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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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 Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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^^Just on the salary thing. Pre-baby, I was making 5, and got up to almost 6 a month alone. But when you've got a small baby to look after, you don't have the energy to work that much. Currently I'm only making about 3.5 mil. Also my wife hasn't worked for the past 2.5 years.
As you age, irregardless of kids, I'd also wonder about the ability to work so many hours. I think most people burn out.
Final point is, at least in my case, working so much has turned me off teaching. It's lost a lot of it's joy.
So basically I think you won't want, or be able, to work so hard for the rest of your life.
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But on the other point of pensions, especially defined benefit. Most employees aren't covered by any plan at all.
"According to Statistics Canada, six out of 10 Canadians have no formal pension plan."
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorialopinion/2011/07/03/imagining_a_world_without_pensions.html
I guess I'll try to get a government job. I was surprised when I visited 5 years ago, but BC Transit bus driver looked about 35, clean cut, smart looking guy. When I was a kid those drivers were slouches, now that's a good job! |
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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
^^Just on the salary thing. Pre-baby, I was making 5, and got up to almost 6 a month alone. But when you've got a small baby to look after, you don't have the energy to work that much. Currently I'm only making about 3.5 mil. Also my wife hasn't worked for the past 2.5 years.
As you age, irregardless of kids, I'd also wonder about the ability to work so many hours. I think most people burn out.
Final point is, at least in my case, working so much has turned me off teaching. It's lost a lot of it's joy.
So basically I think you won't want, or be able, to work so hard for the rest of your life.
==
But on the other point of pensions, especially defined benefit. Most employees aren't covered by any plan at all.
"According to Statistics Canada, six out of 10 Canadians have no formal pension plan."
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorialopinion/2011/07/03/imagining_a_world_without_pensions.html
I guess I'll try to get a government job. I was surprised when I visited 5 years ago, but BC Transit bus driver looked about 35, clean cut, smart looking guy. When I was a kid those drivers were slouches, now that's a good job! |
Oh god this is also an excellent point and I can't believe I forgot to mention it.
When I left Korea I was taking home between 5-6 million a month. It was damn good savings but I paid a price. My contact hours were around 40-45 and between prep, grading and traveling I was putting in. 60-70 hour work week monday to saturday. Even if you have one of those coveted 12 hr/week uni jobs, you're still going to have to hump it around Seoul to make 6 mill. After 10 years you will quite simply burn out and HATE teaching. I've seen it happen so many times. Salaries don't increase as the little ones get older and more expensive and the only alternative is to up the contact hours. As you get older, it just isn't feasible if you want to see your kids and keep a happy marriage. I've seen this situation play out with so many guys in Seoul, they go nuts and all that keeps them sane is their 1-2 hours a week in their ball-hockey league. |
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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/090908/t090908b1-eng.htm
Also only 29% of Canadiand aged 25-34 have a uni degree in 2009.
People can say uni degrees are useless but not having one certainly leaves a lot of doors closed.
I'd be curious what percentage of educated Canadians (which you fall into whether you like it or not) have a plan (contribution or benefit). It will be higher than 4/10 I think. Some of the plans may be crap with interest rates as low as they are but at least they are getting matched by their employers. It's better than nothing.
You also get CPP and old age which are indexed to inflation as long as you work in Canada. You'll get zilch for CPP if you stay in Korea and want to gamble with their government. I'll go with Canada on that one. At least we have 350k immigrants every year that work hard and pay taxes to ease the burden as boomers retire.
A lot of public service jobs really suck. Many of the feds I know here hate their jobs but have nice houses ouside ottawa and are already making a good salary and habe great work life balance.. For me if I'm going to be blah about my job, I'd rather be in Canada than Korea. Not really liking teaching or being burnt out going into you late 40s and 50s in a foreign country just doesn't sound appealing. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| misher wrote: |
| You also get CPP and old age which are indexed to inflation as long as you work in Canada. You'll get zilch for CPP if you stay in Korea and want to gamble with their government. I'll go with Canada on that one. At least we have 350k immigrants every year that work hard and pay taxes to ease the burden as boomers retire. |
There is also OAS, but I think these days it maxes-out around $800, you'd be lucky to get that and it is not enough to live on in Canada. |
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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| I never claimed it would be enough. Maxed out old age pension and CPP will get you about 1200 a month. You'll have to supplement with something from your employment. Nowhere is perfect but its one heck of a lot more support than what a lifer will get in Korea in the esl racket. Anyone who says otherewise has been out of Canada too long imo. Things here aren't THAT bad. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| misher wrote: |
| I never claimed it would be enough. Maxed out old age pension and CPP will get you about 1200 a month. You'll have to supplement with something from your employment. Nowhere is perfect but its one heck of a lot more support than what a lifer will get in Korea in the esl racket. Anyone who says otherewise has been out of Canada too long imo. Things here aren't THAT bad. |
It's risky in Korea. Ideally, those Pension letters the Korean government sends out will actually pan out. Right now it claims in the neighborhood of 500,000-won/month if I make the same amount of money for the next 25 years. But I'm no counting on it. It's going to be a combination of whatever pension I can get, my savings, and luck in my future money making ideas. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| Old timers and guys like Patrick don't really count here because they got into the game waaaaaaaay back and started their businesses ( which is WAY harder to do know that in the 90s) or they jumped ship while their kids were super young thus avoiding the financial burden that would be placed on them had their kids been still teens in Korea going into uni. |
Old time here chiming in 
I started my business in the 2000s, not the 1990s and let me tell you it was far from easy (from a paperwork and procedures standpoint)!
We did not jump ship per se, we were set to move to Seoul in 2008 when I had my accident. That sidetracked our plans and while I was recovering a better offer materialized but this time in Canada. Otherwise, we woul be living in Seoul I suspect.
As for the rest of your post on financial forecasting with kids, it makes a lot of sense and you raise some very valid concerns. I would hope anyone who starts a family anywhere considers those points carefully.
I will say however that that 6M a month figure is not that easy to attain in Canada (if you mean 6M take home pay) due to taxes, the hard job market in many fields.
Also, teachers in Canada do max out in terms of salary after 10-15 years and their base pay does approach somewhere near double what they made initially but only if they got permanent positions with the teachers union, which is far from a given these days. Furthermore such teachers have certification and not an unrelated BA. So there are differences and if you wish to compare then it may be more interesting to compare things that are similar: how certified teachers do home vs abroad.
You could make the point that certified teachers working at International schools also have increasing salaries and conditions over the years.
If however you compare your average ESLer in Korea then the proper comparable is someone working in ESL back home right? |
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cheolsu
Joined: 16 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| I think misher is presuming that the sort of people who do well enough here to make 6 million won per month (somewhere around the top 5% of all earners in Korea) would be employable in Canada, whether it's as teachers or in a different field. His point, I think, boils down to the fact that people with kids will eventually be making 5-6 million won per month on a single income, and working very hard to do so. By contrast, in Canada, you could make comparable money, but with better pension and healthcare to look forward to. So, in conclusion, life is better in Canada than in Korea as you age (assuming that you're employable in Canada) and those who plan to stay in Korea better have a plan. I find it hard to argue with that. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| cheolsu wrote: |
| I think misher is presuming that the sort of people who do well enough here to make 6 million won per month (somewhere around the top 5% of all earners in Korea) would be employable in Canada, whether it's as teachers or in a different field. His point, I think, boils down to the fact that people with kids will eventually be making 5-6 million won per month on a single income, and working very hard to do so. By contrast, in Canada, you could make comparable money, but with better pension and healthcare to look forward to. So, in conclusion, life is better in Canada than in Korea as you age (assuming that you're employable in Canada) and those who plan to stay in Korea better have a plan. I find it hard to argue with that. |
That is a good point and I agree with it.
As to the general point of life is better in Canada as you age (in terms of pension and healthcare) I agree to a point. Healthcare will be "free" or nearly so in terms of getting treatment but you will pay through the nose for it through high to very high income taxes.
If you are employable in Canada you may have access to a good life indeed but the reverse seems true in Korea despite the healthcare potential issue.
I do think people making 5-6M a month in Korea will tend to be the more employable types but that some do so by sheer hard work (hours) and are only teaching English (school job and private lessons). This may be hard to transfer into an equivalent job in Canada unless you have other qualifications..many however do not. Add to that the fact that your spouse may find it hard to find gainful employment in Canada and you might see that living on one salary in Canada with a spouse and kids can be quite daunting in certain cases as opposed to making 5-6M per month in Korea (depending on what you did with that 5-6M over the past few years of course!..if you saved and invested you will be well off, if not well..we all know the rest of that tale).
As for the plan, I could not agree more! If you want to stay in Korea or intend to leave at some point and have kids it is critical to plan ahead. No debate there! |
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