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Titus2
Joined: 06 Sep 2015
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 Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| Titus2 wrote: |
The Trump version of the Republican Party is an enormous departure from the Bush/Romney iteration:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-05-17/koch-brothers-give-a-megaphone-to-the-anti-israel-fringe
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On Wednesday, the Charles Koch Institute, a think tank funded by one of the conservative movement's most generous donors, will host a conference featuring some of the academy's most virulent foes of Israel.
Charles and David Koch, scions of the Koch Industries fortune, have always leaned libertarian in their political giving and nonprofit work. The two brothers have supported criminal-justice reform and other free-market initiatives in education and labor. In foreign policy, the Kochs have stayed away from the uglier fringes that blame Israel and its supporters for hijacking U.S. foreign policy. That is, until now.
The institute's conference scheduled for Wednesday will feature separate panels with Stephen Walt and John Mearsheimer, co-authors of the 2006 book "The Israel Lobby." |
http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/rand-paul-new-defense-think-tank/2016/06/09/id/733130/
| Quote: |
Disciples of Rand Paul and the Koch brothers have come together to form a new defense think tank that will prioritize a strong military but with a focus on "restraint and diplomacy."
Ed King, president and founder of Defense Priorities Foundation, is the former COO of a pro-Paul super Pac; Eleanor May was Paul's campaign press secretary; William Ruger is the vice president of Policy and Research at the Charles Koch Institute, according to the group's website.
Defense Priorities' own foreign policy dictates a strong defense of the country's borders that are responsible.
"These vital interests must be weighed against the prevailing Beltway narrative that obliges U.S. military engagement in so many places and at so many times," Defense Priorities writes on its website. "Too often, these needless and exhausting ventures are undertaken absent thoughtful consideration of the consequences here at home and abroad."
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The smallest opening and the money moves away from the war party.
No more wars for Israel (from the Republicans). The internationalist revolutionary warmongering is much more at home with progressives, from where they initially came. Adleson will throw money at Trump to ensure he keeps the MAD Israel alliance but there will be no war in Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, etc for Israel, unless HRC wins (which she won't). |
To call Stephen Walt of Harvard and John Mearshiemer of U Chicago fringe is as absurd as calling them virulently anti-Isreal. Their views, realism, have been around and been mainstream for decades. This is hardly a new development or new actors. Koch money has been going to this sort of stuff for awhile, and there have always been places like Cato peddling this view.
Your last paragraph is pure speculation. Trump seems just as likely to do stupid stuff in the Middle East as Hillary is, which is very. It's hopeful thinking and a fantasy. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/feb/25/donald-trump/donald-trumps-pants-fire-claim-he-never-discussed-/ |
W&M have been terrorized by ethnocentric Jews for a decade now. They are used to it, and those of us paying attention should understand what is going on. Watch any of their lectures where there are questions at the end and it is an endless stream of people saying their scholarship is shit or that they are bad people or that it was really those dastardly Christians etc. It must be exhausting.
Trump will not be overthrowing governments. He is inclined towards stability and not revolution. I'm reminded of the story of Bush asking his dad "what's a neo-con" ("think Israel, son" was the answer). That kind of naive idiocy is what the neo-cons thrive on. That is not Donald Trump. He knows what's going on. His foreign policy team are standard realist state-capitalist types and not internationalist revolutionaries. There will not be a Doug Feith whispering in his ear. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Titus2 wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Titus2 wrote: |
The Trump version of the Republican Party is an enormous departure from the Bush/Romney iteration:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-05-17/koch-brothers-give-a-megaphone-to-the-anti-israel-fringe
| Quote: |
On Wednesday, the Charles Koch Institute, a think tank funded by one of the conservative movement's most generous donors, will host a conference featuring some of the academy's most virulent foes of Israel.
Charles and David Koch, scions of the Koch Industries fortune, have always leaned libertarian in their political giving and nonprofit work. The two brothers have supported criminal-justice reform and other free-market initiatives in education and labor. In foreign policy, the Kochs have stayed away from the uglier fringes that blame Israel and its supporters for hijacking U.S. foreign policy. That is, until now.
The institute's conference scheduled for Wednesday will feature separate panels with Stephen Walt and John Mearsheimer, co-authors of the 2006 book "The Israel Lobby." |
http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/rand-paul-new-defense-think-tank/2016/06/09/id/733130/
| Quote: |
Disciples of Rand Paul and the Koch brothers have come together to form a new defense think tank that will prioritize a strong military but with a focus on "restraint and diplomacy."
Ed King, president and founder of Defense Priorities Foundation, is the former COO of a pro-Paul super Pac; Eleanor May was Paul's campaign press secretary; William Ruger is the vice president of Policy and Research at the Charles Koch Institute, according to the group's website.
Defense Priorities' own foreign policy dictates a strong defense of the country's borders that are responsible.
"These vital interests must be weighed against the prevailing Beltway narrative that obliges U.S. military engagement in so many places and at so many times," Defense Priorities writes on its website. "Too often, these needless and exhausting ventures are undertaken absent thoughtful consideration of the consequences here at home and abroad."
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The smallest opening and the money moves away from the war party.
No more wars for Israel (from the Republicans). The internationalist revolutionary warmongering is much more at home with progressives, from where they initially came. Adleson will throw money at Trump to ensure he keeps the MAD Israel alliance but there will be no war in Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, etc for Israel, unless HRC wins (which she won't). |
To call Stephen Walt of Harvard and John Mearshiemer of U Chicago fringe is as absurd as calling them virulently anti-Isreal. Their views, realism, have been around and been mainstream for decades. This is hardly a new development or new actors. Koch money has been going to this sort of stuff for awhile, and there have always been places like Cato peddling this view.
Your last paragraph is pure speculation. Trump seems just as likely to do stupid stuff in the Middle East as Hillary is, which is very. It's hopeful thinking and a fantasy. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/feb/25/donald-trump/donald-trumps-pants-fire-claim-he-never-discussed-/ |
W&M have been terrorized by ethnocentric Jews for a decade now. They are used to it, and those of us paying attention should understand what is going on. Watch any of their lectures where there are questions at the end and it is an endless stream of people saying their scholarship is shit or that they are bad people or that it was really those dastardly Christians etc. It must be exhausting.
Trump will not be overthrowing governments. He is inclined towards stability and not revolution. I'm reminded of the story of Bush asking his dad "what's a neo-con" ("think Israel, son" was the answer). That kind of naive idiocy is what the neo-cons thrive on. That is not Donald Trump. He knows what's going on. His foreign policy team are standard realist state-capitalist types and not internationalist revolutionaries. There will not be a Doug Feith whispering in his ear. |
First paragraph, yes. I've seen both speak. I admire them and find criticism of them for that book grating.
Second, if he is elected I hope you a right and I am wrong. |
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Titus2
Joined: 06 Sep 2015
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Trump is exposing an intra-elite, or intra-oligarch rivalry. It is an interesting time. The Koch's moving against neo-cons, Theil ruining Gawker and Trump's "America First" is just the start. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| Titus2 wrote: |
| Trump is exposing an intra-elite, or intra-oligarch rivalry. It is an interesting time. The Koch's moving against neo-cons, Theil ruining Gawker and Trump's "America First" is just the start. |
Why do you think this is a new phenomenon, or that it is Trump's doing? It's hardly like the American 'elite' have ever been a true monolith. The way you project meaning and your fantasies on Trump's sloganeering is no different than those people who did that for Hope and change. Libertarians have never liked neocons, the kicks and others have always funded institutes that talk about Atlas Shrugged and non-intervention. I don't get the need to connect these disparate dots to Trump. |
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Titus2
Joined: 06 Sep 2015
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| Titus2 wrote: |
| Trump is exposing an intra-elite, or intra-oligarch rivalry. It is an interesting time. The Koch's moving against neo-cons, Theil ruining Gawker and Trump's "America First" is just the start. |
Why do you think this is a new phenomenon, or that it is Trump's doing? It's hardly like the American 'elite' have ever been a true monolith. The way you project meaning and your fantasies on Trump's sloganeering is no different than those people who did that for Hope and change. Libertarians have never liked neocons, the kicks and others have always funded institutes that talk about Atlas Shrugged and non-intervention. I don't get the need to connect these disparate dots to Trump. |
I do not believe I said he was creating but that he is exposing. To be more clear, his aggression is encouraging aggression. He is having an enormous impact. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| Titus2 wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Titus2 wrote: |
| Trump is exposing an intra-elite, or intra-oligarch rivalry. It is an interesting time. The Koch's moving against neo-cons, Theil ruining Gawker and Trump's "America First" is just the start. |
Why do you think this is a new phenomenon, or that it is Trump's doing? It's hardly like the American 'elite' have ever been a true monolith. The way you project meaning and your fantasies on Trump's sloganeering is no different than those people who did that for Hope and change. Libertarians have never liked neocons, the kicks and others have always funded institutes that talk about Atlas Shrugged and non-intervention. I don't get the need to connect these disparate dots to Trump. |
I do not believe I said he was creating but that he is exposing. To be more clear, his aggression is encouraging aggression. He is having an enormous impact. |
Ok, well then that is undoubtedly true. Bernie as well, but in different ways on the other side. Interesting times, for better or worse. I despise Clinton, and nothing will convince me to take Trump seriously, or libertarians for that matter. |
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