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shawner88
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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 Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| The internet and the blog culture has made Korea more accessible to so many new people that the supply is outstripping the demand, meaning good jobs are harder to come by and others are going down the tubes.. |
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fidel
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Location: North Shore NZ
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| Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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Well it's a two year contract and after that I'm leaving , so whatever happens in 2007 won't affect me.
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| What do you think will happen when all of the teachers with good qualifications and previous Korean secondary education experience leave the Kyonggi jobs and flood the market looking for jobs in Seoul? |
I respectfully suggest that those teachers in kyeonggi do such as yourself, are there for the precise reason that high school positions aren't available in Seoul yet in large numbers, otherwise I'm sure many of you would rather be working in Seoul anyways. The flood of experienced teachers won't in any way, shape or form, affect those teachers re-contracting a further year. The only effect I foresee will be in an increase in applicants for advertised positions.
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| History has shown that your situation doesn't look rosey, either |
To which history are you referring to? Do you know my personal history?
Who are you? Municiple government history has shown that Seoul is a leader and not a follower. Schools especially in Gangnam are trying to improve their education not debase it with syphocants with no ability. The Gyeonggi provincal board of education or local government has taken it upon themselves to cut costs. There is no indication that anyone else will follow their mis-guided policies. As I mentioned earlier I signed on Friday a two year contract with the same conditions as this year and an increase in salary. In a week and a half I start my 9 week vacation and look forward to similiar length every winter until I leave. . |
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fidel
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Location: North Shore NZ
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| Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| argue for higher pay, and keep your hours the same |
Something to add. Unlike you I didn't have to argue with anyone regarding my working conditions, merely stated what I wanted , bugged them for several weeks to get their act together to give me the new contract, then signed it. |
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Daechidong Waygookin
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: No Longer on Dave's. Ive quit.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| fidel wrote: |
To which history are you referring to? Do you know my personal history?
Who are you? Municiple government history has shown that Seoul is a leader and not a follower. Schools especially in Gangnam are trying to improve their education not debase it with syphocants with no ability. . |
From what I have gathered from my hiring process and in my conversation with officials in the Seoul government system, this is true. Seoul does not want to debase their system, especially since in many districts it is a new system. As for cutting costs, this may be a kyeonggi-do priority, it sure isnt a priority in some of the districts in Seoul, especially Gangnam which probably has more money than all of Kyeonggi- do. Cutting costs in Gangnam isnt a priority when it comes to a few contracts. Are you seriously saying that Kangnam is sweating over a few hundred thousand won a month of my salary? They could have placed me in a craphole apartment, thats for sure. I wasnt expecting to be living in a place that cost them 30-40 million won key money and a million won a month in rent. From the get go, I have seen nothing but professionalism from them. They go beyond the "call of duty". And with what fidel has stated, I really dont see the same trend as in Kyeonggi-do.
Derrek, you do sound very very bitter. I guess it was your mistake to sign with Kyeongi-do. |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Daechidong Waygookin wrote: |
| fidel wrote: |
To which history are you referring to? Do you know my personal history?
Who are you? Municiple government history has shown that Seoul is a leader and not a follower. Schools especially in Gangnam are trying to improve their education not debase it with syphocants with no ability. . |
From what I have gathered from my hiring process and in my conversation with officials in the Seoul government system, this is true. Seoul does not want to debase their system, especially since in many districts it is a new system. As for cutting costs, this may be a kyeonggi-do priority, it sure isnt a priority in some of the districts in Seoul, especially Gangnam which probably has more money than all of Kyeonggi- do. Cutting costs in Gangnam isnt a priority when it comes to a few contracts. Are you seriously saying that Kangnam is sweating over a few hundred thousand won a month of my salary? They could have placed me in a craphole apartment, thats for sure. I wasnt expecting to be living in a place that cost them 30-40 million won key money and a million won a month in rent. From the get go, I have seen nothing but professionalism from them. They go beyond the "call of duty". And with what fidel has stated, I really dont see the same trend as in Kyeonggi-do.
Derrek, you do sound very very bitter. I guess it was your mistake to sign with Kyeongi-do. |
I'm just saying -- enjoy it while it lasts.
Seriously. I think CMG would join me in this statement.
By the way, I worked in Seoul for 2 years. It's dirty, crowded, and still there if I need to go there. It takes me 25 minutes to Hannam-Dong by bus most hours of the day. Fourty minutes by Subway to Kangnam.
A lot of Seoul's "elite" are leaving Kangnam. Do you know where the are moving? Places like Bundang, which is in Kyonngi-do.
Please don't imply that you're special because you work in Kangnam. I've been in Korea too long to think that's very exciting, or to assume that you are in any way "special" because you teach there. |
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fidel
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Location: North Shore NZ
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| Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with you Derreck, Kangnam is overrated, it looks pretty much like the rest of Seoul, baring the wider roads, cleanliness, and general all round tidiness. Nothing to boast about however. Bundang is nice, and I also like Anyang. Home is where you make it.
Back to the issue. Seoul is a different province and as such they have their own policies. What they are doing in Gyeonggi Do, is as far as I know, currently only a Gyeonggi only policy. No evidence suggests that it will spread, however who am I to say. Predicting the future is difficult and the only people that really know are the policy makers. I'm lucky that I'm secure in my job, until I leave Korea, however I sympathise with you all who aren't. |
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fidel
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Location: North Shore NZ
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| Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| A lot of Seoul's "elite" are leaving Kangnam |
Sorry forgot to ask. And they are....? |
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Daechidong Waygookin
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: No Longer on Dave's. Ive quit.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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Im not implying Im special because I work in Kangnam. I am saying that Kangnam is different than Kyeonggi-do. The imnpression I got from my conversations with the officials in kangnam is that they are trying to IMPROVE the system they have started here, not save a few million won on English teachers. I see the opposite. I see them doing MORE than anyone would expect of them to create an armosphere of professionalism. Professionalism fosters professionalism. An example. The people who employ me will spend a few million dolars on a new parking garage at my school next year. Do you think they are sweating a few hundred thousand won of my salary? Be serious.
I dont know what you are on about "elite" leaving kangnam. Some may be going to Bundang, but Kangnam will still be one of the major, if not the most important business districts in Seoul. Teheran-ro is a mecca for huge corproations, Bundang will not take that torch. Also, a stroll through Apgujeong, Daechi-dong, etc will quickly cure you of your dellusion. |
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crazylemongirl
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Location: almost there...
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 6:01 am Post subject: |
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| Who'd wanna live in kyeonggi anyway? |
I like my area of gyeonggi because it's got a real small town feel to the place, friendly locals, and lots of walking tracks along the river and mountains all very close by. I'm close to seoul when I want to go there, but away from the big city life style. But that's not the point.
Derrek and I are just telling others of our experience. He was employed direct by a private school but the cash came from gyeonggi do. I'm in a programme that is run and funded by the city government in a public school (infact it's identical to the one gangnam).
We're just saying things change here very quickly even in the public sector. Also that the numbers willing to sign these contracts are driving down the conditions. It's happening here in gyeonggi do, and there is a chance that it will happen in other areas when cash gets tight or the powers that be decide that they want to start a new grand project and starts cutting corners. |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| Daechidong Waygookin wrote: |
Im not implying Im special because I work in Kangnam. I am saying that Kangnam is different than Kyeonggi-do. The imnpression I got from my conversations with the officials in kangnam is that they are trying to IMPROVE the system they have started here, not save a few million won on English teachers. I see the opposite. I see them doing MORE than anyone would expect of them to create an armosphere of professionalism. Professionalism fosters professionalism. An example. The people who employ me will spend a few million dolars on a new parking garage at my school next year. Do you think they are sweating a few hundred thousand won of my salary? Be serious.
I dont know what you are on about "elite" leaving kangnam. Some may be going to Bundang, but Kangnam will still be one of the major, if not the most important business districts in Seoul. Teheran-ro is a mecca for huge corproations, Bundang will not take that torch. Also, a stroll through Apgujeong, Daechi-dong, etc will quickly cure you of your dellusion. |
I thought we were talking about where people lived and sent their kids to school -- not where corporations are??? |
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fidel
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Location: North Shore NZ
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Derrek and I are just telling others of our experience |
As am I. This thread isn't entirely a Gyeonggi Do issue, rather potentially concerns all those employed in the high school system.
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| We're just saying things change here very quickly even in the public sector |
No, the public sector of government is highly resistant to change and like to keep the status quo in as far as possible.
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| Also that the numbers willing to sign these contracts are driving down the conditions. It's happening here in gyeonggi do, and there is a chance that it will happen in other areas when cash gets tight or the powers that be decide that they want to start a new grand project and starts cutting corners. |
You were willing to sign your contract, as was Derrick. You make it sound as if it's a sacrifice to be working in the public system. Those who sign the new contracts aren't driving down the conditions as that has already been done.
Of course there is a chance, there is a chance that the earth might be struck by a meteor. However, if you can give me any statistical historical references in regards to public school policy in Gyeonggi do, having an effect on the rest of the country, I might be more inclined to take your predictions seriously.
So far, all we can surmise from the replies so far are;
-Gyeonggi Do has initiated a human resource policy for foreign instructors.
-This implication is reduced vacation time and the possible requirement of a TESOL/CELTA language teaching certificate.
- In as far as we know this hasn't extended to other districts
If other teachers in other provinces could reply we might be able to gain a clearer picture. |
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Daechidong Waygookin
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: No Longer on Dave's. Ive quit.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Derrek wrote: |
| Daechidong Waygookin wrote: |
Im not implying Im special because I work in Kangnam. I am saying that Kangnam is different than Kyeonggi-do. The imnpression I got from my conversations with the officials in kangnam is that they are trying to IMPROVE the system they have started here, not save a few million won on English teachers. I see the opposite. I see them doing MORE than anyone would expect of them to create an armosphere of professionalism. Professionalism fosters professionalism. An example. The people who employ me will spend a few million dolars on a new parking garage at my school next year. Do you think they are sweating a few hundred thousand won of my salary? Be serious.
I dont know what you are on about "elite" leaving kangnam. Some may be going to Bundang, but Kangnam will still be one of the major, if not the most important business districts in Seoul. Teheran-ro is a mecca for huge corproations, Bundang will not take that torch. Also, a stroll through Apgujeong, Daechi-dong, etc will quickly cure you of your dellusion. |
I thought we were talking about where people lived and sent their kids to school -- not where corporations are??? |
Taxes. Corporations pay taxes. We are paid from the tax money collected. |
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crazylemongirl
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Location: almost there...
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| No, the public sector of government is highly resistant to change and like to keep the status quo in as far as possible. |
Not always, policy directions can change depending on who is holding the purse strings and their particular goals. My city government last year wanted to employ all these foreign teachers, but they've had some problems and now instead of a centralised programme they are develoving it back to the schools. Now the city government is all about building one of those english towns.
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| You were willing to sign your contract, as was Derrick. You make it sound as if it's a sacrifice to be working in the public system. Those who sign the new contracts aren't driving down the conditions as that has already been done. |
We signed contracts before these changes came through. This is a recent development. The reason that derrek is kicking up such a fuss is that he wants to extend his stay at his school and rather than keep him on the same conditions salary x and vacation x, the school is being forced to cut the salary and vacation time.by gyeonggi do.
Money wise and time wise working in the public sector is starting to become a sacrafice. I got better salary offers in the private sector but I got some good vacation time. Also class sizes are smaller in the private sector. On the positive I never get jerked around with money.
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| Of course there is a chance, there is a chance that the earth might be struck by a meteor. However, if you can give me any statistical historical references in regards to public school policy in Gyeonggi do, having an effect on the rest of the country, I might be more inclined to take your predictions seriously. |
The laws of supply and demand seem to becoming into play here. They've seen that can hire teachers for less pay and worse conditions so that they can cut costs or employ more teachers. Or they may decide that they have some new grand project to do.
We're just saying that there is always a chance that things can go pear shaped, and infact do even in the public sector. |
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fidel
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Location: North Shore NZ
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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I understand your concerns and realize that you signed before the new contracts came into play.
I also know that things can go pear shaped and that nothing is certain in this world. I know for one that I wouldn't re-contract at a school that reduced my vacation time to practically nil, as all the effort involved in teaching at a public school must be properly compensated, and vacation time is essential for teachers to rejuvenate.
The local government/education authorities are so shortsighted that it defies belief. |
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fidel
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Location: North Shore NZ
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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So anyone got an update about their new high school contracts.
Here's a couple, in gyeonggi do that was posted today, both with pretty good conditions.
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Salary : Start 2.0 Millon Won
* Holidays : Full Paid Summer & Winter vacation (At least 40 days each)
* Class : 21 Hour(50 min)/week
* Working Days : 5(Mon to Fri)
* Working Hours : 08:10 to 17:00 (Paid over time work - \25,000/h) |
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Tae Sung High School in Yongin is looking for 2 native
speakers as conversation instructors commencing at the end of
February or the beginning of March, 2005.
Yongin is a city near Seoul that offers many natural attractions.
It is about 45 minutes away from downtown Seoul. It's also where
Everland is located (the biggest amusement park in Korea).
The salary: 2 Million Won a month plus an extra 40,000 won per class
you teach on Thursdays from 6:00pm to 7:30pm.
Hours: 8:00am to 4:30pm Monday - Friday;
20 classes x 45 minutes
During the working hours, you will only have 4 classes of 45 minutes a day
for a total of twenty classes a week.
Vacation: You are guaranteed six weeks of vacations, 4 weeks in
the winter and 2 weeks in the summer. (However, if you are familiar
working in a middle or high school that period ends up being much
longer.)
You of course get all other national holidays.
There's a severance pay, and they provide return plane ticket to
those teachers leaving the country. |
Last edited by fidel on Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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