Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Rteacher]

I think that great envy lies at the root of real atheism. Big "scientists" and their cohorts want to lord it over the universe and plunder all its wealth (which ultimately all belongs to God...) It goes beyong just disbelief in the existence of God - they accept many things in their big theories which they can not experimentally verify (eg: imaginary numbers) but for God's existence they strictly require physical evidence... Real atheistic demons obviously prefer to keep God out of the picture, and if He did show up they would still be against him and try to kill Him. (Fortunately, that is not humanly possible, but out of lack of concern for life they'll probably end up destroying many living beings with their weapons of mass destruction...)

[Gorgias]

Where is God?

"All that you have seen is God," and "God is the unseen cause of all things." The former is from Sophocles' "Women of Trachis," the later I believe was in Hume.

"You might as well pray to the rocks and the waves." Aeschylus, maybe. Those three quotes sum up my feelings on this topic.

Interesting essay by the way.

[forgesteel]

[forgesteel]

[Red]

Prove that god doesnt exist? How to you prove that something that doesnt exist isnt there? A tricky bit of questioning that gives the religious some sort of breathing room. But when one applies reason to the process, and we take note of how the evidence of god is non-existant, one would have to conclude that the reason for god's apearent non-existence is as simple as god not existing.

You know, simplest answer is usualy the correct one, and all of that. "I believe god doesnt esist" does not factor into it at all. It is not a matter of belief, but simply a matter of taking the observed evidence and applying it.

However, evidence does exist that suggests god is a made up concept, and religious beliefs are nothing more than social conditioning/ control that stems from the fear of death. In the past, this has been useful, but our culture has grown to the point where we can conceive of morality without the need of a divine being waiting to punish us for eternity.

Long and the short of it: If the religious wants to prove that there is a divine being controlling us all, then proof is what they'll have to provide. It's not up to the non-believer to prove anything. Proving the nonexistent is sort of impossible.

Proving that something exists, isnt. The burden of proof is on the believer.

[Rteacher]

What God died and made you the supreme judge of evidentiary standards? Oh, excuse me - Science is god. Are scientists' senses - and their instruments not limited? Are they not subject to illusion, tendency to make mistakes and tendency to cheat - like all mundane humans? How can they detect a being that's unlimitedly and inconceivably powerful - unless that Supreme Being agrees to reveal Himself? ... God , as the supreme person, reserves the right not to reveal Himself to those or are envious (and have challenging attitudes ...)

[Summer Wine]

[Summer Wine]

"bump", oops, sorry, I didn't mean to hit you.

[Deconstructor]

Nietzsche said once, "Alas, I fear we still believe in God because we still believe in grammar"-after all grammar is nothing if it isn't a simple correspondence between language and the world it represents. THE LIGHTNING STRIKES. What is behind the word "lightning", behind the word "strikes"? Nothing but metaphors for a process that is still more metaphors. Displacement! There is nothing but empty words creating and veiling a world chaotic, illusory and incomprehensible.

Derrida argued in Of Grammatology that "the age of the sign is theological," that is, all philosophical discourse on language and with language does nothing but create, as well as stabilize, meaning and anchor it in principles that demand immunity from critique: Man, God, nature, ideas, and history are nothing but passwords for an act called "logocentrism": The profound need toward an order of meaning, the above words conceived in existing in themselves as foundations, the profound need to utter the final word. But the word GOD is just another word in the web of language. It operates in conjunction with all the other words.

As Derrida wrote:

"...[T]he whole history of the concept of structure... must be thought of as a series of substitutions of center for center, as a linked chain of determinations of the center. Successively, and in a regulated fashion, the center receives different forms or names. The history of metaphysics, like the history of the West, is the history of these metaphors and metonymies. Its matrix... is the determination of being as presence in all the senses of this word. It would be possible to show that all the names related to fundamentals, to principles, or to the I center have always designated the constant of a presence-eidos, arche, telos, energeia, ousia (essence, existence, substance, subject) aletheia [truth], transcendentality, consciousness, or conscience, God, man, and so forth."

Let us move away from certitude if only for the sake of honesty.

Besides, if all of us are horrible wrong, the omniscient and omnipotent God must've known the ambiguity and impossibility of His own existence, and since He is an honest dude, He must've willed Himself out of existence.

[funplanet]

Where is God? Hopefully, He's right there in your heart

[Rteacher]

I think that if you read too many books presenting many different speculative philosophies it leads you to formulate your own speculative philosophy - or else simply conclude that nothing is supreme (or that illusion is supreme).

If you experience too much cheating religion and/or philosophy it also leads one to become very cynical and atheistic.

Like the above poster was suggesting, it's best to accept what rings true in your own heart ...

[Deconstructor]

[susy]

When you believe in God it does not suffice to just get angry at God when things dont go your way, you have to walk close to him through the difficult and the rough and the good.

If you cant see God`s works now that means you have not looked.

God is still working, but man prefers to let himself try and be God. then when things go wrong.... man blames God. Do you ever give God a chance to work or show himself to you?>

God is not just a puppet that you can call out when things are tough. he works in different ways.

In fact it is a miracle that i am still alive today. God cares about each one that is true, but he will not be treated as a fool. he tries, he tests us and he lets us walk through fire. Sometimes he will take you right to the edge until you will surrender to him.

why pain and suffering?
If there was no pain. We would not be here ; consider a leprosy patient- they have no feelings their nervous system is damaged. this is why so many leprosy patients have lost limbs and parts of their body - they feel no pain. leprosy patients have been known to take out their own eyes, cut off their limbs etc because they cant feel any pain.

pain and suffering tell us that we are in danger or something needs to be done to prevent further damage.

every human being is a miracle - science can never copy the pattern of the human being, it is too complicated and perfectly designed. - How then can you say there is no God - no greater being.

It is man himself that has fallen and created al the destruction right from the beginning - Not God, - why would God wreck his own perfect creation.

[Rteacher]

You've got to search for truth yourself - books are obviously very powerful in shaping our thoughts. I'm sure you probably know that I'm an older guy who was in college (the first time) during the Viet Nam war (class of '71) period when there was a lot of influx of "eastern thought", "consciousness expanding" pychedelia, bohemian and communal living, etc. I was into all that plus I read all kinds of "existential" philosohers like Sartre and Camus (and that other guy who was a thief - whose name escapes me...) I also read a lot of impersonalist and Zen literature (Alan Watts books were among my favorites) I frankly think that the existentialist and impersonalist books screwed me up more than all the drugs I was taking. I lost motivation to go to classes, stayed up all night many nights in a row, and often contemplated suicide. Probably my sense of humor kept me going as I continued seeking truth especially through art and music (... hashish, LSD, etc.)

Anyway, the first time I bought Bhagavad-gita As It Is and tried reading it (admittedly difficult because I was almost always stoned) I was absolutely impressed with how amazingly profound the philosophy was. I came to realize that it was superior to any of my wild speculations on the meaning of existence and was more illuminating than all the other stuff I'd ever read or studied. I found out that although there are nearly 600 different versions of Bhagavad-gita in English, practically none of them - including Gandhi's - has the spiritual potency to make westerners devotees of Krishna. Transcendental knowledge can only be delivered by pure devotee spiritual masters who are coming in disciplic succession and have no material motivation or tendency to cheat. There are many bogus spiritualists - especially coming out of India - and also some who are envious of the only pure devotee who successfully spread Krishna Consciousness (and transplanted Vedic culture) in the West - His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. I sincerely recommend checking out some of his books. There are a number of webites offering free on-line books and tapes including www.krishna.com and www.krishna.org [/i]

[Sooke]

Where's God?

I don't know where he is now, but I hooked him up with a dimebag two weeks ago. Still hasn't paid me.