't take offence to the existence of them either. Zero redeeming qualities, from the guy that admitted to eating Taco Bell after pounding tequila all night to soak up the alcohol. Nice! |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:48 am Post subject: |
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| dairyairy wrote: |
| Quote: |
If someone suddenly can't afford to go to Outback because the price of their steak went from 20 to 25 dollars, that person couldn't afford to eat at either Outback to begin with. There's an old saying- If you have to look at the price, you probably can't afford to eat there.
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That's where you're wrong and you've been wrong throughout this thread. Price does matter and the fact remains that the Outback in Itaewon went under because it outpriced its competition. What's its competition? That depends, it could be a number of local restaurants. They don't have to be just steakhouses. Location and prices play a part in direct or indirect competition. Just like Taco Bell and On the Border could be in direct competition or not, based on a number of factors. But you, steelrails, don't like Taco Bell so you just "wish it away" when discussing restaurant chains in the Seoul area.
Ah, but let's look at your claim that the Korean restaurant market is highly inelastic when it comes to prices. That depends on location, but you claim that location doesn't matter. Hint: It does. But, for the most part, it is elastic. Prices do matter and Outback in Itaewon is exhibit A.
We have discussed economics on another thread- one about free rides on the Seoul Subway. remember that one? The point was made by many posters that the free rides based solely on age were not economically fair and that, instead, they should be based on income. But you didn't understand the phrase "economically fair." You kept insisting that "fairness" was letting old people ride for free. I suspect you don't understand price elasticity, either, otherwise you wouldn't be claiming that prices don't matter. |
Can you substantiate in any way that the Outback in Itaewon went out of business because it outpriced its competition? You say it's a "fact."
Yet there are other higher priced restaurants in the area. And there are other reasons that the Outback could have decided to move out of Itaewon.
Prices matter but Outback isn't any more expensive than similar style restaurants. It's not fast food so to compare it to Taco Bell doesn't make any sense. As for overpriced, what about Suji's? It's still alive and well in Itaewon. If price is, as you imply, the overriding factor in restaurant patronage, how do you explain that?
Location matters, and it may be that the Outback no longer offered what the average customer in Itaewon was looking for.
SR may not like Taco Bell and be predisposed to argue a certain way due to that, but your obvious fondness for Taco Bell puts your credibility in question as well. |
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I'm With You
Joined: 01 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| At least Japan had the sense to bring in foriegn chefs to make Italian food, curry, pizza and the like. I never saw any corn on pizza over there. |
The Japanese put corn on everything, what are you talking about?
No only do the Japanese put corn on pizza, they put mayonnaise, potatoes, and fish eggs and eggs on pizza. |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Price does matter and the fact remains that the Outback in Itaewon went under because it outpriced its competition. |
Like atwood said- Really? You have proof to back that claim? There's a bunch of other restaurants that have the same price, why aren't they out of business?
Maybe, just maybe, its because in Itaewon there are dozens of foreign restaurants in the area all offering superior food for a similar price and an atmosphere more conducive to heavy boozing.
Again, I think you are projecting your own personal dislikes for the restaurant onto why it may have folded.
| Quote: |
| But you, steelrails, don't like Taco Bell so you just "wish it away" when discussing restaurant chains in the Seoul area. |
Dude, I talked about the necessity of having fountain Dr. Pepper with my Taco Bell. Anyone who knows anything about Taco Bell knows that Dr. Pepper was the perfect match with it and when TBell replaced it with Wild Cherry Pepsi, that was a sad day for serious Border fans.
But I think its ridiculous to compare the two, call one grossly overpriced, and to suggest that the chains in Seoul are suddenly about to fold because of their price.
| Quote: |
| We have discussed economics on another thread- one about free rides on the Seoul Subway. remember that one? The point was made by many posters that the free rides based solely on age were not economically fair and that, instead, they should be based on income. But you didn't understand the phrase "economically fair." You kept insisting that "fairness" was letting old people ride for free. I suspect you don't understand price elasticity, either, otherwise you wouldn't be claiming that prices don't matter. |
Your approaching this from an economic angle, you aren't approaching it from a marketing and hospitality management angle.
If there is ANY industry where people do not behave in an economically rational fashion, it is the restaurant industry. If people were rational, they wouldn't be eating at restaurants in the first place and certainly wouldn't be devouring deep fat fried food and copious amounts of booze.
When you approach the situation from a hospitality and restaurant management, as well as marketing standpoint, the reasons for Outback's closure in Itaewon and not anywhere else become clear. The reasons for both Taco Bell AND OTB being full are clear.
You seem to think that OTB should be on the verge of death because Taco Bell with its lower prices and "food they can't tell the difference from" will take away their business.
Not to mention you still haven't owned up for your ridiculous claim that Outback is so expensive it couldn't be supported outside of Seoul. Not to mention you failed to consider the credit card discounts as well.
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| So, yeah one has to wonder how they are still able to reasonably price themselves in a market that has tons of other western food options in a quite expensive to live in city. Tax and import duty breaks? Yeah perhaps. Why can't the capitalist country do the same? |
The one with the strong history of protectionism? I don't know about China, do they do the same heavy discount credit card system?
Also, you're comparing a local joint to a franchise. Cantina Agave doesn't have to pay franchise fees and can adjust its menu to what it feels like on the spur of the moment. OTBs are required per franchise agreement to keep everything in stock, even less popular items. This increases food cost.
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| but your obvious fondness for Taco Bell puts your credibility in question as well. |
The fallacy of projection strikes again. Dig up the Costco thread. The dude argued that Costco was popular because of items he personally favored- pizza, muffins, and cheese. Not because of things like oil, peanuts, produce, and salt.
dairyairy, did it ever occur to you that your personal reasons for not liking Outback might not be the reason that the restaurant closed? Did it ever occur to you that the reason Costco is popular is not because of the reasons you like Costco? |
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byrddogs
Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:05 am Post subject: |
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The one with the strong history of protectionism? I don't know about China, do they do the same heavy discount credit card system?
Also, you're comparing a local joint to a franchise. Cantina Agave doesn't have to pay franchise fees and can adjust its menu to what it feels like on the spur of the moment. OTBs are required per franchise agreement to keep everything in stock, even less popular items. This increases food cost. |
Yep, that one precisely. I don't think that there is the same reward system here for using a C credit card. That is a sketchy system anyway. Hey, let's reward customers that have a CC through an institution that we are affiliated with and screw the average person that wants to eat here. Although I will admit that I was treated to many discounts by my K gf that had such a card while I was there.
Yep, you are right in that CA is a local joint with a couple of locations here vs. a franchised chain from the States. That is a fair point, but I don't see the many fast food franchises in K or C jacking up prices just because they are franchised. They seem to be quite close to their parent company from wherever in their pricing. Seems that OTB realized that they could charge whatever they want while serving mediocre grub and people are going to pay it regardless there. That's wonderful. I'd like to have a franchised restaurant like that myself. |
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hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den
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| Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:14 am Post subject: |
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How about this idea you clowns, ALL the shops in the building have been closed down including a fairly busy subway, cosmetic shop, hamilton shirts and nike store.
MAYBE the building owner sold out and the new owners are tearing it down to build something else and thats all it is.
Yeah it stinks that Subway, Quiznos and Burger King have all closed in the past couple of months but I bet its all driven by the Koreanization of Itaewon and the higher rents that generates that have caused all this |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| Why would one assume that it was Outback's pricing that was the issue? Outback makes zero sense in Itaewon. You have an international dining district with dozens of independently owned restaurants priced similarly and with better food. Who is Outback in Itaewon meant to appeal to? Foreigners should know better than to eat there, while Koreans making the trek to the foreigner's pit of sin are generally going for something a bit more unique, as they can find Outback in their own neighborhoods. Eating Outback in Itaewon is like eating California Pizza Kitchen in New York. I'm guessing this has more to do with a maturing market, in terms of both foreign offerings and Korean preferences, than it does with Outback's pricing. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah it stinks that Subway, Quiznos and Burger King have all closed in the past couple of months but I bet its all driven by the Koreanization of Itaewon and the higher rents that generates that have caused all this
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In the case of BK, that could very well be for the same reasons as northway mentioned in regards to Outback- It doesn't have much appeal in Itaewon. You can get BK all over now, so its not special". Why get that when you can head over to Ankara Picnic or somewhere else? You can always get BK tomorrow at any number of places, same with McD's.
As for Subway and Quizno's, who knows? If I had to guess- Subway's mediocre tasting product and Quizno's takes too long. I've never seen a Quizno's here or back home get customers in and out quickly.
Now Jimmy John's, that would KILL in Itaewon I think.
| Quote: |
| Why would one assume that it was Outback's pricing that was the issue? |
That's why dairyairy doesn't eat there, therefore that must be the reason it's not popular. |
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hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den
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| Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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Burger King got killed by its new location basically in an old office building, nobody could find it, when it was on the corner across from the Hamilton it did a huge business, i remember late at night it being packed. Heck an infamous murder occurred in it. That corner is likely the most prized piece or real estate in Itaewon and I know from talking to the owners of the old Schlotzkys that Itaewon real estate prices were the highest north of the river
I think again why Quiznos and Subway got shut down was the landlord raised the rents so high they couldn't justify it, both did a good business. Again blame it on greedy landlords. |
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I'm With You
Joined: 01 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
Burger King got killed by its new location basically in an old office building, nobody could find it, when it was on the corner across from the Hamilton it did a huge business, i remember late at night it being packed. Heck an infamous murder occurred in it. That corner is likely the most prized piece or real estate in Itaewon and I know from talking to the owners of the old Schlotzkys that Itaewon real estate prices were the highest north of the river
I think again why Quiznos and Subway got shut down was the landlord raised the rents so high they couldn't justify it, both did a good business. Again blame it on greedy landlords. |
I wonder if we'll even recognize Itaewon in 2 or 3 years. I've seen a lot of changes over the last decade. Some good, but I worry.
Where will we go after it's been Koreanized? |
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createasaurus21
Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Outback Korea uses sub-grade steaks, I would guess the steaks they use are the equivalent to USDA Select. And they are way overpriced, even by Korean expensive beef price standards. |
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createasaurus21
Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| Why would one assume that it was Outback's pricing that was the issue? Outback makes zero sense in Itaewon. You have an international dining district with dozens of independently owned restaurants priced similarly and with better food. Who is Outback in Itaewon meant to appeal to? Foreigners should know better than to eat there, while Koreans making the trek to the foreigner's pit of sin are generally going for something a bit more unique, as they can find Outback in their own neighborhoods. Eating Outback in Itaewon is like eating California Pizza Kitchen in New York. I'm guessing this has more to do with a maturing market, in terms of both foreign offerings and Korean preferences, than it does with Outback's pricing. |
I completely agree. |
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NohopeSeriously
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea
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| Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:06 am Post subject: |
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| I give up eating quality steak or any beef cut in Korea and never regret it. |
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